Texas Hunting Forum

Low "T"?

Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Low "T"? - 10/19/17 08:39 PM

Hoax, scam, or for real? What says the THF? Keep it kid friendly and out of the bunker... confused2 popcorn
Posted By: Sneaky

Re: Low "T"? - 10/19/17 09:17 PM

I couldn’t say. I haven’t done the research.

However, my thinking is that people are trying to avoid something that is natural and supposed to happen. We may not like it, but that’s the way it works. Messing with things that naturally happen to our bodies seems like a bad idea to me. There’s plenty of natural ways to keep your testosterone from declining too rapidly. I would explore those options first.
Posted By: Cajun Raider

Re: Low "T"? - 10/19/17 09:29 PM

Sneaky, that's what I keep telling my wife! By the way, our best friends are from Winters.
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 10/19/17 11:22 PM

Not a hoax or scam at all. For some, it is genetics, for others they don't eat right, and there are those that have a disease or other issue that affects testosterone levels. Tried all the patches, gels, etc. Started on the bi-weekly injections and only regret I have is not doing it sooner. At 57 and 275 lbs I pay more attention to proteins and carbs, consume less sugar, eat less fast food. Try to hit the gym at least twice a week, sometimes 3 or 4 times depending on how I feel which is usually dictated by how much of, and quality of sleep.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 11:39 AM

It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.
Posted By: H2O Seeker

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 01:12 PM

Originally Posted By: TKM
Not a hoax or scam at all. For some, it is genetics, for others they don't eat right, and there are those that have a disease or other issue that affects testosterone levels. Tried all the patches, gels, etc. Started on the bi-weekly injections and only regret I have is not doing it sooner. At 57 and 275 lbs I pay more attention to proteins and carbs, consume less sugar, eat less fast food. Try to hit the gym at least twice a week, sometimes 3 or 4 times depending on how I feel which is usually dictated by how much of, and quality of sleep.

^^^This. Poor nutrition, lack of sleep, and inactivity with sedentary lifestyles and of course genetics all contribute. Pharma is making big jack on this too but it's a natural part of aging.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.
Posted By: scalebuster

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 02:06 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.



I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 02:07 PM

Some young guys commenting on this thread. Never say never. And that's all I have to say about that! grin
Posted By: Ojai Hunter

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.


How in the world does Testosterone substitute for a blue pill? Testosterone has nothing to do with the ability to have an erection.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 02:28 PM

I just see the advertisements on tv all the time about "oh and she'll like it too" wink wink and "make you the man you used to be" bring back and increase "passion" lol and the list goes on, if its not an effect of it they sure are trying to advertise that it is.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.


Life of a parent for a child that never grows up. So you're saying there's no case for lack of sleep, low testosterone, stress and heart attacks among U.S. Firemen? Be sure and tell that to the 100 families that have to endure those deaths every year.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.



I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.


You thought wrong.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 05:26 PM

Nope, life of a parent was pretty much the only thing there towards your comment, the rest is just my general thoughts of it.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 05:27 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
I just see the advertisements on tv all the time about "oh and she'll like it too" wink wink and "make you the man you used to be" bring back and increase "passion" lol and the list goes on, if its not an effect of it they sure are trying to advertise that it is.


Those are for erectile dysfunction meds, not testosterone. Testosterone is a vital hormone that seriously aids in body repair and rebuild. Thus making it very important for recovery, and heart health. I think you stuck your foot in your mouth on this one. wink
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 06:36 PM

TKM you might do some research and talk to your doc about increasing your injection frequency. The half-life of test cypionate is 3.5 days. By 7 days you're already at almost zero again. So you're T levels are seesawing. IMO you would be better of cutting your dose in half and taking it once a week rather bi-weekly if your doc doesn't want to double your dose frequency. Every week is pretty standard across the treatment field.

Testosterone absolutely has effects on erections and libido. Treating hypogonadism is no different than treating blood sugar in diabetics, high blood pressure, a rapid heart rate, or thyroid problems. It's a testable lab value. Arguing that it's a natural part of aging so it shouldn't be treated is like arguing that you shouldn't treat cancer because we're all going to get it eventually. When your parents get diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation or have a stroke...eh...it's part of aging just let it happen.

Low T centers are definitely banking on it. But it's not any different then opening a cancer center because more and more of us are being diagnosed with cancer.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: scalebuster
I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.


Maybe you were joking, but unless you want hungry scrawny fireman responding to pull your family from a burning house, I sure wouldn't be complaining that their job has some down time between calls!
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 10/20/17 07:08 PM

Exbellicus, I have and been thinking about doing just that. I usually try to time the injections for a Thursday so I am good for the weekend and Thursday night through Sunday nights are when I hit the gym the most. My oldest son does his weekly and says that works best for him.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 10/23/17 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I just see the advertisements on tv all the time about "oh and she'll like it too" wink wink and "make you the man you used to be" bring back and increase "passion" lol and the list goes on, if its not an effect of it they sure are trying to advertise that it is.


Those are for erectile dysfunction meds, not testosterone. Testosterone is a vital hormone that seriously aids in body repair and rebuild. Thus making it very important for recovery, and heart health. I think you stuck your foot in your mouth on this one. wink


Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a doctor by a long shot, but I do know I have seen the slew of selling points attached to testosterone therapy stuff. Or stuff on TV that is advertised as such, maybe a completely different thing, I don't know, but perhaps the process/treatment yal are talking about is something different than what limited knowledge has my mind made up to.
Posted By: txhunter1010

Re: Low "T"? - 10/23/17 06:35 PM

I have it and I have had if or the past few years. I was tired all the time, not in the best of moods, just didn't want to do much of anything. Went to the doctor and ran blood work and my testosterone was REALLY low.. went to urologist and got me on weekly shots that I could do at home and in a couple weeks started feeling so much better. Had energy, wasn't moody, and just felt better. I also got stronger in the weight room... (not that it mattered but was pretty cool)..

the only thing I didn't like was giving myself the shots so for a while I have been off of them and feel like crap again. they make other options and im gonna look into them. So low T is a real thing but it is pretty easy to fix
Posted By: fadetoblack64

Re: Low "T"? - 10/23/17 10:44 PM

About the 3rd shot..........you go wow roflmao

weiner gets bigger and your nuts shrink.

Shoot up every 4th day.....7 days will make you angry.
Posted By: Bee'z

Re: Low "T"? - 10/24/17 04:25 AM

Rocket fuel for Prostate cancer. I have to get checked soon and it will suck. Like nike said just do it.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 10/24/17 06:21 PM

Having healthy natural testosterone levels and healthy artificial testosterone levels is the same thing and studies have shown have no effect on prostate cancer or PSA screening bloodwork.

On top of that, we're all going to get prostate cancer eventually. Fortunately it's usually slow growing and frequently not treated in elderly men.

If you ask me the quality of life you get not being tired with low libido and extra bodyfat for the last 20 years of your life would be worth the risk anyway.
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 10/24/17 06:25 PM

Anyone that is over 40 and not doing Test boosts are missing out on the best part of middle age. All of the wisdom of age and the drive of a teenager. Quicker injury recovery, better sleep, lower body fat, and a feeling of general wellness. Test and HGH ARE the "Fountain of Youth".
Posted By: MS1454

Re: Low "T"? - 10/27/17 03:18 PM

test boost? Replacement therapy?

I have started taking magnesium and zinc supplements and have noticed a difference in work outs and sleep. Much cheaper too.
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 10/27/17 10:37 PM

57. previous throat cancer, thyroid damage from radiation treatment and my T levels are in the tank. Yea, I'm over weight, and have sleep apnea. Started using a CPAP about 1 1/2 years ago and started getting weekly T shots about a year ago. My energy level went up greatly. Hated the shots so recently went to daily rub in 50mg. DR laid out the risk/reward and I get tested regularly. Getting scheduled for my next colonoscopy too.
Posted By: SouthWestIron

Re: Low "T"? - 10/28/17 02:27 AM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.



I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.


You thought wrong.


He didn't think at all he just stuck his foot all the way in his mouth!
Posted By: ducknbass

Re: Low "T"? - 10/30/17 07:36 PM

JG are you a fireman? I had no idea.
Posted By: Paluxy

Re: Low "T"? - 11/02/17 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: ducknbass
JG are you a fireman? I had no idea.


roflmao
Posted By: bobcat1

Re: Low "T"? - 11/08/17 11:51 PM

Originally Posted By: txhunter1010
I have it and I have had if or the past few years. I was tired all the time, not in the best of moods, just didn't want to do much of anything. Went to the doctor and ran blood work and my testosterone was REALLY low.. went to urologist and got me on weekly shots that I could do at home and in a couple weeks started feeling so much better. Had energy, wasn't moody, and just felt better. I also got stronger in the weight room... (not that it mattered but was pretty cool)..

the only thing I didn't like was giving myself the shots so for a while I have been off of them and feel like crap again. they make other options and im gonna look into them. So low T is a real thing but it is pretty easy to fix
My Doctor talked me out of it. I have all the symptoms you named and at 61 would love more energy. I still want to do a lot of stuff but my energy is in the tank. Who's a good doctor to check into this?
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 11/10/17 04:32 PM

Quote:
[/quote]My Doctor talked me out of it. I have all the symptoms you named and at 61 would love more energy. I still want to do a lot of stuff but my energy is in the tank. Who's a good doctor to check into this?[quote]


Bobcat1
You don't have to see a specialist, go to your general Dr., they will run labs and get your T number then offer your various options such as patches, gels, shots, or implants. I can't speak to the implants, I can to the patches and gels. To me they sucked, most certainly the patches, and my T numbers continued to decline. I told my DR I wanted to do the shots, she gave me the script and I wish I had went this route much earlier. I don't know how you feel about exercise, me being at a computer all day I have to do something to work out and go to the gym three times a week. Just my $0.02 here, you will see added benefits if you eat right. There may be some that knock this but it works for me and I am in no way endorsing the name on the product. I start my mornings with 6 to 8 oz of water in a blender, add a tablespoon of honey, 3/4 cup of uncooked oats, two scoops of ON PRO isolate and hydrolyzed protein and 5 to 7 scoops of Rich Piana's egg white crystals. Before this is was two sausage,egg, and cheese taquitos with a DR Pepper at Whataburger (I called them colon cleansers), no more of them now. During the day I make a couple shakes with Piana's Real Food Sweet Potato supplement. Then what my wife cooks for supper which is generally chicken or something healthy. She maintains a body weight of 98lbs to 100 lbs, has for the 20 years we've been together. Do I eat like this 100%, no. I do like my ribeyes and taters, some shots of Patron, etc. You don't have to eat like a nut, just be reasonable.

