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Re: Low "T"? [Re: snake oil] #7133875 04/06/18 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: snake oil
I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......


Not trying to upset you but a 71 year old man with a T level of 540 doesn't need testosterone therapy. I also don't recommend pellets. You can't adjust them once they are placed. Injections are much safer for adjusting to the right dose. If you don't need the T don't do it. It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: jetdad] #7135669 04/08/18 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: jetdad
Originally Posted By: snake oil
I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......


Not trying to upset you but a 71 year old man with a T level of 540 doesn't need testosterone therapy. I also don't recommend pellets. You can't adjust them once they are placed. Injections are much safer for adjusting to the right dose. If you don't need the T don't do it. It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.


The doctor that administered them said I was fine as long as it wasn't over 600 at first testing.Yes it's fertilizer for cancer. They keep a close eye on my PSA levels.

Last edited by snake oil; 04/08/18 12:05 PM.

"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas".
Re: Low "T"? [Re: jetdad] #7135827 04/08/18 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: jetdad
It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.


What makes you say this? Sugar feeds cancer...

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7135843 04/08/18 05:04 PM
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The link between testosterone and prostate cancer is a known fact. Sugar also feeds cancer. That's why they step up or should increase the frequency of blood tests while you are doing TRT. I did TRT for several years with no issues. I had my PSA monitored (along with other hormone related levels) every 3 months. I got off the regimen for about 18 months. When I resumed my PSA was 3.8. The first blood test was done 30 days after the first injection and my PSA went to 7.0. An MRI showed cancerous lesions and a biopsy confirmed. In a way I was lucky that the TRT brought the cancer to light so it could be treated. I finished radiation in February. My urologist, oncologist and I have discussed the testosterone/cancer relationship many times. I trust what I've read and heard from both of them. It's over prescribed in my opinion.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7135846 04/08/18 05:12 PM
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http://jeffreydachmd.com/psa-and-testosterone-part-two/

Several studies have showed that's a myth.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7135859 04/08/18 05:21 PM
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He uses the term causative in his first sentence. Notice my post says feeds NOT causes. Everybody has an opinion. I'm not going to debate you. After 40 radiation treatments I'm not interested a rehash.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7135890 04/08/18 06:25 PM
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As you know, cancer is a cell. All cells use sugar as energy to live and grow. No cells magically break down testosterone into a completely different element (sugar) and grow. Cancer physically cannot use testosterone to grow. It's irresponsible to get on a forum and tell people testosterone feeds cancer even if it is just your opinion. It's physically impossible for your body to accomplish.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7136016 04/08/18 10:01 PM
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I'll be sure to let my doctors know that you disagree with them. After all, they only have 120 years of collective experience treating prostate cancer. Since none of them will refill my cypionate prescription, would you mind doing it for me? Thanks.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7136024 04/08/18 10:12 PM
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Well my doctor disagrees with your doctor. Should we have them fight? I'd love to see a study showing that cancer consumes testosterone for energy and growth.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7136072 04/08/18 11:18 PM
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I have a blood disorder that's genetic (thallysemia anemia) and my parents were equally split between high and low blood sugar.... I have fought weight and activity levels from high to low for years...(I have weighed 190 and 300 as an adult, twice each, after not being able to gain weight as a college athlete).... I have finally found a Dr (endocrinologist) that believes in traditional meds and hormone replacement therapies combined...

Between low iron, low Vit D, A1H problems, and slightly low T, they came up with a mixture of Thyroid and other supplements, and pellets for both T and other stuff, and they monitor my blood religously as I am one of the first Thallysemia patients with this treatment, and I'll take how I feel now over the past 8 days a week.

Find a real doctor, not just a snake oil salesman.

Last edited by sig226fan (Rguns.com); 04/08/18 11:20 PM.
Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7139928 04/13/18 12:27 PM
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Best damn thread ever on the THF.


Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Low "T"? [Re: Dave Davidson] #7141232 04/15/18 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson
Best damn thread ever on the THF.


I believe that belongs to Indian corn and black panthers


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Low "T"? [Re: txtrophy85] #7173871 05/19/18 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson
Best damn thread ever on the THF.


I believe that belongs to Indian corn and black panthers

I can't believe its still going...... loco


Originally Posted by Sneaky
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored]
Originally Posted by beaversnipe
Actually, BBC is pretty damn good

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7180685 05/26/18 07:40 PM
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I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.


Searching the world over for the perfect Chile Relleno.
Re: Low "T"? [Re: HOF] #7255716 08/14/18 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?


