What's the best all-in-one cartridge? It has to be good for Texas hunting, long range fun shooting/precision shooting to 1200 yards. It should have good hunting and target bullets, temp-stable powder and common brass for handloading. A good selection of factory hunting and target ammo for times when handloading isn'tan option. Something with light recoil for positional shooting would be a benefit. It has to be a round that you would be confident to use on any animal in Texas.
I'm gonna hang back and wait to say what I would choose.
What's the best all-in-one cartridge? It has to be good for Texas hunting, long range fun shooting/precision shooting to 1200 yards. It should have good hunting and target bullets, temp-stable powder and common brass for handloaders. A good selection of factory hunting and target ammo for non-loaders. Something with light recoil for positional shooting would be a benefit. It has to be a round that you would be confident to use on any animal in Texas.
I'm gonna hang back and wait to say what I would choose.
What's the best all-in-one cartridge? It has to be good for Texas hunting, long range fun shooting/precision shooting to 1200 yards. It should have good hunting and target bullets, temp-stable powder and common brass for handloaders. A good selection of factory hunting and target ammo for non-loaders. Something with light recoil for positional shooting would be a benefit. It has to be a round that you would be confident to use on any animal in Texas.
I'm gonna hang back and wait to say what I would choose.
You feel like today?
Not at all. I'm legitimately interested in the outcome.
What's the best all-in-one cartridge? It has to be good for Texas hunting, long range fun shooting/precision shooting to 1200 yards. It should have good hunting and target bullets, temp-stable powder and common brass for handloaders. A good selection of factory hunting and target ammo for non-loaders. Something with light recoil for positional shooting would be a benefit. It has to be a round that you would be confident to use on any animal in Texas.
I'm gonna hang back and wait to say what I would choose.
You feel like today?
Not at all. I'm legitimately interested in the outcome.
Now, around 9:00 tonight....
I can just see where this thread is going. We are going to have the 6.5 creedmoor guys in one corner, and the anything but a creedmoor guys in the other...gentlemen, fight fair and come out swinging! I'm not really into long range precision shooting, but if I were to research such a cartridge I would look at 6.5CM or .308 or 7mm-08 to fill ALL of your criteria.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is a crossover round. It's great for long range and hunting. If you're in a deer camp with a bunch of old rednecks that don't give a damn about shooting to 1000+ yards (like I am), then of course they won't run out and buy a new rifle if theirs have been working just fine.
The guys on my lease probably don't even know what a Creedmoor is, and they're obviously not the target audience. That's only 13 dudes, though. I'm in a long range group with over 90,000 members and a large percentage are hunters. I'd wager that almost every single one of them either own a 6.5 Creemoor, are building one, or are aspiring to own one. For hunters/shooters that can only afford one rifle, it's easily one of the best options available. Especially with the huge (and growing) availability of factory rifles and ammo. It's not just a handloaders cartridge like it was 12 years ago.
All that being said, it's not my favorite long range round. It's definitely not my favorite hunting round. But if I had the budget or inclination to own one rifle to do everything, it would be a 6.5 Creedmoor.
What's the best all-in-one cartridge? It has to be good for Texas hunting, long range fun shooting/precision shooting to 1200 yards. It should have good hunting and target bullets, temp-stable powder and common brass for handloaders. A good selection of factory hunting and target ammo for non-loaders. Something with light recoil for positional shooting would be a benefit. It has to be a round that you would be confident to use on any animal in Texas.
I'm gonna hang back and wait to say what I would choose.
You feel like today?
Not at all. I'm legitimately interested in the outcome.
Now, around 9:00 tonight....
I can just see where this thread is going. We are going to have the 6.5 creedmoor guys in one corner, and the anything but a creedmoor guys in the other...gentlemen, fight fair and come out swinging! I'm not really into long range precision shooting, but if I were to research such a cartridge I would look at 6.5CM or .308 or 7mm-08 to fill ALL of your criteria.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is a crossover round. It's great for long range and hunting. If you're in a deer camp with a bunch of old rednecks that don't give a damn about shooting to 1000+ yards (like I am), then of course they won't run out and buy a new rifle if theirs have been working just fine.