At 57 years old, I now weigh 265, down from 290, in about 40 to 45 minutes at the gym I have moved a combined weight of between 33,000lbs to 35,000 lbs (weight X reps) just on my upper body, chest, arms shoulders, back. I have a bad lower back, bad right knee and bad left ankle so I have to watch how heavy I lift. Being a short guy at 5'9", I have a 55" chest that continues to grow. Try to walk three miles or more when I get the chance. Sometimes this is every day, sometimes it is a couple times a week depending on my travel schedule. Fyi, I no longer count the weight, just do what I feel like and try to push it when I can. Key word here is "feel" like it which usually means a good night of sleep the night before. I found I enjoy the workouts more when I don't try to compete with my last workout, just go till I start to drop on numbers of reps or have to go to lower weight.

Before the T therapy it would take me several days to recover from one of these workouts that I generally do late at night. Being on the shots I am now ready to go the next night or the second night after. They help repair your body much faster, feel much better, overall energy is much better. Again, just my 2 cents, if you pair the T replacement with at least some plan for eating decent and add a little exercise you will see better results.
Posted By: huntingag01

Re: Low "T"? - 11/14/17 03:43 AM

I hear there is a Dr in Celina all the Fireman use.
Posted By: Humble pie

Re: Low "T"? - 11/20/17 04:03 PM

go to labcorp.com fill in code for the test when making an appointment.

https://www.labcorp.com/test-menu/search?page=1&letter=T

Probably cheaper than doing it with insurance and nobody but you and labcorp have the results.
Posted By: Mike W

Re: Low "T"? - 11/22/17 10:25 PM

Biote is a bio-identical hormone treatment for men and women. Most commonly they insert pellets into the fat layer under the skin. It works very well.. the wife has been on it for a year, no more fibromyalgia, no more hot flashes, tons of energy.. I did the first treatment in June and for guys it's only every 6 months. Alot more energy, generally feel better. BCBS won't cover it and it's not cheap. But it is worth every penny. You get labs done, find out the exact dosing needed and it's about a 10 minute procedure.

Be careful with supplements, you have no idea what is really in them..
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 11/23/17 12:33 AM

The pellets are the best alternative to the shots IMO. Some people may need them every 2-3 months though, everyone is different. Especially nice for someone uncomfortable with giving themselves the weekly shot. Can't imagine driving to a doc and paying to get it done every week. They also have test shots that last 2-3 months (Aveed is the most common name)
Posted By: txmikenlisa1

Re: Low "T"? - 11/25/17 04:05 AM

Zinc and Magnesium is a good combo to boost T levels. Especially if you combine them with healthy diet changes and resistance training. High intensity strength training will do you best to boost T.

Sleep is huge. Alot of undiagnosed sleep apnea around these days. On top of already hectic schedules that cut sleep times. REM sleep is when your body does all its repairs, the less you get of it the sicker your body will be no matter how fit you look.

Clomid is an oral med that has been clinically proven to boost T when taken regularly in low dose form.

Injections are a pain, but prob the cheapest, quickest, and most effective way to boost your T. Implantable aren't as cheap, but work well. Topicals are garbage for the most part.

Gotta get your levels checked. It's nice if you can get both total and free T numbers. If your getting tested cuz you feel exhausted might as well have your thyroid, A1C, and fasting glucose levels checked as well.

Just a little info. Low T is real. T level drops are natural, and part of aging. So no matter your number if you feel fine, don't worry about it. But if you are feeling symptomatic, treat it. With what's available there is absolutely no reason to feel horrible related to a precipitous drop in your T level.
Posted By: huntindude

Re: Low "T"? - 01/02/18 03:21 PM

Asked doc about it, she said with high BP, no way in He11.
Posted By: pegasaurus

Re: Low "T"? - 01/08/18 11:44 PM

I turn 50 in a couple months and this thread is depressing me. I am also gonna need glasses this year.
Posted By: skinnerback

Re: Low "T"? - 01/09/18 02:47 AM

[quote=pegasaurus]I turn 50 in a couple months and this thread is depressing me. I am also gonna need glasses this year.
[/quote

Oh hell no. I can't imagine being that old. roflmao
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/10/18 04:35 PM

yeah one thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the testosterone injection therapy comes with a 50% increase in sudden death via heart attack in men...
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
yeah one thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the testosterone injection therapy comes with a 50% increase in sudden death via heart attack in men...


Got a source on that?
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 04:33 AM

study showing increased heart attacks with testosterone therapy

So it breaks it down by age groups, the younger group showed a 36% increase while the over 65 showed over 100% increase.

Something to think about. There are plenty of studies that show decreased heart attack risk in people with treated low T...but that begs the question what really is Low T? By lab, low T has to be really low and most people being treated currently are not being treated base solely on labs. The reference range for testosterone in wide (somewhere around 40-600) so even though you aren't in the low level, you may have what dr calls low for you....basing things on symptoms rather than labs. In these patients, is there really low T or is it a lifestyle fix? More energy, more libido, ore lean muscle, less fat, etc, etc...lifestyle stuff that in reality doesn't mean low T, but because they can, dr treats as low T. You know why? because insurance pays for it.

This whole thing came about because drs. are being reimbursed less by insurance and they needed a way to make some money. This is also the reason most offices now offer some vitamins, genetic screening, etc...they make money off the stuff. You may ask how I know this. I am a doctor and I am tired of the sales pitches these people bring to me. It used to be "this is how this will help the patient". Now it is simply "do this x number of times per month and you can make this much money"

It is sad. It is true. I am sure there are some out there with true Low T, but most people on the juice are not truly low T.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 10:50 AM

I'm skeptical that they don't have any actual lab values to indicate there is an increased 'risk.' Old people have MIs. And like you said, the next study shows reduced 'risk.'

The experts can't even decide what part of an egg we are supposed to eat or if it's going to kill us all. They're not sure which is worse. High Cholesterol or the statins they prescribe for it.

As far as profit, the same could be said for treating a number of ailments. Chemo is a gold mine for doctors, but that doesn't mean it's a scam because some patients who are prescribed it lose their fight.

I definitely agree the normal range is a huge variation. So with a 'normal' range that big isn't the only option treating the symptom? You can take two patients with a a heart rate of 50. Both outside the normal range. One is dizzy, short of breath, pale, and diaphoretic. The other is perfectly fine and has always had a low heart rate. To say they both need or do not need treatment because they have the same value would be inaccurate.

Likewise, if a patient has a total T level of 300 presents with symptoms of fatigue, low libido, lack of motivation to work or exercise, then gets treated with T and feels better it's a win. The next guy in the waiting room might measure at 200 and feel fantastic
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 11:07 AM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.


Never say never. I’m 53. Was listless, tired, no energy. I have an implant with small timed doses administered. Changed my life.

The TV/OTC stuff is junk.
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
I'm skeptical that they don't have any actual lab values to indicate there is an increased 'risk.' Old people have MIs. And like you said, the next study shows reduced 'risk.'

The experts can't even decide what part of an egg we are supposed to eat or if it's going to kill us all. They're not sure which is worse. High Cholesterol or the statins they prescribe for it.

As far as profit, the same could be said for treating a number of ailments. Chemo is a gold mine for doctors, but that doesn't mean it's a scam because some patients who are prescribed it lose their fight.

I definitely agree the normal range is a huge variation. So with a 'normal' range that big isn't the only option treating the symptom? You can take two patients with a a heart rate of 50. Both outside the normal range. One is dizzy, short of breath, pale, and diaphoretic. The other is perfectly fine and has always had a low heart rate. To say they both need or do not need treatment because they have the same value would be inaccurate.

Likewise, if a patient has a total T level of 300 presents with symptoms of fatigue, low libido, lack of motivation to work or exercise, then gets treated with T and feels better it's a win. The next guy in the waiting room might measure at 200 and feel fantastic


Just to clarify, chemo and other high dollar drugs have what's called "pass through" coverage from insurance/medicare. Meaning the doctor gets reimbursed for only the cost of the meds as they cost the doc, so no money is made on chemo, even though the reimbursement looks really large. Just a cost of doing that business.

Wanted to clarify that in case you were wondering why there are not a zillion Cancer treatment facilities popping up at every corner, like there are with Low T centers...
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 07:53 PM

You would know first hand better than me, but a quick Google search shows a lot of articles saying there is a huge profit.
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 08:00 PM

As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 08:09 PM

Funny how we study medicine and make treatment decisions based on them when they have polar opposite results
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 09:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
You would know first hand better than me, but a quick Google search shows a lot of articles saying there is a huge profit.


A huge profit for the companies making the drugs for sure, but the doctors don't make any money on the drugs themselves. If you have evidence to support they do, then please show it. But my wife worked for an oncologist and they simply got pass thru coverage for the drugs and in many other fields of medicine there are meds and devices that get pass thru coverage. Very common. But there is no way to make extra money off these things, it is illegal and insurance fraud, and anyone that makes money off the drugs other than the manufacturer is illegal.
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Funny how we study medicine and make treatment decisions based on them when they have polar opposite results


What studying of medicine do you do?

Most of the "scientific articles" out there are junk. You really need to sort through and find the well done studies and sort thru the garbage. Part of medical school and residency training involves figuring out which studies to trust and which ones are biased. NOt all biased studies are garbage, but if you set out to prove a point and set up the study to prove the point, this can be a bad thing. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. So figuring out what to believe can be tough.
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 09:34 PM

BTW, I am not trying to monopolize medical knowledge here. Just trying to offer something other than a layman's explanation and give some clout to back it up with...too often I see stuff on THF where someone spouts off about a topic they have no business giving advice. When it comes to medicine, there are a lot of opinions but much of it is old wives tales and heresay from TV, so I try to refute the silly stuff and present a scientific basis for what I say. up
Posted By: Texas buckeye

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Texasteach
As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk


First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 01/11/18 10:23 PM

I was just pointing out that there are many studies on AAS, and not conducted by your basic GP. The risks of AAS should be well researched as should any medication placed into the body. Am I a believer in moderate AAS and GH. Absolutely. Are there risks? Of course. Life is full of risks. Do they empirically improve the QUALITY of life? From my first hand experience, absolutely.

We should be more concerned about the 50 year old that is 40 lbs overweight, doesn't eat healthy, smokes and lives a sedentary lifestyle than the 50 year old who uses (rather than abuses) AAS and GH. We are all going to die at some point. Even the arrogant MD's who fail to practice what they preach.

Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Re: Low "T"? - 01/12/18 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
I turn 50 in a couple months and this thread is depressing me. I am also gonna need glasses this year.


Oh hell no. I can't imagine being that old. roflmao

You'll be there before you know it buddy.......scary fast!
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Low "T"? - 01/12/18 04:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk


First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.


My doctor took blood and told me exactly what my numbers were. Took blood as treatment administered to monitor levels also.

I would think that should be "Testoterone Therapy 101" stuff.
Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Re: Low "T"? - 01/12/18 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk


First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.


