I talked to technical support and made my case saying how phenomenal the cartridge is, and that the only way to get brass is fire forming or hydro forming. I know Hornady is not afraid to introduce new things, best I've seen out of any company out there the last 5 years. They make .280 A.I. brass, they even brought back the 7mm WSM. They recently invented the 6.5 PRC (mass produced 6.5 SAUM) and they introduced the .300 PRC.

He listened and like the ballistic data I shared with him. He told me all he can do is pass along my case to engineering and marketing. Of course I know the market has to support it. And I told him the cartridge would be more widely used if brass was available in form. I told him about some links to look at, one being the article I wrote for CCoker's website Tactical Gun Review. It was about a 20 minute phone call, and I even told him if I need to drive to Nebraska for a meeting, I would do it. I gave him all my contact information and he said he would get back with me. If Hornady is a no, I will move on to the next company that will listen, until I get this done.

I'll keep yall posted.

If you make a 10,000-15,000 piece commitment you may get more interest.

I need to call lapua and tell them to start making .284win brass

There are other smaller brass companies that could easily take on production like that. ADG (Atlas Dev Group), Peterson, and the new company that bought Kinetic Brass up North (I don't recall their name). Starline and maybe a few others could be interested.

ADG is my next phone call. Sure am impressed with their 28 Nosler brass.

I went to the big boy first, I am going to be surprised if I hear them agree to it. But, they've got the means to make it happen if they want to.

ADG does not currently make 7-08 Brass. I was looking last night. If they tool up for this maybe they can do both.

Help me follow the $ here. Would Hornady have to buy any rights to a proprietary design or is it public domain?

It's a wildcat, technically. No rights to buy. They make .280 A.I. brass already.

Does Mr.Ackley's estate get paid for making Hornady .280 A.I. brass? Serious question.

I know I don't pay the estate royalties for my .223 A.I. and my 7mm-08 A.I. brass that I've fire formed.

Be pretty neat if a major manufacturer started producing it. Might have to get my chamber cut to AI lol.

I Was wondering if Hornady would have to consider this when working cost. This makes it easier, along with little or no R&D.

I'm already shooting handloads. If 7-08 AI brass was available, I'd rebarrel one of my SA rifles almost immediately. I've already looked hard at the 7 SAW which is roughly the same thing.

Yes. I'll mail them twice fired brass, and tell them to keep it. And they probably don't even need that. I got the reamer in a few days, and I got Redding dies in a week, since they were special order.

The 280AI has been mainstreamed enough to no longer be considered a wildcat. SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings 280AI is on page 88

Most of the big players like Hornady will not touch a wildcat unless it s theirs and they will almost always SPEC their design before introduction. Too many small variations in some wildcats for libality purposes.

Correct on the SAW. Being a small rifle pocket was a brilliant move on Clayton's part.

However there are many more short action .473" bolts out there with a large rifle firing pin. So there's a gap to fill in my opinion.

I use 6.5 Creedmoor as my match shooting rifle only these days. I hunt with 7mm bullets. If it weren't for fear of losing brass, I'd compete with a 7mm-08 A.I. like dee used to, or still does. I've said "I aint above putting a brass catcher on a bolt action".

If there was a supply of 7mm-08 A.I. brass, I'd be out of the 6.5 Creedmoor business all together. It is that much better.

When I was on the phone with their rep, I said "you already make .280 A.I. brass, 7mm-08 A.I. brass is pretty much the same thing, just shorter."

Then I gave him my MV's for both. 24" 7mm-08 A.I. 162 gr 2820 fps MV. 280 A.I. same bullet, 2930 fps MV, but needing 26 grians more powder to do it. The 110 fps isn't worth the long action for many people. Yeah the .280 A.I. will do more, that's just where it shot best. But it shows the effeciency of the 7mm-08 A.I.

The big guys will want SAAMI specs before rolling with production the way I understand it afterall it is their standard. They will sometimes go forward with one of their development pre SAAM approval but specs are usually submitted by then, of have a gun manufacture on board to produce it.

At some point them or someone else will do it, the 280AI was a round a long time before it was standardized

I assumed you wanted them to produce brass Not ammunition which is different animals.
I can definitely see why they wouldn’t make any ammunition as there is not enough performance increase over the standard cartridge when loaded to their lawyers acceptable limits. Pretty much like all the AI’s... The 280 was different because the standard SAAMI on it was watered down for Auto-loaders way back when so doing the AI version really brings out the true performance.
My 280 load running 168-175gr bullets from a 23 inch barrel at 2885 can hangwith factory 280 AI ammo but I know that my loads are not SAAMI compliant by a long shot.

I have brought this up before but when I see some of the speeds for these AI’s and 22 Creedmoors and heck just standard rounds they are much higher pressures than SAAMI max allows. Is that a bad thing... maybe maybe not.
You can argue well my brass is fine loaded 100 times etc but it doesn’t change the fact it’s over max pressure in the pressure gun and that’s what Factory’s and folks like Chad have to live by.

We hand loaders on the other hand can run that ragged edge blissfully ignorant of exactly where our pet loads really are pressure wise.

Exactly right, DStroud.