The guys on my lease probably don't even know what a Creedmoor is, and they're obviously not the target audience. That's only 13 dudes, though. I'm in a long range group with over 90,000 members and a large percentage are hunters. I'd wager that almost every single one of them either own a 6.5 Creemoor, are building one, or are aspiring to own one. For hunters/shooters that can only afford one rifle, it's easily one of the best options available. Especially with the huge (and growing) availability of factory rifles and ammo. It's not just a handloaders cartridge like it was 12 years ago.
All that being said, it's not my favorite long range round. It's definitely not my favorite hunting round. But if I had the budget or inclination to own one rifle to do everything, it would be a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I actually changed my mind after a bunch of consideration.
The only one that meets absolutely all of your criteria is the 6.5 Creed. Take away the requirement of factory ammo and the 7-08 trumps it. Take out 1200 yards and so does the .308
Less than .1% of the population is shooting 1200 yards and less than 2% of them are using factory ammo. So that should be 1 in 50,000 people are shooting 1200 yards with factory ammo. Do my numbers sound correct?
The only one that meets absolutely all of your criteria is the 6.5 Creed. Take away the requirement of factory ammo and the 7-08 trumps it. Take out 1200 yards and so does the .308
Less than .1% of the population is shooting 1200 yards and less than 2% of them are using factory ammo. So that should be 1 in 50,000 people are shooting 1200 yards with factory ammo. Do my numbers sound correct?
I have no idea if your numbers are correct. If I only had one rifle, I would need it to do all of those things, because I participate in all those things. I'm not asking y'all to choose a rifle for America. I'm asking you to choose one that would check all my boxes. What advice you would give me if I was buying a rifle to do everything I need it to do, and I was buying it based in your opinins. It's been interesting so far. Thank y'all for being good sports.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is a crossover round. It's great for long range and hunting. If you're in a deer camp with a bunch of old rednecks that don't give a damn about shooting to 1000+ yards (like I am), then of course they won't run out and buy a new rifle if theirs have been working just fine.
The guys on my lease probably don't even know what a Creedmoor is, and they're obviously not the target audience. That's only 13 dudes, though. I'm in a long range group with over 90,000 members and a large percentage are hunters. I'd wager that almost every single one of them either own a 6.5 Creemoor, are building one, or are aspiring to own one. For hunters/shooters that can only afford one rifle, it's easily one of the best options available. Especially with the huge (and growing) availability of factory rifles and ammo. It's not just a handloaders cartridge like it was 12 years ago.
All that being said, it's not my favorite long range round. It's definitely not my favorite hunting round. But if I had the budget or inclination to own one rifle to do everything, it would be a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I actually changed my mind after a bunch of consideration.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is a crossover round. It's great for long range and hunting. If you're in a deer camp with a bunch of old rednecks that don't give a damn about shooting to 1000+ yards (like I am), then of course they won't run out and buy a new rifle if theirs have been working just fine.
The guys on my lease probably don't even know what a Creedmoor is, and they're obviously not the target audience. That's only 13 dudes, though. I'm in a long range group with over 90,000 members and a large percentage are hunters. I'd wager that almost every single one of them either own a 6.5 Creemoor, are building one, or are aspiring to own one. For hunters/shooters that can only afford one rifle, it's easily one of the best options available. Especially with the huge (and growing) availability of factory rifles and ammo. It's not just a handloaders cartridge like it was 12 years ago.
All that being said, it's not my favorite long range round. It's definitely not my favorite hunting round. But if I had the budget or inclination to own one rifle to do everything, it would be a 6.5 Creedmoor.
I actually changed my mind after a bunch of consideration.
There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
The only one that meets absolutely all of your criteria is the 6.5 Creed. Take away the requirement of factory ammo and the 7-08 trumps it. Take out 1200 yards and so does the .308
Less than .1% of the population is shooting 1200 yards and less than 2% of them are using factory ammo. So that should be 1 in 50,000 people are shooting 1200 yards with factory ammo. Do my numbers sound correct?
I have no idea if your numbers are correct. If I only had one rifle, I would need it to do all of those things, because I participate in all those things. I'm not asking y'all to choose a rifle for America. I'm asking you to choose one that would check all my boxes. What advice you would give me if I was buying a rifle to do everything I need it to do, and I was buying it based in your opinins. It's been interesting so far. Thank y'all for being good sports.
Texas is a big and vast state, with very different types of terrain and animals. Within its borders, you will find Free Ranging Elk, Aoudad, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Nilgai, Axis Deer, Black Buck Antelope, Pronghorn Antelope, Red Deer, Different types of Corsican Sheep mixes, etc....pretty much the only thing we don't have within our borders are moose, mountain goat and bears.