My doctor took blood and told me exactly what my numbers were. Took blood as treatment administered to monitor levels also.

I would think that should be "Testoterone Therapy 101" stuff.
You're correct....it should be 101....but I think a lot of those clinics are just selling the hype....just like botox.....
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 01/12/18 06:47 PM

I will agree with the last few posts. Also anytime you are messing with something like an AAS, you need to realize that there is no "magical pill". You still have to combine it with the proper diet and exercise to see any real results. It's like put an aggressive cam in a stock engine. It's not going to do what it is suppose to at the level it can potentially perform.

I see it all as a numbers game with risk factors:

Poor Diet (increased risks)
Not exercising (increased risks)
Smoking (increased risks)
Stress (increased risks)
Obesity (increased risks)
T Therapy (increased risks)

If I eliminate poor diet, exercise, don't smoke, no stress and not obese, then the increased risks associated with T Therapy are actually a net reduction in associated life risks.
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 01/12/18 08:04 PM

I think more low T patients know what their numbers are than most think. I have known mine for about the last twenty years, everyone I know that is on T replacement knows their numbers. I'll gladly take 15 more years of feeling like I do when I'm on it verses 20 more years of feeling like I do when I'm off it.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.



I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.


You thought wrong.


He forgot playing cards, dominoes and waxing the chief's ride.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 02:36 PM

First I thought this thread was about T-Posts, then I realized it's about Pop-Up's.
Posted By: H2O Seeker

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
First I thought this thread was about T-Posts, then I realized it's about Pop-Up's.

For some that may be accurate...unless they partake of the 'little blue or green ones'. whistle
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 02:48 PM

While all you boys are worried about your T's and Pop-Up's ya might just ask the doc to check your thyroid. Just saying! It has far more impact on your day to day well being than most people realize.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 02:59 PM

Originally Posted By: H2O Seeker
Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
First I thought this thread was about T-Posts, then I realized it's about Pop-Up's.

For some that may be accurate...unless they partake of the 'little blue or green ones'. whistle


At my age I partake more of those that are burnt orange in color, Ibuprofen.

It's been my experience that them Pop-Up's cause more problems for an old boy than a bent T-Post.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 06:38 PM

Low T therapy is not really about ED (“pop ups”). You can have low T with or without those issues. Testosterone therapy may or may not help in that area even if you do have those issues.

ED and Low T are separate issues.
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 01/14/18 09:09 PM

Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
While all you boys are worried about your T's and Pop-Up's ya might just ask the doc to check your thyroid. Just saying! It has far more impact on your day to day well being than most people realize.


An underactive thyroid would be one of the many items a dr would check for when having labs done for someone describing the issues we have mentioned on this thread.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/15/18 11:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Low T therapy is not really about ED (“pop ups”). You can have low T with or without those issues. Testosterone therapy may or may not help in that area even if you do have those issues.

ED and Low T are separate issues.


I understand but it seems the younger folk are more worried about the pop-ups. Here I am trying to have fun with a thread and your wanting to get all serious.
Posted By: HWY_MAN

Re: Low "T"? - 01/15/18 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: TKM
Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
While all you boys are worried about your T's and Pop-Up's ya might just ask the doc to check your thyroid. Just saying! It has far more impact on your day to day well being than most people realize.


An underactive thyroid would be one of the many items a dr would check for when having labs done for someone describing the issues we have mentioned on this thread.


I would hope so but my thyroid med's run about 100 dollars for a years worth and I have one visit a year (Total removal of the thyroid several years ago), what's T therapy run and how many visits are required? I'm not saying all DR's will take advantage of symptoms to make a little more money but some damn sure will. Had a little personal experience in that area.
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 01/15/18 07:08 PM

Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
Originally Posted By: TKM
[quote=HWY_MAN]While all you boys are worried about your T's and Pop-Up's ya might just ask the doc to check your thyroid. Just saying! It has far more impact on your day to day well being than most people realize.


An underactive thyroid would be one of the many items a dr would check for when having labs done for someone describing the issues we have mentioned on this thread.


I would hope so but my thyroid med's run about 100 dollars for a years worth and I have one visit a year (Total removal of the thyroid several years ago), what's T therapy run and how many visits are required? I'm not saying all DR's will take advantage of symptoms to make a little more money but some damn sure will. Had a little personal experience in that area. [/quot


I go twice a year for labs, a LP, a CMP, a TSH, a CBC, Testosterone, and general wellness check. Been on thyroid meds for 19 years, TRT for 17 years. I have a lot of experience in that area. When you start the TRT injections a dr will want to run your labs in 6 to 8 weeks, maybe again if something appears abnormal, now it is once every 6 months. I have everything done in one visit. Cost of TRT is irrelevant here if need, mine runs $160 and change per year plus cost of syringes/needles (i inject myself) Given the results/changes in my life style it would bother me one bit to pay that every month. Over the last 20 years and 40 visits i have a graph of 44 areas that show progress, decline, normal, etc. All of my results are about as close to normal as they can get. Once in a while my bad cholesterol will be just outside of where it should be and i can always attribute that to what i ate, maybe due to traveling, holidays, etc. I understand some dr's may try to take advantage of a situation, however, research, knowledge, understanding things on your end and they will only do it if you let them. For the record, my Dr didn't suggest TRT injections, i ask for them after seeing no results in all the other junk out there.

I can croak tomorrow, who knows when your time is up.
Posted By: Stub

Re: Low "T"? - 02/08/18 10:11 PM

I am only 62 and have a long way to go before I have to worry about that grin up
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 12:40 AM

Mentioned before but most people are deficient in zinc.

ZMA is a product I take and can def. recommend.

Noticable difference in how I feel when I’m taking it vs. when I’m not.

I took about 2 1/2 years off from the gym and most other physical excercise when I got married now with kids. Lack of time, laziness, etc.

Felt like crap for the last 2 years. Crappy moods, tired, lazy, staring to get a spare tire...lots of low T symptoms. Was thinking about going in for treatments ( neighbor is a tech at the T clinic). Got back to the gym, started the ZMA again and 3 weeks in feel like a million bucks....lost 6 lbs of fat and have my drive back


One big thing I noticed was my craving for sweets. Get like I was turning into a damn woman I would murder a box of brownies, donuts or cookies.

Cut out all bull crap food now I don’t even look twice at sweets
Posted By: SouthWestIron

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Mentioned before but most people are deficient in zinc.

ZMA is a product I take and can def. recommend.

Noticable difference in how I feel when I’m taking it vs. when I’m not.

I took about 2 1/2 years off from the gym and most other physical excercise when I got married now with kids. Lack of time, laziness, etc.

Felt like crap for the last 2 years. Crappy moods, tired, lazy, staring to get a spare tire...lots of low T symptoms. Was thinking about going in for treatments ( neighbor is a tech at the T clinic). Got back to the gym, started the ZMA again and 3 weeks in feel like a million bucks....lost 6 lbs of fat and have my drive back


One big thing I noticed was my craving for sweets. Get like I was turning into a damn woman I would murder a box of brownies, donuts or cookies.

Cut out all bull crap food now I don’t even look twice at sweets


I'm going to try ZMA for sure. Any recommended brand?
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: SouthWestIron
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Mentioned before but most people are deficient in zinc.

ZMA is a product I take and can def. recommend.

Noticable difference in how I feel when I’m taking it vs. when I’m not.

I took about 2 1/2 years off from the gym and most other physical excercise when I got married now with kids. Lack of time, laziness, etc.

Felt like crap for the last 2 years. Crappy moods, tired, lazy, staring to get a spare tire...lots of low T symptoms. Was thinking about going in for treatments ( neighbor is a tech at the T clinic). Got back to the gym, started the ZMA again and 3 weeks in feel like a million bucks....lost 6 lbs of fat and have my drive back


One big thing I noticed was my craving for sweets. Get like I was turning into a damn woman I would murder a box of brownies, donuts or cookies.

Cut out all bull crap food now I don’t even look twice at sweets


I'm going to try ZMA for sure. Any recommended brand?


I am currently using nugenix brand ZMA

Read the ingredients and make sure it does NOT have any calcium in it.

I only use nugenix now because it’s easy to come by and it’s a clean mix
Posted By: SouthWestIron

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 03:08 PM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SouthWestIron
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Mentioned before but most people are deficient in zinc.

ZMA is a product I take and can def. recommend.

Noticable difference in how I feel when I’m taking it vs. when I’m not.

I took about 2 1/2 years off from the gym and most other physical excercise when I got married now with kids. Lack of time, laziness, etc.

Felt like crap for the last 2 years. Crappy moods, tired, lazy, staring to get a spare tire...lots of low T symptoms. Was thinking about going in for treatments ( neighbor is a tech at the T clinic). Got back to the gym, started the ZMA again and 3 weeks in feel like a million bucks....lost 6 lbs of fat and have my drive back


One big thing I noticed was my craving for sweets. Get like I was turning into a damn woman I would murder a box of brownies, donuts or cookies.

Cut out all bull crap food now I don’t even look twice at sweets


I'm going to try ZMA for sure. Any recommended brand?


I am currently using nugenix brand ZMA

Read the ingredients and make sure it does NOT have any calcium in it.

I only use nugenix now because it’s easy to come by and it’s a clean mix


Thanks, looks like its at Walgreens. I'm trying it out.
Posted By: snake oil

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 03:23 PM

I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 04/05/18 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: snake oil
I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......



T levels absolutely affect your sex life. Mainly in the form of desire
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 04/06/18 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: snake oil
I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......


Not trying to upset you but a 71 year old man with a T level of 540 doesn't need testosterone therapy. I also don't recommend pellets. You can't adjust them once they are placed. Injections are much safer for adjusting to the right dose. If you don't need the T don't do it. It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.
Posted By: snake oil

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 12:03 PM

Originally Posted By: jetdad
Originally Posted By: snake oil
I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......


Not trying to upset you but a 71 year old man with a T level of 540 doesn't need testosterone therapy. I also don't recommend pellets. You can't adjust them once they are placed. Injections are much safer for adjusting to the right dose. If you don't need the T don't do it. It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.


The doctor that administered them said I was fine as long as it wasn't over 600 at first testing.Yes it's fertilizer for cancer. They keep a close eye on my PSA levels.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 04:35 PM

Originally Posted By: jetdad
It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.


