I'm looking to streamline my hunting wardrobe while at the same time upgrading it a bit.

I have a lightweight polyester black Cinch jacket ( they are very popular at the moment ) that I've had for a few years. I have always been impressed with it because of its lightweight, its wind and water repellency and it is also quite warm. I started thinking if I could find a camo jacket in the same style/material it would be about a perfect hunting jacket for the style of hunting I do.


So i started looking at First lite and Sitka a bit ( I will admit I shy away from Kuiu, i think their colors are ugly and along with sitka, are a little too "trendy" for my taste) and I really like first lite system over Sitka....the Sitka line is overwhelming.


From what i can find, i think either the First lite Guide Pant and Jacket are what is most similar to the Cinch Jacket Material or maybe the Soft Shell Jacket.


What i'm looking for is a jacket and pant system that isn't bulky but is warm...Something i can take on October Elk Hunts that is warm, water resistant and comfortable yet won't bog me down with weight or will freeze me up when i stop walking.


My hunting wardrobe is pretty hodgepodge, i have a mix of Magellan cotton pants, one polyester pants that are meant to be worn over the cotton pants (these actually work excellent but are a tad bulky when you add the other pair of pants ) and a variety of cotton shirts. A lot of times i actually hunt in a hoodie. My baselayers are either northface or underarmour ( won't ever skimp on baselayers again ) but the rest of my attire is a mutt mix.

The only good gear i have ever bought was a under armour storm jacket for waterfowl hunting ( another very lightweight but warm jacket ) and a Cabelas Zone jacket ( great jacket but its bulky ).


Anyone have any suggestions on firstlite gear? Am i on the right track with the Guide Jacket and Pant combo being comparable to the cinch jacket style? i don't have any way of trying this stuff on other than to order it and return what i don't like

Just gonna throw this out there, a lot of folks that frequent rokslide that run the guide set from first life find the axis line from Kuiu similar if not better. That is a forum that you would find more info about clothing lines than here, imo. First lite is good gear, I personally have no experience with it. I am not a fanboy of any specific brand, but have plenty of sitka, Kuiu and Cabela’s brand stuff. I have found the more expensive gear is worth the cost in weight savings and functionality. The technical gear made by these companies is made for specific functions, but you can’t favor many of the pieces to multiple functions.

I think I have 8 pairs of Prana Zion stretch pants. Pretty much all I wear. Grey is my favorite color.

Might look at the Stone Glacier De Havilland it’s would be a heavier fabric with hip vents

Geez, guessing here the Nato Desert Night Camo available to almost any surplus store is not an option. That an a vest or an insert is all I wear.

The Midway brand stuff is quality without the price. Pants for $50 instead of $300 and jackets for $80 vs $400.

some like good equipment. I am currently waiting on FirstLite to restock for the spring. I too have several pairs of Prana Zions, good all around hunting and hiking.

50% cotton. Hard to get warm if you get wet a few miles and few hundred foot of elevation change from the truck

i'm not familiar with midway.


Is it similar to Sitka/Kuiu/Firstlite?

Not what you are looking for

Nope, it’s not.

Appreciate the link though

Best cold weather stuff I have ever bought has been Field and Stream's "carbon activated" cold weather pants and their 3 in 1 Cold weather jacket. Wearing either, I can be in a t shirt and skivies and still be plenty warm. With those pants, I cannot and do not wear long johns as the sweating will occur and with the jacket, one single layer underneath is plenty good. Think they are rated to 0 degrees Farenheit..

I have the First Lite clothing. Nothing but good things to say about their clothing line. I hunt in NE Texas, temperatures range from 60s in Nov. to 30s in late Dec.-Jan. I wear their Merino under layers with only a wool shirt. I never get cold.