If you for whatever reason had to pick one rifle to do both target shooting and hunting, I would lean it towards the hunting end of it, because for me personally, a target type rifle isn't the most pleasant to hunt with outside of a box blind. I can easily shoot targets with two of my current set ups but they are not target guns, they are hunting rifles.
Back to caliber.....If you have to have something to do it all, I err to the side of caution. I don't want a caliber that is adequate when conditions are perfect and everything lines up right, I want something that will hit the target animal hard and fast. I'm talking about something I can knock down a nilgai or elk with on quartering front shot at last light, or something I can smack an aoudad with and not worry about him jumping off a cliff. Ranges can be 50 yards in the pine woods of east texas, 200 yards across a oat field down south or 400 yards across a canyon in the Trans Pecos. Lots of variables to consider.
So based on my personal hunting experience, having killed a lot of animals, I fall under the "use enough gun " umbrella. you don't need a .338 ultra to go hunting but if you look at the time and money invested into hunting in Texas, why would you handicap yourself by choosing a marginal caliber.....
Maybe the question that should be asked is " what is the do all caliber for the type of hunting that YOU do" ?
In my own opinion, true do-all calibers start at the 7mm Remington at the minimum.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
I used to be a died in the wool .308 man, but the 6.5 Creed won me over. It’s my one do-all cartridge for Texas and anything in the lower 48. Long range? Uh yeah. Lower recoil than .308 and while there are less components they are still easy to find and a good selection of factory ammo with new selections all the time.
There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
[quote=onlysmith&wesson]There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
Really? Just don’t have much experience or? 6.5 Creed in a 20” barrel. Covers all your scenarios in one rifle and caliber.
[quote=onlysmith&wesson]There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
Really? Just don’t have much experience or? 6.5 Creed in a 20” barrel. Covers all your scenarios in one rifle and caliber.
Probably shoulda went back and got his quote instead of cutting mine off, but thanks anyway.
My turn to drink beer and [censored].
The creedmoor is a target round plain and simple. Don't be a sucker.
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: J.G.]
#749841104/27/1909:54 PM
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
With today’s modern powders it’ll do 2800 with a 140 and a 22.4” barrel. But it’s still doing it in a long action instead of short. It may do more but I haven’t tested further. Zero pressure signs at that velocity.
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: J.G.]
#749843004/27/1910:25 PM
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
With today’s modern powders it’ll do 2800 with a 140 and a 22.4” barrel. But it’s still doing it in a long action instead of short. It may do more but I haven’t tested further. Zero pressure signs at that velocity.
Good to know. Thank you.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
This is too much fun.
You're welcome, by the way
Trying to stomp out ignorance. But you are resisting.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: J.G.]
#749846104/27/1911:12 PM
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
This is too much fun.
You're welcome, by the way
Trying to stomp out ignorance. But you are resisting.
I'm being ignorant?
Good luck stomping me out "friend". But I don't fall for the internet tough talk.
Kinda dissappointed in you. I thought you were above that.
But seriously, you really believe the creedmore is that great and everything else is going "out of style" or some nonsense like that. I know that is not what you think, but one could quickly come to that conclusion reading several things you've posted.
Now let's really think about this. You think everybody is just gonna say oh heck ill just give up everything and shoot the creedmore because ot's good for 1200 yards.
Nato cartridges, 30/06 and anything else /06 will never die. Creedmore will, unless it is adopted as the next NATO round.
Heck JG, you just told us your favorite all around is the 7/08. Let that creedmore stuff go. In a few years it will be like .280 Remington and .280 AI.
I'd choose a 308. I can load 155 Flatlines that stay supersonic to 1300 yards, load 225 subsonics that are silent with a good suppressor, monolithics for hunting big game, and buy excellent inexpensive factory ammo like Frederal GMM at any store that sells ammo. And I can do all of that with a 20" barrel. Second choice would be a 6.5 Creedmoor and third would be a 7mm-08. I could get by just fine with any of those 3.
I forgot to add the factor that really puts 308 over the 6.5 for me, and that's Varget. It's one of the most accurate, consistent, and temp-stable rifle powders ever created. And it's one of the easiest powders to find in stock, unlike H4350 and RL16 for the Creed.