What makes you say this? Sugar feeds cancer...
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 05:04 PM

The link between testosterone and prostate cancer is a known fact. Sugar also feeds cancer. That's why they step up or should increase the frequency of blood tests while you are doing TRT. I did TRT for several years with no issues. I had my PSA monitored (along with other hormone related levels) every 3 months. I got off the regimen for about 18 months. When I resumed my PSA was 3.8. The first blood test was done 30 days after the first injection and my PSA went to 7.0. An MRI showed cancerous lesions and a biopsy confirmed. In a way I was lucky that the TRT brought the cancer to light so it could be treated. I finished radiation in February. My urologist, oncologist and I have discussed the testosterone/cancer relationship many times. I trust what I've read and heard from both of them. It's over prescribed in my opinion.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 05:12 PM

http://jeffreydachmd.com/psa-and-testosterone-part-two/

Several studies have showed that's a myth.
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 05:21 PM

He uses the term causative in his first sentence. Notice my post says feeds NOT causes. Everybody has an opinion. I'm not going to debate you. After 40 radiation treatments I'm not interested a rehash.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 06:25 PM

As you know, cancer is a cell. All cells use sugar as energy to live and grow. No cells magically break down testosterone into a completely different element (sugar) and grow. Cancer physically cannot use testosterone to grow. It's irresponsible to get on a forum and tell people testosterone feeds cancer even if it is just your opinion. It's physically impossible for your body to accomplish.
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 10:01 PM

I'll be sure to let my doctors know that you disagree with them. After all, they only have 120 years of collective experience treating prostate cancer. Since none of them will refill my cypionate prescription, would you mind doing it for me? Thanks.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 10:12 PM

Well my doctor disagrees with your doctor. Should we have them fight? I'd love to see a study showing that cancer consumes testosterone for energy and growth.
Posted By: sig226fan (Rguns.com)

Re: Low "T"? - 04/08/18 11:18 PM

I have a blood disorder that's genetic (thallysemia anemia) and my parents were equally split between high and low blood sugar.... I have fought weight and activity levels from high to low for years...(I have weighed 190 and 300 as an adult, twice each, after not being able to gain weight as a college athlete).... I have finally found a Dr (endocrinologist) that believes in traditional meds and hormone replacement therapies combined...

Between low iron, low Vit D, A1H problems, and slightly low T, they came up with a mixture of Thyroid and other supplements, and pellets for both T and other stuff, and they monitor my blood religously as I am one of the first Thallysemia patients with this treatment, and I'll take how I feel now over the past 8 days a week.

Find a real doctor, not just a snake oil salesman.
Posted By: Dave Davidson

Re: Low "T"? - 04/13/18 12:27 PM

Best damn thread ever on the THF.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 04/15/18 01:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson
Best damn thread ever on the THF.


I believe that belongs to Indian corn and black panthers
Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Re: Low "T"? - 05/19/18 03:07 AM

Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson
Best damn thread ever on the THF.


I believe that belongs to Indian corn and black panthers

I can't believe its still going...... loco
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 05/26/18 07:40 PM

I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.
Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Re: Low "T"? - 08/14/18 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 08/14/18 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?


When the t level drops I'll do it again. The upside has been incredible. The wife and I just did a 30 mile bike ride through the hills of Arkansas yesterday. 6 months ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it.

Downside is the implant sites keep getting infected and extending. It's a pain,

I exercise daily. Lift several times per week. Swim several times. And walk daily. I can tell my stamina has increased and I'm gradually regaining strength.

The doc has taken me off almost all of my meds. Of course, my doc and cardiolist are against it.

It's made me a believer.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: Low "T"? - 08/14/18 11:33 PM

Originally Posted By: HOF
Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: HOF
I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?


When the t level drops I'll do it again. The upside has been incredible. The wife and I just did a 30 mile bike ride through the hills of Arkansas yesterday. 6 months ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it.

Downside is the implant sites keep getting infected and extending. It's a pain,

I exercise daily. Lift several times per week. Swim several times. And walk daily. I can tell my stamina has increased and I'm gradually regaining strength.

The doc has taken me off almost all of my meds. Of course, my doc and cardiolist are against it.

It's made me a believer.



Just curious, did they say why specifically? If he took you off all of your meds is he not happy with the results?

How old are you?
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 04:05 AM

Doc H, my cardiologist pationatly objected stating the risk was too high. My gp echoed the same sentiment. Same with the hic diet I did.

I'm almost 56 and old enough to take responsibility for digging myself out of the hole I dug.

Diet remains a daily struggle but the t replacement seems to help the recovery time with extra exercise. It takes it all for my body to tepid. Hardest thing I've ever done.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 04:38 AM

Gotcha...good to know. Everything has risks and benefits and sometimes quality of life is more important than the risk of shortening your quantity of life. Best of luck!
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk


First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.


My doctor took blood and told me exactly what my numbers were. Took blood as treatment administered to monitor levels also.

I would think that should be "Testoterone Therapy 101" stuff.
You're correct....it should be 101....but I think a lot of those clinics are just selling the hype....just like botox.....


So you haven’t been to a clinic that specializes in it? So you are assuming they don’t run blood 4x a year. And Go over t-levels, free T levels, esteogn levels, and full blood work up including CBC, protein, PSA’s etc...

You are preaching about one thing and making complete assumptions about others...
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Well my doctor disagrees with your doctor. Should we have them fight? I'd love to see a study showing that cancer consumes testosterone for energy and growth.


Testosterone has been linked to prostate cancer in some form, thus why the real doctors and specialize clinics monitor PSA’s and do urination surveys
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 02:26 PM

Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.


I’m just going by what the “LOW T clinic” does and why. Who knows, it could be an active study to disprove the correlation, but when asked that’s the official reasoning
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 02:47 PM

Yeah it is because there is not enough evidence to not check it when they are already drawing your blood. In the doctor's defense, it's really challenging to sift through these studies. Ill give you an example.

Here are two studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016428/
"Conclusion
In our study's results, serum testosterone at the time of diagnosis was unrelated to PSA elevation, prostate cancer risk, and aggressiveness."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5436005/
"Conclusion
Only after adjusted multivariate analysis, our results indicated that testosterone was associated with PSA levels in middle-aged healthy men."

As a MD you have two published studies here indicating different results. How do you advise your patients? It's impossible even if you're trying to be a good doc and trying to stay up with all the latest continuing education. There is just too much bias, bribes, and money to be made in the medical field to many honest studies done.
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 08/15/18 02:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Exbellicus
Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.


I have zero desire to take on either side of this argument. We are full grown men and old enough to know our decisions have consequences and we own them. A year ago, I couldn't even think of riding a bike uphill with my grandkids. This weekend, they crashed trying to keep up with pa paw.

Excellibus took the words out of my mouth. I can't express the joy, exuberance, and new found hope this program has assisted in producing. None of us want to die but short of the second coming if Christ, none of us are gonna make it out alive. For me, I don't want to be here one day longer than what God desires and I'm grateful for the opportunity to spend an active week with my kids
Posted By: mow

Re: Low "T"? - 01/02/19 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.

can you share your age,please?
Posted By: RedRanger

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 12:25 PM

My doctor recently retired and was in practice the last few years just to pass time, he wasn't money hungry.

He ran my T count, said it was a tad bit low. Told me to take some type of vitamin, I forgot now what it was, he said take it for a few months and re test. Of course I never went back.

He said some people with low or high count feel tired a lot, it more dependent on the person.

For me if I want to have more energy, I exercise daily.

It's interesting to read how it has helped some, and others no result.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by scalebuster
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.



I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.


You thought wrong.

yea, they also change smoke detectors for us old farts peep

JK dont twist out firefolks
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by mow
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.

can you share your age,please?

Ill be 33 in 2 months.
Posted By: SnakeWrangler

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by mow
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.

can you share your age,please?

Ill be 33 in 2 months.

Get back to us when you're over 50....Jes my 2cents

I can tell you there is a definable difference between 30, 40, and 50+....your time is coming....mark my words....I was a cockstrong SOB outworking 20 year olds in the oil field when I was in my 40's....after 50 all that changed dramatically......
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by SnakeWrangler
Get back to us when you're over 50....Jes my 2cents

I can tell you there is a definable difference between 30, 40, and 50+....your time is coming....mark my words....I was a cockstrong SOB outworking 20 year olds in the oil field when I was in my 40's....after 50 all that changed dramatically......

Im not saying im the tuff guy. I work my but off from time to time and ive never shied away from it. I can tell a difference in 20 and 30 no doubt. I just think it is what it is, part of getting older not a need for a medical boost. Ive been known to be an old stick in the mud from time to time. Neither of my grandfathers did it my dad isn't my FIL isn't and none of my uncles that I know of are doing it either. Unless I cant trudge on without it I don't think it will be a consideration. I do know a few guys I went to college with that were on it before they graduated, maybe my bias comes from them.
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by SnakeWrangler



I can tell you there is a definable difference between 30, 40, and 50+....your time is coming....mark my words....I was a cockstrong SOB outworking 20 year olds in the oil field when I was in my 40's....after 50 all that changed dramatically......


Amen, 50 hit me like a ton of bricks. Never say never until you wake one day and you can't lift your wife after her knee surgery. Wait until you have to call a nurse to do what you feel is your responsibility. It's more than pride and vanity for me.
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 01/03/19 11:03 PM

Low T is real and happens at any age. I'm almost 60 and have been using the gel for a couple of years now. Testing showed my levels were almost zero. Took a year of testing and experimenting to find the right daily amount. Of course, my previous cancer treatment also killed my thyroid too, so was going through that also. I'm finally at a place where I feel somewhat "normal. " This was done through my primary physician and Not one of those "clinics." Yea, the DR advised on chance of prostate cancer risks.
Posted By: Wilhunt

Re: Low "T"? - 01/04/19 02:06 AM

Good informative post in my opinion. I think one feels different about physical condition and being able to do the things you have done in the past as we age, these thought are more prevalent. If it works for you the so be it
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 01/07/19 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by SnakeWrangler
Get back to us when you're over 50....Jes my 2cents

I can tell you there is a definable difference between 30, 40, and 50+....your time is coming....mark my words....I was a cockstrong SOB outworking 20 year olds in the oil field when I was in my 40's....after 50 all that changed dramatically......

Im not saying im the tuff guy. I work my but off from time to time and ive never shied away from it. I can tell a difference in 20 and 30 no doubt. I just think it is what it is, part of getting older not a need for a medical boost. Ive been known to be an old stick in the mud from time to time. Neither of my grandfathers did it my dad isn't my FIL isn't and none of my uncles that I know of are doing it either. Unless I cant trudge on without it I don't think it will be a consideration. I do know a few guys I went to college with that were on it before they graduated, maybe my bias comes from them.


one thing you have to consider, is what is the "normal" part of getting older and how it relates generationally? Food quality and intake, alcohol intake, weight, environmental factors, levels of excercise etc. can have a tremendous effect on testosterone levels.

For instance, a modern 30 year old person today who has a 9-5 cubicle job who is 20 lbs overweight is more than likely going to have lower T levels than his dad or grandfather when they were 30, were of a healthy weight and much more active in their daily lives.