However, I can share, a maximum publushed load for a 7mm-08 is actually not as conservative as so many other loads we are seeing now days, for many cartridges. And that load is where the fire forming load likes to be. Now, after you're formed, you have to be willing to experiment on a rifle range, and go find that new load. And I do not involve lawyers in this. Formed load, 24" barrel is a major gain in MV for such a long, heavy bullet.

another one to try is Wisconsin Cartridge Co. they do a lot of hard to get brass and loaded ammo, is where I get my Savage .303

I'd think you could get it made by Robertson / RCC.

Hornady studied the 6.5x47L before they brought out the oh so popular Creedmoor. As they did the Rem .260........ If there is another gap round needed they probably would be the ones to build the brass for it. The other up and coming brass outfits are more likely to see your point of view.

I would love to see it get published or whatever in SAAMI and pressure testing done to see what its real gains are over the original.

They just announced that hornady is making 6 gt brass for them.

Theres no way the saw is safe pressure wise. It's smaller in case capacity than ai yet yields same or higher velocity. It may run fine in most conditions but that doesn't mean it's safe in all. I asked clayton if he pressure tested it at a match and he told me he hasn't and had no clue what they are. I'd already ran rough numbers in quickload (off a piece of lapua saw brass) so I knew it was very high psi. With the new alpha brass I'd be very skeptical of advertised speeds.

Dumb question - does 7-08 AI push the limits of mag length in SA?

I'm always on the lookout for a cartridge to go to when I need to rebarrel my Tikka. Brass availability is a major concern though, so I probably wouldn't go to anything I had to fireform for.

Thank you for sharing.

Case length does not change.

That 162 gr is sitting .003" shy of lands in that rifle, and fits inside an A.I. mag with ease. I'm telling you it is the answer for a .473" bolt face short action. We owe dee a compliment for running it for so long, and was very gracious in answering my questions two years ago.

That 7 SAW looks good. I hadn't seen that yet. It looks like a 308 case necked down to 7mm and the shoulder angle sized to 30 degrees. Reading up on the case and the posted data, you're not getting those speeds without having some higher pressures. The good thing about using 308 Palma brass is the small primer pocket to allow the use of higher pressure and the case be able to handle it. The .473" bolt face with a small primer pocket will handle pressure better than the large primer will, and it will mask the pressure signs some also. But I've tried to hot rod a standard 7-08, and it's hard to get speeds up enough to be attractive over other 6.5mm calibers. The simplicity of the 7 SAW is very attractive. I like bigger bullets anyway, and if you can get the same velocity (or more) than the 6.5mm 140 grain rounds with the 7mm higher BC's, it's a win win.

^^Right

You're running 6.5 Creedmoor MV's but with a 162 gr 7mm as opposed to a 140, 143, 147 gr 6.5mm.

I don't care, at all about elevation corrections, they are easy to fix. I care about lack of wind drift, and foot pounds of energy down range. 7mm-08 A.I. with a 162 gr wins, plain and simple.

These are the 2 main reasons I drank your kool-aid and had the 708AI built. I didn't want to pour lead into the berm on windy days. I wanted more energy at distance than the Creedmoor can offer. 308 is a wonderful round but gets blown around like Gumby in front of a used car lot. 65 Creedmoor is a wonderful round but peters out if considering hunting bigger animals at distance. Why such a demand to get AI brass new? Fire forming is accurate, deadly, and once done, it's done.

Depends on the mag you use provided we are talking dbm setups. None of my mags have binder plates or are aw which are even longer so I have more than enough room to run them.

It is appealing to myself and anyone I build a 7mm-08 A.I. for, to not have to do two load work-ups. Then it is "one and done". And, barrels speed up, so one has to watch for that. Will it do it during fire forming all your brass? It will if you got enough brass. Might as well have it happen on load #1.

FJG,
if you are sticking with that round long term, it might be worth buying a cheap Savage or Rem 700, have Tony chamber to match your good rifle. Then use the cheap gun to fireform with pistol powder and toilet paper, Cream of Wheat or whatever stopper you prefer.. It will last forever and not wear out the barrel on the good rifle or waste time with running two loads.

Already have that barrel, would still rather not spend that time. And the rest of the rifle world doesn't want to either. I would rather have brass in form, form the git go.

Found my old quickload data from when I compared the saw to the 08ai while both running Palma brass through quickload. Case capacity is in favor of the 08ai by 1.5gr in h20. With the wto load of 43.3gr of varget with a 162 seated to 2.945 it shows roughly 72kpsi and 2842fps vs his advertised of 2911fps from a 26" tube. My load in the ai is 42gr of varget at 2.870 which is 63k and 2668fps though my true fps was 2708 from a 22" barrel. Now I know for sure mine passes a water test but I would doubt a 70k psi load will.

Disclaimer: I'm certain Chad already knows this but some may not but quickload isn't exact though typically pretty close. Speed difference is likely powder lot related more than anything.

Understand.

Yes, 100%. QuickLoad gets you in the ball park. It is certainly not exact. But from testing and shooting many 7-08 rounds, it's difficult to get your speeds up for that round before hitting pressure. I don't know why, but if you run the velocity numbers compared to a 308 and 260 (which is one cartridge diameter up and one down) with similar bullet weights and velocities, the 7-08 runs with less velocity. I love the round and 7mm bullets. But it does need a little boost and improving it (Ackely Imp with a 40 degree shoulder) and the SAW with a 30 to 35 degree shoulder (I'm assuming), helps boost performance. But the velocity the SAW is getting, is certainly getting higher performance from the added pressure. You could not get the same performance with a lower quality brass and large primer pocket.