Sanctuary Insulated Bib in First Lite Fusion XL
Woodbury Insulated Jacket in First Lite Fusion XL
Merino Brimmed Beanie in First Lite Fusion LG
Mountain Athlete Cold Weather Sock in Black Olive LGM's
Merino-X Kiln Midweight 250 QZ in Black XLM's
Merino-X Kiln Midweight 250 Boot Top Bottom in Black LG

Just a heads up, you can call Sitka and they will try to get you the right set up. I agree that they have a lot of options and it can be overwhelming, but use their customer service!

I've worn it in the Hard Scrabble area of Utah and in the Mountains between the Greys and Snake rivers in Wyoming. Wind, snow and no problems. Ran into a lil' blizzard in Utah and, once again, no problems. I might have been bred for cold though. Some of you guys might need something better.

Daddy always said, "You could bottle horse pee and if the right people said it was good, you couldn't make 'nuff of it.". Consider taking some Perrier to keep hydrated & strap a pillow to your back pack.

You want some merino under layers and then pick a brand and camp pattern you like for pants and jackets.
The new materials do not absorb water near as much as cotton and dry very fast. They breath better than older camo and allow you to vent your perspiration out.
I think a good puffy jacket and various under layers like a fleece 1/4 zip and a vest help with the cold tremendously.
You want a jacket that you can fit the under layers under but still be able to move and shoot with them on.
I would get at least 2 different weights of pants, lightweight and a fleece backed. One for cooler weather hunting and the fleece backed for cold weather.

We always wore King Of the Mountain for cold weather hunting until we found Core4element many years ago. They are out of business now.
The materials were a game changer, quiet, lightweight and warm. The camo patterns looked almost too light and open but work very well for us up here now.
My KOM coat is my go to in frigid weather but the Core4 is what we wear for almost everything hunting now. The pattern actually is perfect for our hunting all over the state.

Find a pattern that helps break up your outline and does not blob out as a dark figure at a distance. Elk and pronghorn can pick out anything that looks out of place in open settings.
Lots of good camo hunting clothing out there now and some solid colors that actually work well too in the forest.

Go over to Rokslide ,as stated ,and look at what folks say about various brands. That forum is very equipment oriented .

Core4 has been replaced by Black Ovis own brand( think it’s same designs etc) found one Camofire a bunch. Great option

Sad and scary that you would mock people for buying similar priced synthetic options instead of cotton.

"Sad and scary that you would mock people for buying similar priced synthetic options instead of cotton." Good enuff to meet military specifications and then sold rather inexpensively at surplus stores. Some just feel they need to throw money at an issue. I still remember the high priced hunters we would pick up at the airport and then drive to South Texas. Some could really hunt. Most could not. They all looked very good.

Look at Sixsite

I don't know, he sounds like he really knows his stuff.

That’s point It’s a forum not everyone has equal level of experience.

Grand scheme cotton in high country is just all round bad idea when the safer alternative is same price. Directly Advising it over a same price option and then taunting people is idiotic and reckless. He has zero idea if this is a truck hunt or backpack hunt, float hunt etc.

99% of people who recreate in the backcountry will never have an issue, but that 1% that do, die for one of three reasons a fall, hyperthermia or heat exhaustion. Hyperthermia is the Easiest to combat, with correct layering textiles and basic field craft.

I don’t care if he hiked 20 miles in to the Frank in Nov, or if he is eating SERE apple right now, all his resume went out the window with his comments.

There are no moose in STX, txtrophy85 is specifically asking about western hunting and his moose hunt this year.

Military specs very greatly especially in realm of fire retardant clothing.... mission specific gear changes

totally agree

So I have limited experience with elk hunting(compared to some here) but will tell you what I know about October hunting...

I have done Colorado a few times now and had one trip that was 60-70+ the entire time, one trip that I don’t think we got over 40 or 50, and one that was a mix of both. Morale of the story prepare for everything.

For the pants I keep it simple, couple of base pairs with different warmth’s and zion (or equivalent) or Kuiu attack pants. For the top a simple base layer then 2-3 different warmth options depending on circumstances and an outer jacket if needed. I focus on upper body options the most as that is the most user specific. Do you like pockets, can you shoulder a gun, what style do you like etc.