Last edited by ImTheReasonDovesMourn; 04/28/1903:24 AM. Reason: Varget
Except before Jeremy started loading, we couldn't find H-Varget to save our lives. Then we couldn't find H-4350. Now both are readily available. Welcome to a Republican President.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
"Military 6.5x55 ammunition was loaded to a pressure of 3200 ATM which converts to 47008psi. Proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. The original m/94 military load featured a 10.1 gram (156 grain) round nosed bullet which achieved 725m/s (2378fps) in the 29" barreled m/96 rifle, 700m/s (2297fps) in the 24" m/38 rifle and 655m/s (2149fps) in the original 18.5" m/94 carbine. The first pointed bullets were tested between 1910 and 1920 in experimental rifles, the final load appeared in the M/41 sniper rifle and used a 9 gram (139 grain) pointed bullet. This load quickly proved itself superior to the former and in 1944, the 9 gram load replaced all of the previous M94 designated ammunition. The M/41 load achieved 793 m/s (2601fps) in the 29" M/96 barrel, 768 m/s (2519fps) in the 24" m/38 barrel and 730 m/s (2395fps) in the18.5" M/94."
Not sure what it^^ will do with powders of today. Probably much better. Either way, it has always been touted as a good cartridge.
And then...
6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 140 gr bullet 2780 fps MV
6.5 Creedmoor, 20" barrel 140 gr bullet 2700 fps MV
This is too much fun.
You're welcome, by the way
Trying to stomp out ignorance. But you are resisting.
I'm being ignorant? Yes. "The Creedmoor is a target round plain and simple." Nonsense.
Good luck stomping me out "friend". But I don't fall for the internet tough talk.I'm trying to stomp out ignorance, not a person. (reading comprehension). We will probably never be friends.
Kinda dissappointed in you. I thought you were above that.I don't care. Above what?
But seriously, you really believe the creedmore is that great and everything else is going "out of style" where did I say out of style? Since you put it in quotations. Feel free to show your work.or some nonsense like that. read the previous sentence I know that is not what you think, but one could quickly come to that conclusion reading several things you've posted.You have come to that conclusion on your whole four months here? Well, pay attention, in the future, because that is a fraction of the story.
Now let's really think about this. You think everybody is just gonna say oh heck ill just give up everything and shoot the creedmore because ot's good for 1200 yards.Please show me where I said that. Once again, feel free to show your work.
Nato cartridges, 30/06 and anything else /06 will never die. Where did I write anything to the contrary? Creedmore will, unless it is adopted as the next NATO round.That is more of your ignorance showing. According to you, no cartridge will survive if it is not adopted by NATO. My 11 year old daughter knows better than that. This is sad to watch.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: J.G.]
#749868304/28/1904:23 AM
Except before Jeremy started loading, we couldn't find H-Varget to save our lives. Then we couldn't find H-4350. Now both are readily available. Welcome to a Republican President.
I'd choose a 308. I can load 155 Flatlines that stay supersonic to 1300 yards, load 225 subsonics that are silent with a good suppressor, monolithics for hunting big game, and buy excellent inexpensive factory ammo like Frederal GMM at any store that sells ammo. And I can do all of that with a 20" barrel. Second choice would be a 6.5 Creedmoor and third would be a 7mm-08. I could get by just fine with any of those 3.
I forgot to add the factor that really puts 308 over the 6.5 for me, and that's Varget. It's one of the most accurate, consistent, and temp-stable rifle powders ever created. And it's one of the easiest powders to find in stock, unlike H4350 and RL16 for the Creed.
So energy never factors into your equation for a hunting round ?
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
I'd choose a 308. I can load 155 Flatlines that stay supersonic to 1300 yards, load 225 subsonics that are silent with a good suppressor, monolithics for hunting big game, and buy excellent inexpensive factory ammo like Frederal GMM at any store that sells ammo. And I can do all of that with a 20" barrel. Second choice would be a 6.5 Creedmoor and third would be a 7mm-08. I could get by just fine with any of those 3.
I forgot to add the factor that really puts 308 over the 6.5 for me, and that's Varget. It's one of the most accurate, consistent, and temp-stable rifle powders ever created. And it's one of the easiest powders to find in stock, unlike H4350 and RL16 for the Creed.
So energy never factors into your equation for a hunting round ?
Where the F did you read that? Are you implying that a 308 can't produce enough kinetic energy to hunt with?