I personally believe that T levels in most cases can restored to age appropriate levels thru diet and exercise. Lifting weights on a regular basis and eating proper foods is probably the best thing anyone can do for themselves as far as investing in their lives. I am a few months shy of 34 and can tell you with 100% certainly I feel 100x's better when I've been in the gym lifting and eating properly vs. being a lazy arse and eating whatever I can get my hands on. The differences are obvious everywhere from the bedroom to the boardroom.


That being said, Low T in young to middle aged males is a common scenario and no shame in getting on a T booster to get your levels back to normal
Posted By: RedRanger

Re: Low "T"? - 01/07/19 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by mow
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.


Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.

can you share your age,please?

Ill be 33 in 2 months.


Just a pup
Posted By: Creekrunner

Re: Low "T"? - 01/07/19 12:48 PM

Yeah, "never will" has Karma, or whatever you wanna call it, written all over it.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 01/07/19 03:39 PM

Also, T therapy is not a substitute for “the little blue pill “. The pill covers one issue Test. Therapy covers many

Used Recreationally, the little blue can be a fun Time though
Posted By: freerange

Re: Low "T"? - 02/27/19 04:37 PM

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. Its been very enlightening. Compared to some threads there really wasn't a lot of badmouthing(which I hate to see on here.) Maybe the heading of the thread lured a more mature audience. A few years ago I fairly suddenly started feeling most all the normal symptoms associated with low T. My doc has tested me yearly for a few years now and he says im on the "low end of normal". He hasn't recommended anything and I haven't asked. I guess he and I just figure its what happens when you start getting some age on you. Ive never seriously considered any treatment and I don't know that I will but this discussion has opened my eyes some and sparked my interest. Once again, thanks to all the level headed opinions.
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 12:09 AM

Freerange, I agree. It is kind of weird that this was the place I got more information about T that I could trust.

I have gone from pellets, to injections, to hypoallergenic pellets. Now, I'm on the creme. It requires daily application. Some of the other older guys at the old school gym I'm at are using the creme. It is a heck of a lot cheaper than the pellets. I can't say how it works for me as I've only been on it a couple of weeks. However, if you are on the lower end of the scale,, heck if you're in the middle of the recommended scale, I'd suggest trying it. It was a game changer for me over the past year.
Posted By: TurkeyHunter

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 12:56 AM

Just noticed this thread. Almost 54 years old. Recent blood test showed low T around 140. All my other numbers are great and heart good. Bit too fat. My doc prescribed me a couple of months of the injections. Shot up the first time last Saturday. I inject myself and use the appropriate safety procedures.

I’m on a 2 week program for now. Doc wants me back in a month and a half or so to check levels at the 2 week mid point between shots.

I’m happy the THF lets us discuss these important HEALTH issues without people trashing up the thread.
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 03:34 AM

TH, I'm guessing you are on the T cipriate which has an 8 day half life. If that's the case, my doc did that to me and it put me on a roller coaster. If you stay with injections you may want to go with a greater frequency.

I assure you I am not to be considered an expert. I have very limited experience.
Posted By: TurkeyHunter

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 05:03 AM

HOF I’ve been studying and thanks for the feedback. I believe it will help in discussions with my doc. We talked about that. He wants to measure/monitor and adjust dosage. It makes sense to start off with a standard protocol and adjust based on test results.
Posted By: helomech

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 01:48 PM

My family doctor told me I was low T because of one test. I have zero symptoms of low T, so I went to a specialist. He did a complete check on me and told me he was glad I didn't start the meds, and told me I was fine. Please unless you have obvious symptoms go get a second opinion from a specialist. Once you get on those meds you are pretty much stuck on them.

The specialist told me, the blood test for Low T is not accurate. Testosterone fluctuates, it is not a stable chemical in our bodies. Unless they test you every 15 minutes for hours and take a average the test is pointless. Most docs just want to sell you a prescription. If you are Low T, you will have all the signs of being Low T.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by helomech
My family doctor told me I was low T because of one test. I have zero symptoms of low T, so I went to a specialist. He did a complete check on me and told me he was glad I didn't start the meds, and told me I was fine. Please unless you have obvious symptoms go get a second opinion from a specialist. Once you get on those meds you are pretty much stuck on them.

The specialist told me, the blood test for Low T is not accurate. Testosterone fluctuates, it is not a stable chemical in our bodies. Unless they test you every 15 minutes for hours and take a average the test is pointless. Most docs just want to sell you a prescription. If you are Low T, you will have all the signs of being Low T.


Test levels can vary by 20-25% through the day. People under extreme stress it can vary more. A lot of long distance runners for instance have clinically low T levels after a race.

But if you are in the 100’s or 200’s then regardless of the natural swings you need to get yourself checked.

One OTC supplement thst I’ve used my entire adult life is ZMA. I’m a huge believer in it. It’s a free testosterone supporter that works as you sleep. Zinc levels and test. Levels are tied together and most people are deficient in zinc.


One common theme I’m seeing with guys and low T is they almost all carry excess body fat. Whether they have low T because of the excess weight or they have excess weight because of low T is always a revolving door.

Drop the extra lbs and more than likely your T -levels will spike
Posted By: helomech

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by helomech
My family doctor told me I was low T because of one test. I have zero symptoms of low T, so I went to a specialist. He did a complete check on me and told me he was glad I didn't start the meds, and told me I was fine. Please unless you have obvious symptoms go get a second opinion from a specialist. Once you get on those meds you are pretty much stuck on them.

The specialist told me, the blood test for Low T is not accurate. Testosterone fluctuates, it is not a stable chemical in our bodies. Unless they test you every 15 minutes for hours and take a average the test is pointless. Most docs just want to sell you a prescription. If you are Low T, you will have all the signs of being Low T.


Test levels can vary by 20-25% through the day. People under extreme stress it can vary more. A lot of long distance runners for instance have clinically low T levels after a race.

But if you are in the 100’s or 200’s then regardless of the natural swings you need to get yourself checked.

One OTC supplement thst I’ve used my entire adult life is ZMA. I’m a huge believer in it. It’s a free testosterone supporter that works as you sleep. Zinc levels and test. Levels are tied together and most people are deficient in zinc.


One common theme I’m seeing with guys and low T is they almost all carry excess body fat. Whether they have low T because of the excess weight or they have excess weight because of low T is always a revolving door.

Drop the extra lbs and more than likely your T -levels will spike



The way the specialist explained it to me is that testosterone is not always produced. The levels drop, then your body produces it, and it rises. If you are tested at the bottom of that drop, you will have low numbers. He told me the numbers are not as important as looking at your body. If you are strong, healthy, not always sleepy, not having trouble in the bedroom you are probably not low t. I know some people have low T, but I truly believe it is like ADHD, and docs just want to write scripts most of the time.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 04:12 PM

The specialist is right....testosterone is not always produced. Key is finding out why its not produced. They are quick to write a prescription for injections yet don't fix the root issue ( overweight, excessive alcohol or marijuana use....yeah, smoking pot is a killer for test levels btw, lack of sleep, etc).



Test. replacement therapy is one of those over sold medical scams to get $$$ in most cases.
Posted By: HOF

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 04:17 PM

Some good info coming out of this thread. Re: Testing "T", consider doing the Dutch test. It is expensive compared to the blood test. The Dutch test is done with urine over a 24 hour period to give a different picture of what you are passing through your system. I have done blood tests 4 times over the past 9 months and one Dutch. I think all are a snap shot in time but the more snap shots the more clear the picture becomes.

Re: Second opinions on "T". For my part, the information I've received from guys using T has been more accurate than what I've gotten from several doctors. The docs recommendations vary from one end of the spectrum to the other. Online research is difficult because the landscape is littered with "Health and Wellness" docs with a bias for making money. Thus, the real value of this thread.

Re: T and weight loss...I'm a big believer that balanced T makes a huge difference in controlling belly fat. When my T was increased in conjunction with going low carb my belly fat evaporated. I'm not saying it isn't dang hard work to knock it down, because it is, but I'm convinced the T was a game changer.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by HOF

Re: T and weight loss...I'm a big believer that balanced T makes a huge difference in controlling belly fat. When my T was increased in conjunction with going low carb my belly fat evaporated. I'm not saying it isn't dang hard work to knock it down, because it is, but I'm convinced the T was a game changer.


no, its a big catch 22


that's why bodybuilders use test. replacements not only to bulk up but to cut fat.

for the average guy, they have high T levels in their Teens and early 20's, life happens, they stop being as active, which lowers T levels, they don't eat as healthy, which lowers T levels, naturally aging "Can" lower T levels ( I know guys in their 40's who have never touched a replacement but are active in life and the gym who have very high T levels) their belly fat starts to increase due to this, which lowers T levels, they drink more, which lowers T levels and before you know it...Boom!...you have clinical Low Testosterone





Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 02/28/19 09:07 PM

Too many doctors only test your testosterone levels and then put you on it. They never test the other hormones that will be affected by giving you T. Only a small percentage actually know what it does besides raising your T levels. As stated, you need all the affected baselines established.
Posted By: Exbellicus

Re: Low "T"? - 03/01/19 03:34 PM

The specialist (assuming an endocrinologist) is right about T levels varying. Just like many of your bodies hormone and chemical secretions, testosterone productions pulses. Several clinical studies have shown that T levels are highest around 7-9am. If you want to see your peak levels, your bloodwork should be done around then. That's because the majority of T production is done during REM sleep. In my opinion the part you're misunderstanding from your specialist is the low between production doesn't just drop to zero. between hormone pulses. There are plenty of charts online based on 24-hr T testing available for you to see, but the summary is if you're testing your levels late in the afternoon, you're probably seeing your peak value cut down 30-50%.

Another myth - once on TRT always on TRT. Simply not true. You can stop at any time. There are different treatments to speed up the process (usually a regimen of Clomid and sometimes HCG) but your body's natural systems will take back over. I've personally quit cold turkey after 3 years and had my natural levels come back to what they were before I started.

Symptoms - just because you don't have ALL the symptoms of low T doesn't mean you don't have it. That's a ridiculous statement. Nothing in the medical field works like that or we wouldn't need doctors to help diagnose issues.

Absolutely, your doctor should be testing more than just your total testosterone. There are many other factors of diagnosing low T issues. Free testosterone, Estrogen, LH, FSH, SHBG, PSA should all be checked on a standard male hormone panel. If your doctor isn't checking these things, he/she is half-assing your treatment program. Just because your one doctor didn't check these other things, I don't know why you would automatically assume "most" aren't checking them and just trying to scam you. My Testosterone without using any insurance costs less per month than multi-vitamins.