Focus on value in options. I found a 25$ insulated jacket that keeps me warm and has a bit of water resistance. Not great for rains but it does it’s job in light rain keeping me warm. You don’t need to buy everything name brand. To me the top priority is dry followed by warm, figure out what makes sense from there. You are better off with a few quality pieces over a lot of mid tier pieces.

The Clown is correct about the cotton. I do prefer that there Desert Night Camo jacket down here. There are all kinds of layers available and I do utilize them.

My issue with some of the things I have seen is just too much. While actively hunting, my body generates a lot of heat. When in the mountains, much of my hunting was on horseback and then on foot. I did wear long undies, merino wool socks, a flannel lined shirt and waterproof bibs. That would have been covered up with a green Columbia rain slicker and, of course, a hat. When sitting, glassing, resting or whatever (and especially when windy), I would pull on a neck gaiter over my head and down to below my chin. I could not walk with one on. If I needed to regulate my heat, the easiest way was to pull off my hat.

The only thing costly were the boots (400 grams of thinsulate) I wore. With my Eastman's subscription, I get to see tons of advertising from some of the higher priced, higher performing camo providers out there. I am certain it is all good stuff. I have been fortunate and can afford almost anything I desire. There is nothing wrong with buying the very top of the market. Nothing. I just don't normally do it. I had a tent collapse on me after a twelve inch snow during the night. That sucked, but I never got cold. Had none of the fancy stuff.

In addition to 1st hand experiences with all jazzed up paid hunters, I remember Johnson's favorite story and maybe it left me further jaded. An old buck went to take a nap and told a younger buck to be on lookout for hunters and other predators. Sometime during the nap, the younger buck spotted a hunter clad in expensive, state of the art camo with a nice, new, scoped rifle. He awakened the old buck and pointed him out. The older buck felt that hunter was nothing to be afraid of and admonished the younger buck for having awakened him. When the older buck went back to sleep and awoke again, he could see an old man moseying around in red & black flannel with a rusty, open sighted 30-30. The young buck noted he saw this hunter, but and considering his appearance, he was not concerned about him. The older buck immediately took off. When the younger buck caught up with him, the older buck got into him for not having pointed out what, to him, was a such a dangerous adversary.

I would not want anyone to put a trip at risk due to not being appropriately prepared. There was a lot game killed prior to the explosion of all this new gear.

^^^Sounds like good middle ground(or an olive branch).

We are same page, you are correct you don’t have to have sitka or Kuiu, a lot of good options like Columbia, Mountain hardware,Prana, north face, etc out there..

With Kuiu/Sitka/Firstlite/Stone Glacier you are paying premium for features and the best technologies. Although the best may only be 10% better then it’s closet competition that’s 20% less $. It’s kind of like Swaro VS (Maven, Tract, Meopta, Upper end Luppy etc). With that said you know Kuiu Stika etc arent going to be donating to anti hunting groups that Patagonia or North Face might.

I appreciate and well recognize the bino comparison.

I'm not much of a camo guy. My two mainstay's for hunting pants are the Carhartt Ripstop pants, and KUHL Rydr. I just stick to dull colors.


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As others have said, Rokslide would be a great resource for you. They are much more focused on western hunting gear and clothes.

You want some clothes that breath so when you sweat it makes it out to the surface of the fabric to evaporate. You need fabric that will keep you warm when wet and you need a wind blocking layer.
On a western hunt good chance it will be warm during the day and you'll need to take off layers to be comfortable while hiking in. After you hike in and work up a little sweat you'll hit the shade to cool down and rest , your layers will probably go back on in the shade.

Cotton will not keep you warm when wet but it does breath well, and that is a problem when its' chilly. You need material that will not chill you if damp.
When the sun goes down it will get colder fast. If you have on damp cotton clothes hypothermia is a real issue.
It doesn't have to be really cold to get hypothermia.