Trying to stomp out ignorance. But you are resisting.[/quote]
I'm being ignorant? Yes. "The Creedmoor is a target round plain and simple." Nonsense.
Good luck stomping me out "friend". But I don't fall for the internet tough talk.I'm trying to stomp out ignorance, not a person. (reading comprehension). We will probably never be friends.
Kinda dissappointed in you. I thought you were above that.I don't care. Above what?
But seriously, you really believe the creedmore is that great and everything else is going "out of style" where did I say out of style? Since you put it in quotations. Feel free to show your work.or some nonsense like that. read the previous sentence I know that is not what you think, but one could quickly come to that conclusion reading several things you've posted.You have come to that conclusion on your whole four months here? Well, pay attention, in the future, because that is a fraction of the story.
Now let's really think about this. You think everybody is just gonna say oh heck ill just give up everything and shoot the creedmore because ot's good for 1200 yards.Please show me where I said that. Once again, feel free to show your work.
Nato cartridges, 30/06 and anything else /06 will never die. Where did I write anything to the contrary? Creedmore will, unless it is adopted as the next NATO round.That is more of your ignorance showing. According to you, no cartridge will survive if it is not adopted by NATO. My 11 year old daughter knows better than that. This is sad to watch. [/quote] [/quote]
Sad to watch you getting so personal with me. If you are trying to rub me the wrong way, well, I gotta admit it's working.
I lumped you in with the rest of the creedmoor crowd, and I feel it's a pretty darn fair assumption. I never wuoted you exactly on that stuff, you got me. But you're right there with the rest of em nodding your head.
No, not just NATO cartridges. But yeah, that is about the only thing that will save a newcomer, because no new cartridges (12 years is new) has shown any kind of staying power over others that were already here for 50+ years. In time the creedmoor will be a handloader's cartridge that will be mourned like .257 roberts and .280 ai.
My 4 months here... it's not this last 4 months that got me to this point, more like the last week or two. I been too busy with the rest of my life that I enjoy to peruse the forum the way you do.
The only thing you really got right, is we will probably never be friends.
I am sure you are basking in the glory of your internet forum superstar status... it really doesn't mean much to me. You and your kind represent probably less than 1% of shooters- let's be real about that.
Yeah, you know what you're talking about and you know a lot more than me about cartridges and shooting. But I got you on this one and you just can't stand being wrong or letting a regular dude like me be right. Fine by me, keep being an [censored].
I have alot more in my life to look forward to that my THF status, but for the record I had another acccount in the past under a similar name. I got away from it when I left Texas. So, more than 4 months, for sure. Nope, didnt get banned, assumed it was old and deactivated but it wasnt, go figure. But I digress . I'm not that important to you... but you sure took the time to dissect my thread play by play.
Old DH3 I think it was, I may be mistaken. He's no friend of mine but he got you pegged. I was just trying to have a little fun, I guess that is not allowed because I am not a member of the forum elite, spending money like water on the latest and greatest stuff.
You [censored] that quote up to hell and back... Just sayin
Yeah, the forum wouldn't let me post it all because ot was more than 4 layers deep or something like that. I didn't take the time to dress it up nice n neat.
You [censored] that quote up to hell and back... Just sayin
Yeah, the forum wouldn't let me post it all because ot was more than 4 layers deep or something like that. I didn't take the time to dress it up nice n neat.
Delete the first few and quote just what you are replying to
I'd choose a 308. I can load 155 Flatlines that stay supersonic to 1300 yards, load 225 subsonics that are silent with a good suppressor, monolithics for hunting big game, and buy excellent inexpensive factory ammo like Frederal GMM at any store that sells ammo. And I can do all of that with a 20" barrel. Second choice would be a 6.5 Creedmoor and third would be a 7mm-08. I could get by just fine with any of those 3.
I forgot to add the factor that really puts 308 over the 6.5 for me, and that's Varget. It's one of the most accurate, consistent, and temp-stable rifle powders ever created. And it's one of the easiest powders to find in stock, unlike H4350 and RL16 for the Creed.
So energy never factors into your equation for a hunting round ?
Where the F did you read that? Are you implying that a 308 can't produce enough kinetic energy to hunt with?
I read that in your above post which mentions velocity, accuracy and reload ability, but not energy
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
[quote=onlysmith&wesson]There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
Really? Just don’t have much experience or? 6.5 Creed in a 20” barrel. Covers all your scenarios in one rifle and caliber.