Originally Posted by Sneaky
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored]
Originally Posted by beaversnipe
Actually, BBC is pretty damn good

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7255774 08/14/18 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?


When the t level drops I'll do it again. The upside has been incredible. The wife and I just did a 30 mile bike ride through the hills of Arkansas yesterday. 6 months ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it.

Downside is the implant sites keep getting infected and extending. It's a pain,

I exercise daily. Lift several times per week. Swim several times. And walk daily. I can tell my stamina has increased and I'm gradually regaining strength.

The doc has taken me off almost all of my meds. Of course, my doc and cardiolist are against it.

It's made me a believer.


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Re: Low "T"? [Re: HOF] #7255856 08/14/18 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: HOF
Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?


When the t level drops I'll do it again. The upside has been incredible. The wife and I just did a 30 mile bike ride through the hills of Arkansas yesterday. 6 months ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it.

Downside is the implant sites keep getting infected and extending. It's a pain,

I exercise daily. Lift several times per week. Swim several times. And walk daily. I can tell my stamina has increased and I'm gradually regaining strength.

The doc has taken me off almost all of my meds. Of course, my doc and cardiolist are against it.

It's made me a believer.



Just curious, did they say why specifically? If he took you off all of your meds is he not happy with the results?

How old are you?

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7256193 08/15/18 04:05 AM
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Doc H, my cardiologist pationatly objected stating the risk was too high. My gp echoed the same sentiment. Same with the hic diet I did.

I'm almost 56 and old enough to take responsibility for digging myself out of the hole I dug.

Diet remains a daily struggle but the t replacement seems to help the recovery time with extra exercise. It takes it all for my body to tepid. Hardest thing I've ever done.

Last edited by HOF; 08/15/18 04:08 AM.

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Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7256244 08/15/18 04:38 AM
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Gotcha...good to know. Everything has risks and benefits and sometimes quality of life is more important than the risk of shortening your quantity of life. Best of luck!

Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7256631 08/15/18 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk


First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.


My doctor took blood and told me exactly what my numbers were. Took blood as treatment administered to monitor levels also.

I would think that should be "Testoterone Therapy 101" stuff.
You're correct....it should be 101....but I think a lot of those clinics are just selling the hype....just like botox.....


So you haven’t been to a clinic that specializes in it? So you are assuming they don’t run blood 4x a year. And Go over t-levels, free T levels, esteogn levels, and full blood work up including CBC, protein, PSA’s etc...

You are preaching about one thing and making complete assumptions about others...


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Low "T"? [Re: Exbellicus] #7256638 08/15/18 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Well my doctor disagrees with your doctor. Should we have them fight? I'd love to see a study showing that cancer consumes testosterone for energy and growth.


Testosterone has been linked to prostate cancer in some form, thus why the real doctors and specialize clinics monitor PSA’s and do urination surveys


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7256714 08/15/18 02:26 PM
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Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: Exbellicus] #7256753 08/15/18 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.


I’m just going by what the “LOW T clinic” does and why. Who knows, it could be an active study to disprove the correlation, but when asked that’s the official reasoning


Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Low "T"? [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7256771 08/15/18 02:47 PM
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Yeah it is because there is not enough evidence to not check it when they are already drawing your blood. In the doctor's defense, it's really challenging to sift through these studies. Ill give you an example.

Here are two studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016428/
"Conclusion
In our study's results, serum testosterone at the time of diagnosis was unrelated to PSA elevation, prostate cancer risk, and aggressiveness."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5436005/
"Conclusion
Only after adjusted multivariate analysis, our results indicated that testosterone was associated with PSA levels in middle-aged healthy men."

As a MD you have two published studies here indicating different results. How do you advise your patients? It's impossible even if you're trying to be a good doc and trying to stay up with all the latest continuing education. There is just too much bias, bribes, and money to be made in the medical field to many honest studies done.

Re: Low "T"? [Re: Exbellicus] #7256782 08/15/18 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.


I have zero desire to take on either side of this argument. We are full grown men and old enough to know our decisions have consequences and we own them. A year ago, I couldn't even think of riding a bike uphill with my grandkids. This weekend, they crashed trying to keep up with pa paw.

Excellibus took the words out of my mouth. I can't express the joy, exuberance, and new found hope this program has assisted in producing. None of us want to die but short of the second coming if Christ, none of us are gonna make it out alive. For me, I don't want to be here one day longer than what God desires and I'm grateful for the opportunity to spend an active week with my kids


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