You don't have to spend a fortune on decent clothes. Look on Camofire and Black Ovis for deals. Might be quite the deals soon if things don'y change in regard to this virus. Last years models are probably on sale now.
You could very well get away with a pair of drab colored pants and camo for your top layers.

I did the same as you 2 years ago and checked out all of the brands mentioned and decided to go with Sitka and I will never look back. I have used it to hunt Colorado and Alaska and it works great. I chose the optifade subalpine which has the most green in it for where I hunt. Also, if you are a veteran or a first responder they offer a good discount for you and their customer service is outstanding. Sitka is a little more expensive but the quality can't be beat!!

They are no longer.

Surplus military fatigues have given me good service for over 50 years. I hunted deer from the Badlands of North Dakota, to the Hill Country of Texas, with Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico in between. Plus quite a few other states. .

You see DC, not all of us spent enough time in SE asia to have permanent crotch rot and jungle foot. Some of us like to have some feeling left in our ballsack after hiking for a few days and sweating in the process. Thats where technical clothing comes into play.
Yes, surplus fatigues/BDU/ACU/whatever initial soup they throw on these days is good tough gear for certain jobs and certain people, but it doesn't breathe well, is constricting to some in places we don't like to be constricted, and if you get them loose enough to not constrict in those places they are so baggy in other places they are almost unwearable.

So to rebut your post, my butt doesn't quite fit into those pants well enough to not have a serious chafing issue after a few miles and that isn't acceptable for me.

I generally agree that the high-end stuff is designed from the ground up for the activity at hand and is likely to be better suited than adapting or re-purposing clothes designed for other uses. I don't own any KUIU or Sitka gear but my SIL worked at Under Armour for three years and I used the family 40% discount to build a couple of good hunting kits. I see a huge difference between that stuff and the stuff I used to hunt in (old Cabela's, RedHead from Bass Pro, the near-canvas stuff from Academy, etc...). Nothing inherently wrong with the old stuff, but the new stuff is lighter, more purposely designed, better. I can only assume that it's the same case with the really high-end stuff.

My only caveat is that all consumer brands rely somewhat on "planned obsolescence" for sales. I just noticed yesterday that KUIU just introduced a new camo scheme that -incidentally- looks like it will be a much better fit for the terrain that I hunt (Central Texas) than their previous camo schemes that are better suited for the Western states terrain/elevation. That caught my attention and made me wonder if I need to treat myself to some new duds before this season (ha, sucker, just what KUIU marketing intended). Brands will continue to push for newer materials, lighter/better/technically-superior because they want us to keep buying gear year after year. That's why companies like Mossy Oak will discontinue camo patterns (have you tried to find the tied-and-true-for-Texas Mossy Oak Brush lately? Impossible). t's no different than what happens with bows. One cam. Two cams. No cams. Elliptical cams. Heilicoidal cams. Cams made of aluminum, titanium, carbon fiber, human cartilage, etc... Anything to create a desire and a belief that you NEED the newest bow. Otherwise, you're sticking with your tried-and-true Fred Bear bow that's killed more deer than CWD and didn't require a home equity loan, and that doesn't work for Matthews, does it? It happens every spring, every endorsed hunter or "brand ambassador" starts posting practice videos on social media with their newest "bow du jour" that is SO much lighter/faster/stiffer/stabler/better than their previous one that one wonders how the heck they were able to hunt with those obsolete (1-yr old) bows before! We all watch those shows where the hunter didn't kill the deer with his bow, he "smoked it with his <insert name of sponsoring brand bow here>! Cue the hard rock music, high-fives and grip-and-grin!

Buy what you can afford, knowing that the quality -and purpose-build- of gear varies pretty dramatically. I've worn surplus multi-cam BDU pants on many hunts but they're not the comfiest or lightest or warmest of pants. I can't justify $300 pants on my budget, but I'm not going to criticize those who can, everybody's different. I will just keep scouring the ads and waiting for a good sale!