Yes. Your second, two part question can't be answered since it is incomplete and open ended.
My response was intended to be thought provoking. The fact that .308 is out there factory configured in a variety of barrel lengths, three of which I have, speaks to it's versatility, which is what the OP framed as his criteria.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
[quote=onlysmith&wesson]There's got to be something to the fact that I have 3 .308's, other than I may have a compulsion.
I hunt with my 5R Milspec when I'll be in my elevated blind, shooting a long way and not covering a lot of ground, 24" barrel, about 14 lbs with everything.
When I head out in the morning, knowing that I'll be hunting a few different set ups over the entire day, I take my CTR, 20" barrel.
When I'm cruising the lease on my 4 wheeler, knowing I'll have opportunities at coyotes, hogs, and may a doe if I decide to shoot one, it'll be the 788 with the 18-1/5" barrel.
All the same ammo. I don't know of another caliber I could pull this off with.
Really? Just don’t have much experience or? 6.5 Creed in a 20” barrel. Covers all your scenarios in one rifle and caliber.
Yes. Your second, two part question can't be answered since it is incomplete and open ended.
My response was intended to be thought provoking. The fact that .308 is out there factory configured in a variety of barrel lengths, three of which I have, speaks to it's versatility, which is what the OP framed as his criteria.
Oh it was thought provoking, thanks.
Last edited by Precision_Shooter; 04/28/1901:18 PM.
No sane hunter/shooter can deny the attributes of a .308/30-06 cartridge as an .all arounder". Any attempt to do so immediately draws attention to either the ignorance, or inexperience of the one making such an argument. The sheer amount of bullet choices, as well as rifle choices in these cartridges only adds to the argument in favor of.
By the same token, nobody with any experience or knowledge of the 6.5CM can argue the virtues and attributes of the cartridge either. There are way too many documented cases in favor of to deny over the past 12 years. As we all know by know, the USDOD special forces are adopting it as their preferred cartridge, choosing it over the .308 after extensive testing.
I don't understand why these types of ridiculous arguments get started. Anything that brings more people and enjoyment into the shooting and hunting community is a positive, since the general trend of the libtards, commies, tree huggers, etc is to divide and conquer. Screw that nonsense......go shoot,hunt, competitive shoot, etc and have fun with it. Beats the $%^#%^ out of golf.
I think one of the bigger problems here is some people do not know the definition of the word ignorance. They just see it and get offended. That’s not me taking sides in this crap either.
I think one of the bigger problems here is some people do not know the definition of the word ignorance. They just see it and get offended. That’s not me taking sides in this crap either.
Exactly. Ignorance is not having information, or not knowing something. It is not the same thing as stupidity.
And then butt hurt shows up, when a simple debate is being lost.
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Can a 308 kill sh!+? Do I really have to ask? Nitpicking troll.
I think you need to lay off the sauce.
No one ever said the .308 was a poor choice for hunting
I just pointed out out of all the criteria mentioned, energy was not a factor
Reading comprehension is becoming a lost art apparently...
I think you need to lay off the trolling. I know every detail about every round I shoot. I use 1000 ft/lbs of energy as a benchmark for hunting. I also know the minimum expansion velocity of my bullet. This example is a 168 Nosler Ballistic Tip. It expands reliably at 1600+ fps. Then I take those numbers and find my maximum hunting range.
I'm sure with your ungodly vast hunting experience, you already know these numbers without a ballistics calculator. Just like you already know that a 308 has plenty of energy to hunt with. If I told you I bought a new Ram because I like the bodystyle, great ride, interior style, rear legroom for my kids and the towing capacity, would you say "bu but but what about horsepower? You don't care about horsepower? You didn't even mention horsepower!!!!" Well, there's a badge on the side of the truck that says 5.7 Hemi. You already know it has plenty of horsepower. It's the same with my rifle. It has a 308 Win stamp on the side of the barrel. You already know it has plenty of horsepower and you're nitpicking. Maybe you should get ON the sauce and chill the F out.
The 165 & 168 Nosler Ballistic Tips are about perfect for the 308 Win. They open easily but have an extremely thick jacket at the base. You can lose the entire lead core and still get 60% weight retention.
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: J.G.]
#749885304/28/1904:09 PM
I think one of the bigger problems here is some people do not know the definition of the word ignorance. They just see it and get offended. That’s not me taking sides in this crap either.