By the way, anyone can get their own bloodwork done any time without a doctor prescription. You pay the fee ($74) and there are labs all over the place you can take 5 minutes and get your results in a couple days. The results will show you all the normal ranges compared to what your are, if any. Link Here
Posted By: rogerh

Re: Low "T"? - 03/20/19 01:02 AM

I think I have low T and my endo has asked me many times if I am tired or run down but I've always said no. Type 2 diabetic 5'7 160lbs don't exercise but am on my feet all day ( auto repair business). Was talking to a friend of mine that several of his friends

had been diagnosed with low T and put on various meds and it has made a world of difference for them.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 01:39 PM

Old thread but for about a year I have been irritable, super fatigued, hanging on to belly fat even though I eat good and donā€™t drink, and have low libido. Recently had full labs done at the family doc and he went over 4 pages of results from labcorp. My test is 249.

He started me on once a week injections and a pill to take 12 hours after the shot (estrogen blocker).

Gave myself the first shot last night (after about an hour of internal struggle lol). Shot wasnā€™t bad at all.
Hopefully It helps.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 01:40 PM

36 y/o in a week btw.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
Old thread but for about a year I have been irritable, super fatigued, hanging on to belly fat even though I eat good and donā€™t drink, and have low libido. Recently had full labs done at the family doc and he went over 4 pages of results from labcorp. My test is 249.

He started me on once a week injections and a pill to take 12 hours after the shot (estrogen blocker).

Gave myself the first shot last night (after about an hour on internal struggle lol). Shot wasnā€™t bad at all.
Hopefully It helps.



Did he offer any insight as to why it was so low?

That seems like a extremely low number for a 36 year old male.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:09 PM

He did not. Everything else was normal though. Iā€™ve got my lab results here in front of me but I donā€™t know what a lot of It is.
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
He did not. Everything else was normal though. Iā€™ve got my lab results here in front of me but I donā€™t know what a lot of It is.


Low T counts can be genetic, environmental, diet or lack of exercise. 36 actually is around the age range where the first big drop offs occur. TRT will change your life for the better. All that you are doing is restoring what living has taken away from you. If you really want to feel the boost, start working out regularly. It will jump starts everything.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Texasteach
Originally Posted by cbump
He did not. Everything else was normal though. Iā€™ve got my lab results here in front of me but I donā€™t know what a lot of It is.


Low T counts can be genetic, environmental, diet or lack of exercise. 36 actually is around the age range where the first big drop offs occur. TRT will change your life for the better. All that you are doing is restoring what living has taken away from you. If you really want to feel the boost, start working out regularly. It will jump starts everything.


Iā€™m looking forward to It! Iā€™m marathon training now (which has been kind of struggle with low energy). Run quite a bit.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:36 PM

Doc said itā€™ll help with recovery on my runs as well.
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
Doc said itā€™ll help with recovery on my runs as well.


That it will. It is a dirty little secret that TRT therapy use to be the standard in the UFC, but it was eliminated. It doesn't take huge doses of Test to make you feel 21 again.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 03:04 PM

I'm sure it is in here, but what are the negatives? I have heard could lead to enlarged prostate/prostate cancer?
Posted By: Kevin_M

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by Texican
I'm sure it is in here, but what are the negatives? I have heard could lead to enlarged prostate/prostate cancer?



Your doctor should also be checking your PSA levels when you get your blood work done. The biggest risk is an increase in red blood cells. As long as your doc is checking that , you should be good to go. If your count gets too high, they will have you donate blood, as it can make your blood thicker and can cause all sorts of problems.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 03:58 PM

Luckily you can just do this grin

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Texasteach

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Texican
I'm sure it is in here, but what are the negatives? I have heard could lead to enlarged prostate/prostate cancer?


As Kevin said, have your blood work done and become a blood donor. And one way to prevent enlarged prostate is Cialis (what the medicine was originally intended for). Increased libido and unlimited erections...definitely a win/win...lol.

https://www.webmd.com/men/news/20111006/fda-approves-cialis-to-treat-enlarged-prostate
Posted By: Gravytrain

Re: Low "T"? - 09/03/21 04:49 PM

Cialis and the other one felt like they hurt my vision with each dose and it's been permanent. I got the low T, I think losing weight might help it. We'll see.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 04:29 PM

One thing that has sucked is my back keeps breaking out. Iā€™ve never had pimples in my life. Itā€™s wearing me out.
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 04:43 PM

I take the testosterone gel daily. Never experienced skin breakouts. Dr just said the Feds are more strictly regulating it now so I will need testing every 6mo vs yearly now. Same with my sleep meds, Sounds like a money grab.
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
One thing that has sucked is my back keeps breaking out. Iā€™ve never had pimples in my life. Itā€™s wearing me out.


What is your level now? How regular are you tested? The time of day can make a big difference in your T level. Morning, before 10:00 AM can be substantially different from later in the day. What dosage are you taking?
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 06:09 PM

Iā€™m taking 1ml every Thursday night. Getting tested every 3 months for now but only been back once so far.

Initial bloodwork was 200s
There months later was about 1200 but I did It wrong and scheduled by bloodwork just a few days after my shot. So they rescheduled It for 3 months later and told me to make sure a week had passed since my last shot.

Iā€™m due for that now.
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 07:07 PM

What time of day did they draw your blood? How are you feeling? What kind of doctor is prescribing for you? You should be getting checked more often until a good solid baseline measure can be established. I got an initial loading dose of 2ml and then I injected 1ml, once a week. I felt like hammered chit. The measurement stops at 1600 and mine was 1600. I have no idea how far above 1600 I was. Big mistake. Once it goes in you can't get it out. That's why I'm not a big fan of the pellets. Everybody is different in how their receptors accept the dose. I figured out you need to have some patience. Start at lower levels and work your way up to find what works for you. There are too many doctors on the T replacement therapy bandwagon and there are those that don't really know what they're doing.
The pimples on your back is a symptom of too much T. Have you been short tempered/irritable? Be careful about what you put in your body. I'm convinced my kidney issues started with the excessive dose I got.
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 07:22 PM

Yes I have been irritable. And not sleeping as much.
I donā€™t know that I feel much different than before as far as better except Iā€™m less tired.
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 07:42 PM

I had the best results with Axiron. It's a liquid made by Eli Lilly. I'm not sure they still make it. I never could get the shots to work right. I quit using testosterone when I developed prostate cancer. T therapy doesn't cause cancer but many doctors will tell you that it feeds it. I don't want to risk it at this point. I did the creams, gels, liquid and shots. I've forgotten way more than i know at this point. I had a retired airline pilot buddy that researched the crap out it looking for the holy grail and he never found his happy place either.

My best THF diagnosis for you is to start lower and work your way up on the injections. Try the gels/liquids. They were a bit cost prohibitive for me at the time. You could get coupons from the manufacturer but once they quit giving those, man it got expensive quick. 2-300 hundred a month. Monitor your PSA levels and watch for spikes. Develop a baseline graph for your T levels and PSA so you can really track them. Note the time of day they draw blood. If your doctor tells you it doesn't matter, find another doctor.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
Iā€™m taking 1ml every Thursday night. Getting tested every 3 months for now but only been back once so far.

Initial bloodwork was 200s
There months later was about 1200 but I did It wrong and scheduled by bloodwork just a few days after my shot. So they rescheduled It for 3 months later and told me to make sure a week had passed since my last shot.

Iā€™m due for that now.


You want it 800-1000. Over1000 get hairline loss and your back
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
Yes I have been irritable. And not sleeping as much.
I donā€™t know that I feel much different than before as far as better except Iā€™m less tired.


High test means high Estrogen. Need a prescription estrogen blocker or order some DIM(vitamin) and take it everyday day (100-300mg)
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 08:45 PM

Problem with the weekly shots is your levels are up at the time of the shot but steadily decline in the week before your next shot. Daily gel keeps things level. I do 5 grams one day followed by 10 grams the next to keep my level in the 500's..
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 01/26/22 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by cbump
Yes I have been irritable. And not sleeping as much.
I donā€™t know that I feel much different than before as far as better except Iā€™m less tired.


High test means high Estrogen. Need a prescription estrogen blocker or order some DIM(vitamin) and take it everyday day (100-300mg)



I take estrogen blocker 12 hours after every shot
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by cbump
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by cbump
Yes I have been irritable. And not sleeping as much.
I donā€™t know that I feel much different than before as far as better except Iā€™m less tired.


High test means high Estrogen. Need a prescription estrogen blocker or order some DIM(vitamin) and take it everyday day (100-300mg)



I take estrogen blocker 12 hours after every shot


Your t is real high so esto will be also, may not be enough. Blood work will tell all
Posted By: Biscuit

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 01:52 PM

I am about to turn 50 and have a physical this will be my first t test ā€¦if Iā€™m low and need supplemental , which is preferred? Shot , cream, under the skin thing ?
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Biscuit
I am about to turn 50 and have a physical this will be my first t test ā€¦if Iā€™m low and need supplemental , which is preferred? Shot , cream, under the skin thing ?


Shot on an every 4th day cycle.

Done 7 and 14. 4th is best option to keep things consistent
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 03:13 PM

I like the convenience and low cost of the gel. Shots will not give you constant levels.
Posted By: CharlieCTx

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 03:37 PM

When I turned 30, I seemed to recall something like "Flirty 30" and 40 was "Lordy lordy, he's 40". 50 was "Nifty 50" or something. I'll turn 60 in Sept and all I can think of is "F**k, I'm 60". smile

I don't ever recall a T measurement until 3-4 years ago when I commented on feeling run down. My GP was always against any T modification therapy for some reason and wanted to punt the discussion to my Urologist. The GP retired last year. Per the Uro, I have an exceptional sized Prostate, but for the most part, don't really have any issues from it. I think I was down to 175 or close to it for a T level, Uro started me on Clomiphene and did tell me it would run out per se over time. I've gone from 700-800 when started, down to 300 or so I believe, so I'll need to make a next step decision before too long. PSA is like 1.8 and been pretty consistent there.

Bobo, I'm not sure I'm following... You're doing a shot every 4 days? What's the 7 & 14?

Charlie
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 01/27/22 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
When I turned 30, I seemed to recall something like "Flirty 30" and 40 was "Lordy lordy, he's 40". 50 was "Nifty 50" or something. I'll turn 60 in Sept and all I can think of is "F**k, I'm 60". smile

I don't ever recall a T measurement until 3-4 years ago when I commented on feeling run down. My GP was always against any T modification therapy for some reason and wanted to punt the discussion to my Urologist. The GP retired last year. Per the Uro, I have an exceptional sized Prostate, but for the most part, don't really have any issues from it. I think I was down to 175 or close to it for a T level, Uro started me on Clomiphene and did tell me it would run out per se over time. I've gone from 700-800 when started, down to 300 or so I believe, so I'll need to make a next step decision before too long. PSA is like 1.8 and been pretty consistent there.

Bobo, I'm not sure I'm following... You're doing a shot every 4 days? What's the 7 & 14?

Charlie



Yes, I'm on a shot every forth day(self inject at home). I've done gel, and shot calculated intervals of 4, 7 and 14 days

Been on TRT for about 6 years and have very extensive blood work to show consistency of each method.