Glad this thread got bumped up. I had forgotten that Bobo and Hud had good and lively civil discourse. I think they kissed and made up and maybe a link of sausage was used as an olive branch.

Jus to be fair to anyone buying clothes, camo sells the human on the clothes, not the clothes on the animals...plenty of animals are shot in solid colors or flannel or plaid. Point being, don’t buy based on the newest and greatest camo pattern, buy for fit function and form. Clothes that are technical are just that, technical clothes suited for a purpose. Solid colors have been requested out of these manufacturers and they are listening after losing sales to non-hunting companies that don’t use camo. Why? So people buying can use the clothes for more than just hunting. Good idea. Most of this gear is very practical for things like sitting out in weather for football or baseball games, hiking, etc...places you don’t want to be seen as a GI joe.

So buy for fit form and function, don’t buy for camo pattern.

He won a ribbon!!! who wouldn’t indulge. and it was exceptional

Written word doesn’t always translate the same message. HUD and I where actually on same page. I’m big fan of Prana and Khul pants because you can find them for 50-60 on sale.

Also he doesn’t know it yet, but I’m going to help him put on a sausage making THF get together. Thinking about getting a bunch of kids together to help and learn

^^^If you do this, please send out an invite as I would love to help and see the process. I have never made sausage, I know it isn’t terribly difficult, but much better to learn in good company than by oneself.

100% of my hunting is done from a blind where I am completely concealed so I make sure to dress comfortably. Most of the time that is jeans and a Carhartt.

One of the stupidest posts I have ever read. Obviously someone don't knows about Gold Bond.

While I have a plethora of military utility uniforms and hunt in them occasionally (they fit well), I have found that BDUs/ACUs are too noisy for deer hunting, especially in close quarters with a bow. This is why I've tried to purchase high quality hunting clothing that's quiet and warm during my hunting life. I actually have a set of First Lite Catalyst jacket and pants (R&D discount) being delivered tomorrow and after trying them out, I'll report back to the group.

I guess if all you do is sit in a box and shoot animals from 100 yards away, you can wear whatever you want without any detrimental effect to your hunting success, as long as you stay warm enough. And while I do hunt that way a lot, I also hang out in a lot of trees about 20 yards away from a deer trail or funnel. In those situations, I need the best I can get.

I like to spot and stalk. That's what bipods were built for. Also like to hunt out o' my rack. Scent wafers and slow methodical movement are what its about.

when i'm a bow blind I wear a pair of camo cargo pants from bass pro and a shirt with a hoodie over it.


In a blind you can wear whatever you want for the most part as long as you are warm

A very interesting discussion. When I look at those US-Hunting clothing companies it feels like a bad rip-off. I guess that is the price for the camo pattern they develop. I also don't quite understand the purpose of camo for hunting.

How about traditional hunting clothing, I mean leather? All this stuff they offer is made of plastic, it can't be as good as real cowhide, or?

Camo was originally designed to break up the outline of a person. Depending on pattern it can work pretty well or not well at all. By and large its not necessary for rifle hunting. I like camo because it doesn't stain with blood and dirt like solid color clothes but i wear both.


When bowhunting, you need camo, including gloves and facemask or wear paint.


I've never wore leather clothes but i wouldn't imagine it would breathe too good and would be heavy....we have better materials now

Ive never wore leather clothes either but yesterday at Bucees in Denton I saw a girl with a black tshirt on that said in large print "Kinky as F***" and it was spelled out...... Blue hair and tatoos too so maybe shes the leather type........

I know what Camo is made for, we invented it lol (didn’t help though)
Unfortunately is Bowhunting illegal in Germany so I can’t comment that need, but I have doubts.
Every animal has different Vision, every landscape is different, and so it’s nearly impossible to have the
Right Camo for the game and landscape.

Surplus is great for many things and I like it for hiking, work around the house or play with the dog. But
Getting in the Bush or deep in the forest there isn’t anything that protects better then leather-
It may need maintenance but other then that, It’s awesome.