Exactly. Ignorance is not having information, or not knowing something. It is not the same thing as stupidity.
And then butt hurt shows up, when a simple debate is being lost.
No, butt hurt shows up when little ole 4 months challenges you in any kind of way. Ignorance is more than not knowing or not having information. You crossed the line with me and you know it, but stand firm. That's ignorance, having that information and keeping on.
Maybe next time you get personal with me you keep iit to pm's, and I could let it go.
You might be something on this forum, but that don't mean anything to me.
I guess this is what I deserve for wasting so much time on here this weekend, is to get my feathers ruffled by an internet superstar. It's my fault for letting you get to me. That is where my ignorance came through.
The 165 & 168 Nosler Ballistic Tips are about perfect for the 308 Win. They open easily but have an extremely thick jacket at the base. You can lose the entire lead core and still get 60% weight retention.
I’ve seen the 150 grain Winchester ballistic silver tip in use and it is impressive in deer.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
I think one of the bigger problems here is some people do not know the definition of the word ignorance. They just see it and get offended. That’s not me taking sides in this crap either.
Exactly. Ignorance is not having information, or not knowing something. It is not the same thing as stupidity.
And then butt hurt shows up, when a simple debate is being lost.
No, butt hurt shows up when little ole 4 months challenges you in any kind of way. Ignorance is more than not knowing or not having information. You crossed the line with me and you know it, but stand firm. That's ignorance, having that information and keeping on.
Maybe next time you get personal with me you keep iit to pm's, and I could let it go.
You might be something on this forum, but that don't mean anything to me.
I never got personal with you. We are talking about data, that's all. You took it personal, and you made assumptions, without all of the information.
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The 165 & 168 Nosler Ballistic Tips are about perfect for the 308 Win. They open easily but have an extremely thick jacket at the base. You can lose the entire lead core and still get 60% weight retention.
I’ve seen the 150 grain Winchester ballistic silver tip in use and it is impressive in deer.
The 150s are great. Used them on a mule deer, 2 whitetail and a javelina and nothing took a step.
You girls are funny, 22LR is obviously the best all around best caliber. If I had not other rifle I’d have a 22LR. Could carry literally thousands of rounds of ammo and if you put it in the brain pan can kill anything 4 legged or 2 legged. Oh and zombies so yea 22LR for me.
You girls are funny, 22LR is obviously the best all around best caliber. If I had not other rifle I’d have a 22LR. Could carry literally thousands of rounds of ammo and if you put it in the brain pan can kill anything 4 legged or 2 legged. Oh and zombies so yea 22LR for me.
Biggest animal I’ve ever killed dropped with 1 shot between the eyes from a 40 grain solid point at 40 yards
I’ve argued with friends if the cheese hit the fan what gun would you grab, many have argued the .22 and I would agree with them
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: P_102]
#749904704/28/1911:41 PM
You girls are funny, 22LR is obviously the best all around best caliber. If I had not other rifle I’d have a 22LR. Could carry literally thousands of rounds of ammo and if you put it in the brain pan can kill anything 4 legged or 2 legged. Oh and zombies so yea 22LR for me.
Not a bad choice, but many of today's shooters find the recoil of the full charge .22 LR to be objectionable (especially during extended shooting sessions).
As one can obtain factory ammunition loaded with projectiles of similar BC in the .22 Short (aka the .22 Stubby Compact Rimfire or SCR), this may prove a more suitable all-around choice.
Your mileage may vary.
Mark
"I always take care to fire into the nearest hillside and, lacking that, into darkness". - the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
Yeah but you know she had to place the shot perfectly and perfectly at a right angle to the skull with the old .22 long loads. My trashcans are full of water and I tried to ventilate them with some CCI Quiet and the first few shots ricocheted off the hard plastic! I had to crouch down and hit them from a right angle to poke some drain holes in them.
I don't know how that compares to a bear skull, but next time I'll use some stingers or something to do that job.
Was a guy that used to advertise brown bear hunts in Russia, in the outfitters section. Had a few pictures of big bears killed with an old, beat up sks.
Prove it! I'll come to the 22LR match if you shoot at 1000 yards, and I will take a look at your birth certificate as well. My vote is Kyle is feeling a bit froggy tonight.