Gel consistency is similar to Pellet. Itā€™s consistent but at a lower level/utilization. Itā€™s a Waste of my time

The most consistent with normal range of T and Free T for me has been a shot every 4th day. I havent had to adjust dosage in a year and a half. Iā€™m pretty level At 850 by fourth day

I donā€™t recommend 14 day intervals to any one as itā€™s a pretty big crash day 9-10, 7 is ok, but forth is very consistent and Iā€™m also not getting many if any estro spikes


I did the clomid when we decided on second child. Itā€™s not same class as compared to T shots
Posted By: guysamson

Re: Low "T"? - 04/12/22 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
When I turned 30, I seemed to recall something like "Flirty 30" and 40 was "Lordy lordy, he's 40". 50 was "Nifty 50" or something. I'll turn 60 in Sept and all I can think of is "F**k, I'm 60". smile

I don't ever recall a T measurement until 3-4 years ago when I commented on feeling run down. My GP was always against any T modification therapy for some reason and wanted to punt the discussion to my Urologist. The GP retired last year. Per the Uro, I have an exceptional sized Prostate, but for the most part, don't really have any issues from it. I think I was down to 175 or close to it for a T level, Uro started me on Clomiphene and did tell me it would run out per se over time. I've gone from 700-800 when started, down to 300 or so I believe, so I'll need to make a next step decision before too long. PSA is like 1.8 and been pretty consistent there.

Bobo, I'm not sure I'm following... You're doing a shot every 4 days? What's the 7 & 14?

Charlie



Yes, I'm on a shot every forth day(self inject at home). I've done gel, and shot calculated intervals of 4, 7 and 14 days

Been on TRT for about 6 years and have very extensive blood work to show consistency of each method.

Gel consistency is similar to Pellet. Itā€™s consistent but at a lower level/utilization. Itā€™s a Waste of my time

The most consistent with normal range of T and Free T for me has been a shot every 4th day. I havent had to adjust dosage in a year and a half. Iā€™m pretty level At 850 by fourth day

I donā€™t recommend 14 day intervals to any one as itā€™s a pretty big crash day 9-10, 7 is ok, but forth is very consistent and Iā€™m also not getting many if any estro spikes


I did the clomid when we decided on second child. Itā€™s not same class as compared to T shots


This right here ^^^ highly recommend doing the closer interval shots. Even on 7 day schedule you can feel a big bump the first couple days and then the lag when you're close to your next shot.

Doing it on a shorter interval (more frequent shots) mimics your body's natural test production more closely. I haven't had any issues with high Estrogen levels (*knock on wood*) with the shorter interval.

Even to the people that are skeptical it can't hurt to go in and get a full blood panel just to see where you are.
Posted By: Gravytrain

Re: Low "T"? - 04/13/22 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Cialis and the other one felt like they hurt my vision with each dose and it's been permanent. I got the low T, I think losing weight might help it. We'll see.


It went up from 270 to 430 after losing 70lbs
Posted By: 10 Gauge

Re: Low "T"? - 06/14/22 07:25 AM

Testosterone is a miracle drug. They have been experimenting with it for darn near a hundred years now. Due to steroid abuse by pro athletes and bodybuilders it was maligned by the public and the media, so f* the science. Until now!

Testosterone literally makes you harder to kill. Makes you heal faster. Gives you more energy. Increases bone density. Improves your memory and cognitive function.

There are also certain types of cancer that are fueled by testosterone. I think the benefits justify the risks.

The only thing holding me back from testing and going on T is my job. With my work schedule (trucker) it is pretty well impossible for me to get in to see the doctor as regularly as it takes. Itā€™s too highly regulated and supervised, just not a realistic thing for me to do right now.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 06/14/22 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
Testosterone is a miracle drug. They have been experimenting with it for darn near a hundred years now. Due to steroid abuse by pro athletes and bodybuilders it was maligned by the public and the media, so f* the science. Until now!

Testosterone literally makes you harder to kill. Makes you heal faster. Gives you more energy. Increases bone density. Improves your memory and cognitive function.

There are also certain types of cancer that are fueled by testosterone. I think the benefits justify the risks.

The only thing holding me back from testing and going on T is my job. With my work schedule (trucker) it is pretty well impossible for me to get in to see the doctor as regularly as it takes. Itā€™s too highly regulated and supervised, just not a realistic thing for me to do right now.


You can do at home shipped. A lot of companies do 30 day supply, then auto ship from injection history via their app
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 06/14/22 12:57 PM

FYI, went to a different doctor who monitors better. First visit his words when I asked what my T currently was: ā€œundetectably high, my friendā€. eek2

He cut my dosage back and I feel 100% better. Less horny though lmao
Posted By: Biscuit

Re: Low "T"? - 06/14/22 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by cbump
FYI, went to a different doctor who monitors better. First visit his words when I asked what my T currently was: ā€œundetectably high, my friendā€. eek2

He cut my dosage back and I feel 100% better. Less horny though lmao


How often do you take now ? Weekly ?
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 07/13/22 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Cialis and the other one felt like they hurt my vision with each dose and it's been permanent. I got the low T, I think losing weight might help it. We'll see.


It went up from 270 to 430 after losing 70lbs


How did you lose the weight?
Posted By: Gravytrain

Re: Low "T"? - 07/13/22 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Texican
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Cialis and the other one felt like they hurt my vision with each dose and it's been permanent. I got the low T, I think losing weight might help it. We'll see.


It went up from 270 to 430 after losing 70lbs


How did you lose the weight?


Basically, I started at 1900 calories a day measured to the gram and walked a mile. Worked my way down to 1200 calories a day and walking 3 miles, felt like crap. Went back up to 1600 calories a day and 3 miles for several months felt good.
Now I'm at 1900 calories a day and 3 miles. Oh I've lost 100 lbs now from my heaviest (285, but a few months before the start of the diet). I weighed in at 179 this morning. 175 is about as light as i want to go. Started the diet at 265. Going to up the calories
to 2150 when I hit 175.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 07/14/22 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Originally Posted by Texican
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
Cialis and the other one felt like they hurt my vision with each dose and it's been permanent. I got the low T, I think losing weight might help it. We'll see.


It went up from 270 to 430 after losing 70lbs


How did you lose the weight?


Basically, I started at 1900 calories a day measured to the gram and walked a mile. Worked my way down to 1200 calories a day and walking 3 miles, felt like crap. Went back up to 1600 calories a day and 3 miles for several months felt good.
Now I'm at 1900 calories a day and 3 miles. Oh I've lost 100 lbs now from my heaviest (285, but a few months before the start of the diet). I weighed in at 179 this morning. 175 is about as light as i want to go. Started the diet at 265. Going to up the calories
to 2150 when I hit 175.


Curious....typical meal(s)?
Posted By: Gravytrain

Re: Low "T"? - 07/14/22 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Texican

Curious....typical meal(s)?




"Shakeys lasagna" has the same calories and protein as my homemade, so i just use it instead as a place holder.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: cbump

Re: Low "T"? - 07/17/22 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Biscuit
Originally Posted by cbump
FYI, went to a different doctor who monitors better. First visit his words when I asked what my T currently was: ā€œundetectably high, my friendā€. eek2

He cut my dosage back and I feel 100% better. Less horny though lmao


How often do you take now ? Weekly ?



Sorry for the late reply. Still weekly but went from 1 to 0.8 ml
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 07/17/22 06:39 PM

Start low and work your way up. Don't start high and work your way down. I too got too much and it really made me feel awful. That's why I wouldn't do the pellets. Once they are there you can't get them out. I started haveing kidney issues shortly after the overdose. I still believe too much T was the cause. There's a place for it but be careful how you approach it. There are a lot of doctors out there that will just throw it at you without safely monitoring the other effects it has.
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 07/20/22 03:11 PM

Been on the gel for years. Thought I wanted off it so I let my prescription run out. Felt like crap ever since...absolutely no energy. I have a new prescription processing now.
Posted By: Tightline

Re: Low "T"? - 08/17/22 08:00 PM

Dont forget your hemotocrit levels.
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 08/18/22 07:42 PM

Been back on the juice for almost a month now. Feel better but maybe still a bit low. I'll get tested in the next 2 weeks.
Posted By: TurkeyHunter

Re: Low "T"? - 08/18/22 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tightline
Dont forget your hemotocrit levels.


I give blood regularly. That helps. This was a good reminder. Now giving blood as I type.
Posted By: Sewer rat

Re: Low "T"? - 08/19/22 05:10 PM

I didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if I am restating the obvious. I started TRT about three years ago. It was amazing, It improved my focus, clarity, and sex drive. It is the best thing I have ever done. I think it is cheap I would pay ten times what it costs after seeing the benefits. I am sure this is TMI (too much information) but since starting TRT I wake up every day with a boner. This hasn't happened since I was in my early 20's. The wife loves it and I feel like a rock star.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 09/19/22 02:03 PM

Curious - did yall go to your regular doctor? Or one of the mens health / TRT clinics?
Posted By: TurkeyHunter

Re: Low "T"? - 09/19/22 04:06 PM

My regular doctor, family physician. Iā€™d trust them more than someone selling a T program. Just get your doc to do a blood test or include it in your annual.

If you havenā€™t had an annual physical in awhile then go get one.

Study T delivery methods before going to your doc. That way youā€™re informed. Be prepared to give yourself injections. Not a big deal.
Posted By: DocHorton

Re: Low "T"? - 10/31/22 05:23 AM

For you guys on the T shots....at what age did you start taking them? Are you planning on taking them forever?
Posted By: nsmike

Re: Low "T"? - 10/31/22 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by TurkeyHunter
My regular doctor, family physician. Iā€™d trust them more than someone selling a T program. Just get your doc to do a blood test or include it in your annual.

If you havenā€™t had an annual physical in awhile then go get one.

Study T delivery methods before going to your doc. That way youā€™re informed. Be prepared to give yourself injections. Not a big deal.

I see my Urologist yearly, we talked about it and ran the test, I was right in the middle. Nothing beats having the proper test and knowing for sure.
Posted By: presley

Re: Low "T"? - 02/18/23 10:40 PM

This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.
Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: Low "T"? - 02/19/23 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.

Mine has tested ā€˜almostā€™ low several times consistently, around 350-380. I started taking this one after reading reviews and asking around.Iā€™ve been taking it not quite a year. Itā€™s $100 a month at GNC (in store). Tested two weeks ago, I was 682! Iā€™m a believer.


https://www.gnc.com/testosterone-support-1/967103.html#q=Pmd%2Btestosterone&lang=default&start=3

[Linked Image]
Posted By: TPACK

Re: Low "T"? - 02/19/23 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.