I don’t think that’s quite the same leather clothing /
But now I think I should spend more time in Bucees.

Elmer always utilized red and clack checkered stuff - thinking it was more effective than most realize

Deer can't see the red color spectrum, so yeah, pretty efficient.

It’s about breaking up the silhouette....and lots of patterns are effective at doing it.

Trust me camo certainly helps you out, pattern is less important as long as you have a pattern. Lots of animals have camo; snakes, ducks, axis deer, bobcats etc. to help them hide.

For general rifle hunting it’s less important. I’ve shot a lot of animals wearing a silver belly resistol hat, but I’m not gonna sit here and tell you that they didn’t see me, they certainly did, but it was too late for them

Animals have no camo to hide, they use a pattern for sending signals to either the same species or to predators for example. Most animals use other senses then eyesight.
Look at the most common thing in nature: Brown and Green. Wearing brown Pants and a Green top will make you for the most game not recognizable- except for your scent, noise, movement of course.

Best camo Pattern in the world: silence and odor control

Got the first-lite gear in.

When with the catalyst jacket and pants and the corrugate pants.

Pants were sized accordingly but I sent them back for a size smaller as they were loose in the seat and thigh. Jacket fit pretty dang good, tighter in the wrist and forearm than expected but will be great with layers. Love the hood.


Material is much lighter than expected given the temp range they are rated for.

I’ll let you know how it performs in Colorado, Canada looks to be off this year

I've always been a straight Academy Magellan hunter...always good enough and the Pintal Jacket and Bibs are quite nice for the price. But as I'm wanting to take some trips north, I'm slowly buying more Sitka level quality. Only have the under layers right now, and I bought their waders on sale at end of last season (have not tried yet) You will find something you like. The key to my success is having the right base layers, good rain/moisture preventer and good gloves and socks.(redhead socks are great)

Do they make youth sizes?

Get the prana zion stretch. 10x more durable for 1/2 the cost

No, they don’t.

They have a good size chart but as I’ve found it’s not exactly accurate even when going off their specs.

Review time:

Spent 10 days in Colorado with my new gear.

Did not wear the catalyst pants but did wear the corrugate guide pants and gosh dang, those things are nice! Super comfy, worn with base layer it kept me warm in temps down to 30 degrees yes did not burn me up in temps up to 80’s.

On price, they would be a bit much for Texas whitetail hunting imo but if you want to spring for them you won’t be disappointed. IMO would be great digs for west Texas mule deer/aoudad style hunting.

I bought the Klamath grid fleece pullover as well. Designed as a mid layer, either stand alone or a central layer of the system. A bit baggy for my taste but if you wear a base layer and a t-shirt underneath you will need the room. This piece is quite as heck but I don’t care for the quarter zip....don’t know why it’s highly functional but it isn’t athletic cut and I don’t like it.

Catalyst jacket is awesome. Several mornings I had baselayer, shirt, quarter zip and jacket and I was toasty but did not feel bulky. Like all the clothing In their line it’s designed to be worn as a system with multiple layers so it will be a little roomy if used as a stand alone but with layers underneath it’s a perfect fit. Really liked the integrated hood, it looks goofy but works like a charm.


Another good purchase is the Kenetrek mountain guide boots. Once I broke them in they are extremely comfortable, tough as nails and a joy to wear. Again, would be very much overkill for Texas whitetail hunting but for western hunts it’s one I definitely recommend

Thanks for the update. I cannot wait to try out my Catalyst stuff this fall.

Not surprised you are happy with your purchases.
Many talk down the expensive and trendy camo out today but the materials are game changers.
Do you need it to sit a blind, no but western hunting is not sitting in a blind.
My Core4elemet works great down south and the patterns work equally well.
Carhartt and cotton are great for Texas hunting but for elk and mule deer you need quite and warm clothes. Cotton could lead to hypothermia and death.

It should last you many years if taken care of, just wait til you get it out in the whitetail woods. It will be quieter than any other camp you have.

Hope you had an enjoyable hunt.