I've been in Kansas turkey hunting and am late to the party. What's best depends on your first priority. 1,200 yards with factory ammo limits you to hanging with only the popular cartridges.
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
Originally Posted by wp75169
The only one that meets absolutely all of your criteria is the 6.5 Creed. Take away the requirement of factory ammo and the 7-08 trumps it. Take out 1200 yards and so does the .308
Less than .1% of the population is shooting 1200 yards and less than 2% of them are using factory ammo. So that should be 1 in 50,000 people are shooting 1200 yards with factory ammo. Do my numbers sound correct?
I have no idea if your numbers are correct. If I only had one rifle, I would need it to do all of those things, because I participate in all those things. I'm not asking y'all to choose a rifle for America. I'm asking you to choose one that would check all my boxes. What advice you would give me if I was buying a rifle to do everything I need it to do, and I was buying it based in your opinins. It's been interesting so far. Thank y'all for being good sports.
Texas is a big and vast state, with very different types of terrain and animals. Within its borders, you will find Free Ranging Elk, Aoudad, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Nilgai, Axis Deer, Black Buck Antelope, Pronghorn Antelope, Red Deer, Different types of Corsican Sheep mixes, etc....pretty much the only thing we don't have within our borders are moose, mountain goat and bears.
If you for whatever reason had to pick one rifle to do both target shooting and hunting, I would lean it towards the hunting end of it, because for me personally, a target type rifle isn't the most pleasant to hunt with outside of a box blind. I can easily shoot targets with two of my current set ups but they are not target guns, they are hunting rifles.
Back to caliber.....If you have to have something to do it all, I err to the side of caution. I don't want a caliber that is adequate when conditions are perfect and everything lines up right, I want something that will hit the target animal hard and fast. I'm talking about something I can knock down a nilgai or elk with on quartering front shot at last light, or something I can smack an aoudad with and not worry about him jumping off a cliff. Ranges can be 50 yards in the pine woods of east texas, 200 yards across a oat field down south or 400 yards across a canyon in the Trans Pecos. Lots of variables to consider.
So based on my personal hunting experience, having killed a lot of animals, I fall under the "use enough gun " umbrella. you don't need a .338 ultra to go hunting but if you look at the time and money invested into hunting in Texas, why would you handicap yourself by choosing a marginal caliber.....
Maybe the question that should be asked is " what is the do all caliber for the type of hunting that YOU do" ?
In my own opinion, true do-all calibers start at the 7mm Remington at the minimum.
^This^ matches my preference, but I am a hunter first that dabbles with long range shooting. 7 RM would be my first choice. It is pretty close to the upper limit of what is comfortable recoil wise to shoot a good bit in a session. Recoil tolerance is individual though.
6.5 Creedmore would be at the lower end of cartridges I would use on bigger animals present in Texas. If long range targets are your first priority, it would be a good choice. It's all give and take. 30-06 is a cartridge I would view as middle of the road that would be a good choice. I don't think it is best at any of the criteria but does all of them well enough to be a solid contender. 308 would do as well, for those that are set on using a short action, and are recoil sensitive. The 308 probably wins in the availability of good factory ammo.
This is a topic I pray has no definite answer. If my wife was to read this, she'd NEVER let me buy another gun! "All you need is that one gun to do everything" I can hear her now.
There's only 2 seasons in a year. Deer season and getting ready for deer season.
Re: Best All-Around Rifle Cartridge
[Re: KRoyal]
#750105905/01/1903:36 AM
You girls are funny, 22LR is obviously the best all around best caliber. If I had not other rifle I’d have a 22LR. Could carry literally thousands of rounds of ammo and if you put it in the brain pan can kill anything 4 legged or 2 legged. Oh and zombies so yea 22LR for me.
If 22LR is so great for killing Zombies, why don't you ever see one on The Walking Dead????
I guess its probably all different for each of us.
If I was starting from scratch today looking for a rifle my 2 options would be a 7mm08 AI 280 AI. I reload so factory ammo doesn't matter much to me and you can shoot the non AI versions in them anyway.
I guess its probably all different for each of us.
If I was starting from scratch today looking for a rifle my 2 options would be a 7mm08 AI 280 AI. I reload so factory ammo doesn't matter much to me and you can shoot the non AI versions in them anyway.
If you want to cheat the wind, and deliver energy, nothing in the action and bolt face size can touch the 7mm-08 A.I. coupled with 162's and H-Varget. It will do it all!
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