Mine has tested ā€˜almostā€™ low several times consistently, around 350-380. I started taking this one after reading reviews and asking around.Iā€™ve been taking it not quite a year. Itā€™s $100 a month at GNC (in store). Tested two weeks ago, I was 682! Iā€™m a believer.


https://www.gnc.com/testosterone-support-1/967103.html#q=Pmd%2Btestosterone&lang=default&start=3

[Linked Image]


Can you bust rocks with it?
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Low "T"? - 02/19/23 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.

Mine has tested ā€˜almostā€™ low several times consistently, around 350-380. I started taking this one after reading reviews and asking around.Iā€™ve been taking it not quite a year. Itā€™s $100 a month at GNC (in store). Tested two weeks ago, I was 682! Iā€™m a believer.


https://www.gnc.com/testosterone-support-1/967103.html#q=Pmd%2Btestosterone&lang=default&start=3

[Linked Image]


why wouldnt you just do test replacement, its same cost a month and be at 800-900 and 20-25 free T
Posted By: jetdad

Re: Low "T"? - 02/19/23 03:26 PM

Be sure you have your blood drawn at the same time of day. Testosterone is higher in the morning than it is in the afternoon. Establish a good baseline to go from.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 02/21/23 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.



I use Nugenix Ultimate and ZMA. Take the ZMA nightly and cycle the Ultimate month on 2 weeks off.

Last T test was 687 I believe.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 03/06/23 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.



I use Nugenix Ultimate and ZMA. Take the ZMA nightly and cycle the Ultimate month on 2 weeks off.

Last T test was 687 I believe.



What was it prior?
Posted By: Dave Davidson

Re: Low "T"? - 03/07/23 02:08 AM

I just turned 80 and went to the sidelines about 7 or 8 years ago. I tried the blue pill and a couple of others without any good effects.
Posted By: TKM

Re: Low "T"? - 03/07/23 03:12 AM

A few years ago i went from 1ml every 14 days to 1/2ml each week. Four shots a month cost me $8.12
Posted By: Ramsey

Re: Low "T"? - 08/03/23 12:40 AM

My T level was 27 2 years ago instead of 600. Started taking moderate dose testosterone (about $30 a month) and my cognative ability recovered to normal. I am in the best health currently than anytime in yhe past 15 years. I will lose eventually, but wade war on father time by lifting weights and being active.
Posted By: Grit

Re: Low "T"? - 08/05/23 04:11 PM

Just when I think my T has hit rock bottom, I'll have a burst of anger and want to tear a fence down with my bare hands. Lol.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 08/07/23 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Grit
Just when I think my T has hit rock bottom, I'll have a burst of anger and want to tear a fence down with my bare hands. Lol.


My wife rages like that tooā€¦it isnā€™t a sign of high test levels
Posted By: Stevarino

Re: Low "T"? - 10/17/23 03:52 PM

So Iā€™m going down this path currently. Been feeling extremely anxious out of no where, like crazy anxious. I feel extremely tired from the time I wake until bedtime. My focus and energy have declined significantly in a short time. So, I did a panel on Saturday, and a panel on Monday which both reveled low t levels. Everything else seems really good but I did ask for a sleep study too. Personally, I think I have a little sleep apnea which could be driving this issue. Weā€™ll see, but as of now, they put me on a small anti depressant which I donā€™t want, but Iā€™ll accept it for now until we get through the sleep study. Iā€™m only 41, so Iā€™m somewhat shocked at the low levels but glad I have some reasoning for my current mental state. I really donā€™t want to take hormone injections at my age, but Iā€™ll report back with progress after the sleep study and the plan. For the record, Iā€™m at 191 this morning
Posted By: bigbob_ftw

Re: Low "T"? - 10/17/23 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Stevarino
So Iā€™m going down this path currently. Been feeling extremely anxious out of no where, like crazy anxious. I feel extremely tired from the time I wake until bedtime. My focus and energy have declined significantly in a short time. So, I did a panel on Saturday, and a panel on Monday which both reveled low t levels. Everything else seems really good but I did ask for a sleep study too. Personally, I think I have a little sleep apnea which could be driving this issue. Weā€™ll see, but as of now, they put me on a small anti depressant which I donā€™t want, but Iā€™ll accept it for now until we get through the sleep study. Iā€™m only 41, so Iā€™m somewhat shocked at the low levels but glad I have some reasoning for my current mental state. I really donā€™t want to take hormone injections at my age, but Iā€™ll report back with progress after the sleep study and the plan. For the record, Iā€™m at 191 this morning


could very well be apnea. I have a sever case and have been on a cpap since my 20's. can't sleep without it now.
Posted By: Stevarino

Re: Low "T"? - 10/17/23 09:06 PM

My wife swears up and down that I snore, but I donā€™t believe her grin
Posted By: Jimbo1

Re: Low "T"? - 10/17/23 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Stevarino
My wife swears up and down that I snore, but I donā€™t believe her grin

ENT can probably help with that snoring. I would try anything first to avoid that damn CPAP.
Posted By: txtrophy85

Re: Low "T"? - 10/18/23 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by presley
This a long thread and I have not read every post so if this has been discussed, let me know. Has anyone tried Nugenix or another low T supplement instead of going to TRT? I asked my primary during my last physical and he recommended it.



I use Nugenix Ultimate and ZMA. Take the ZMA nightly and cycle the Ultimate month on 2 weeks off.

Last T test was 687 I believe.





Updateā€¦.

Had to get off Nugenix.

Liver enzymes were elevated to a point that I was risking liver damage. Will test for testosterone levels and report back.
Posted By: coachwhite34

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 02:38 PM

This is something I have researched a lot. There is lots of evidence that most men don't have "low T". It is now being shown your T doesn't get lower as we age like they think. Low T is mostly due to poor diets. Most men don't eat enough good fats. T is dispersed throughout your system through good fat cells (Olive oil, coconut oil, avocados, fish oil, etc.). I had my T levels checked two years ago and they were low. I now eat one meal a day, the meal is very large but all good, healthy food. I eat a protein, vegetable, spinach salad with avocado, 3 eggs, peppers, carrots with hummus, cup of nuts and then a bowl of cottage cheese with various berries and some honey and scoop of all natural peanut butter. I started lifting weights again and drink a all natrual bone broth protein powder after working out but otherwise fast between my one meal. At my last doctors visit my T levels were through the roof and she told me I had higher T than most 10 years younger than me.

Point is, taking artificial T boosters etc isn' the answer, fuel yourself properly. Im 42 years old and the transformation my body has gone through the last 5 months is astounding. Im planning my first 3 day fast pretty soon and lots of research that shows that will increase T levels as well drop you bad cholestoral, etc, thought mine is very low now.
Posted By: DannyB

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by coachwhite34
I started lifting weights again and drink a all natrual bone broth protein powder after working out but otherwise fast between my one meal. At my last doctors visit my T levels were through the roof and she told me I had higher T than most 10 years younger than me.


I'm curious about this bone broth protein. I had a knee pop a couple of months ago and went from walking 2-3 miles a day to barely walking. The Orthopedic doctor said I have an arthritic cyst in that knee. He said he doesn't see the need for knee replacement yet, which is great. However, this knee is giving me Hell!

After reading your post a quick search finds numerous credible medical institutions that say bone broth protein might help osteoarthritis. In years past there have been plenty of articles saying that without regulation some supplements are pixie dust vs. something beneficial. What brand of bone broth protein are you using?
Posted By: coachwhite34

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 04:48 PM

[Linked Image]


Purchased from Amazon


If you are a deer hunter like myself, we make our own bone broth from the deer we kill, heat it up and drink a bowl a day.
Posted By: DannyB

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 05:06 PM

Thanks for the feedback Coach! I'll ask the Ortho doc at my next visit what he thinks. I'll try anything to avoid surgery.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by coachwhite34
This is something I have researched a lot. There is lots of evidence that most men don't have "low T". It is now being shown your T doesn't get lower as we age like they think. Low T is mostly due to poor diets. Most men don't eat enough good fats. T is dispersed throughout your system through good fat cells (Olive oil, coconut oil, avocados, fish oil, etc.). I had my T levels checked two years ago and they were low. I now eat one meal a day, the meal is very large but all good, healthy food. I eat a protein, vegetable, spinach salad with avocado, 3 eggs, peppers, carrots with hummus, cup of nuts and then a bowl of cottage cheese with various berries and some honey and scoop of all natural peanut butter. I started lifting weights again and drink a all natrual bone broth protein powder after working out but otherwise fast between my one meal. At my last doctors visit my T levels were through the roof and she told me I had higher T than most 10 years younger than me.

Point is, taking artificial T boosters etc isn' the answer, fuel yourself properly. Im 42 years old and the transformation my body has gone through the last 5 months is astounding. Im planning my first 3 day fast pretty soon and lots of research that shows that will increase T levels as well drop you bad cholestoral, etc, thought mine is very low now.


I assume food intake is the primary driver in your success. But what about the fasting piece? Did you change diets first, and then fast? Or was it all at once.

Trying to quantify the benefits of each. I truly do not think I could make it on one meal a day (for various reasons) .
Posted By: coachwhite34

Re: Low "T"? - 12/05/23 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Texican
Originally Posted by coachwhite34
This is something I have researched a lot. There is lots of evidence that most men don't have "low T". It is now being shown your T doesn't get lower as we age like they think. Low T is mostly due to poor diets. Most men don't eat enough good fats. T is dispersed throughout your system through good fat cells (Olive oil, coconut oil, avocados, fish oil, etc.). I had my T levels checked two years ago and they were low. I now eat one meal a day, the meal is very large but all good, healthy food. I eat a protein, vegetable, spinach salad with avocado, 3 eggs, peppers, carrots with hummus, cup of nuts and then a bowl of cottage cheese with various berries and some honey and scoop of all natural peanut butter. I started lifting weights again and drink a all natrual bone broth protein powder after working out but otherwise fast between my one meal. At my last doctors visit my T levels were through the roof and she told me I had higher T than most 10 years younger than me.

Point is, taking artificial T boosters etc isn' the answer, fuel yourself properly. Im 42 years old and the transformation my body has gone through the last 5 months is astounding. Im planning my first 3 day fast pretty soon and lots of research that shows that will increase T levels as well drop you bad cholestoral, etc, thought mine is very low now.


I assume food intake is the primary driver in your success. But what about the fasting piece? Did you change diets first, and then fast? Or was it all at once.

Trying to quantify the benefits of each. I truly do not think I could make it on one meal a day (for various reasons) .



I was a fairly healthy eater for the most part before I went this route but it was basically all at once, the first two or three days were somewhat tough but your body will adjust pretty quick to the point where I just don't get hungry until about the time I eat everyday. Im just way more strict on what I eat then I was. The thing that is great about eating once a day is if you do have a cheat meal you fast for 24 hours and it easier to get over it. You fast and get it out of your system without it affecting you all that much.
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