I can't buy the rifle and ammo was not good enough theory at all.
After all Billy Dixon at the battle of Adobe Walls shot an Indian chief from the saddle of his horse at 1600 yards with a open sight Buffalo(excuse me... Bison) rifle.
Rifles and Ammo were not a big hindrance BUT the lack of a decent rangefinder portable enough to carry was.
The Rangefinder is the root cause of all the interest in LR hunting... period.

Let’s be honest, it just was that Indians time to go.

At 1600 yards, with iron sights....that shot was a miracle lob guided by the hand of God

Jeffbird I’m sure you know but some may not. Most (not all) of the targets posted with the group off from the POA is intentional to maintain a good clean spot to aim at. Hopefully hunters don’t leave it like that when they’re finished target shooting.

For the record Jeff I study every word you post in this section with a great deal of respect and a desire to learn.

Jeff's da bomb!

Hunting Accuracy.......
I’ve hunted with and guided hunters that can shoot 1/2” MOA all day at 100 yards.
Put a Trophy Stag (heart the size of a softball) in front of them at 60 yards and their $2000 rifle and 1/2 moa is thrown out the window.
Granted this is Texas and most shots are under 100 yards. I’ve shot numerous deer and other game at 300-400 yards (that’s my comfort zone max). That being said I don’t think the average hunter needs to take those shots.
Hang on hang on. I know you’re already typing your response... There are a bunch of THF membets here that shoot 1000 yds accurately (or farther) as do I. However, how many and let’s say by percentage can identify, range, and deliver an ethical shot under pressure at that range. The number is small I promise you. This is my personal opinion but I see to many hunters choosing to take shots based on the quality of the equipment being used and not the experience of the shooter. Taking an ethical shot on a trophy buck at 300+ yards and taking a shot a piece of steel will show you that the 1/2 MOA rifle being used has nothing to do with hunting accuracy.

Yep.

And this is one of the reasons why I have started participating in competitions that put the shooter in different positions with targets at different distances and under a time crunch. It's by no means the same adrenaline rush as hunting and seeing that sought after trophy but it's about as close to replicating it as I've found. I'll admit that I'm a blind hunter and build a very stable rest inside my blind when I'm shooting past 150, because I can.

I've never hunted outside of Texas and don't know if I ever will but I think the competitions will have prepared me to shoot at extended ranges from a position other than a high back office chair with arm rests and a perfectly located window.

And this is one of the reasons why I have started participating in competitions that put the shooter in different positions with targets at different distances and under a time crunch. It's by no means the same adrenaline rush as hunting and seeing that sought after trophy but it's about as close to replicating it as I've found. I'll admit that I'm a blind hunter and build a very stable rest inside my blind when I'm shooting past 150, because I can.

I've never hunted outside of Texas and don't know if I ever will but I think the competitions will have prepared me to shoot at extended ranges from a position other than a high back office chair with arm rests and a perfectly located window.

I'm with you. I too do this in my set ups, build in rests when possible. My quad pod is more of an open air shooting platform with bags for front, and cross braces for rear elbow. On night set ups, I make prone positions workable in daylight and go back to them at night. On other ground set ups, I do the same thing. Even on my ATV I know where I'll rest my gun. I do struggle with a rested position where there is no rest for rear elbow. I'll go back to hunters challenge if only to remind myself that unrested positions are last resort for me.

What is "good enough" is an age old discussion. My take is recognizie your limitations and don't push your capabilities on game. Those that appreciate marksmanship enough to develop their equipment and skill with it to a higher level are saddled with fewer limitations. I have used a dog to aid several hunters who did not have the skill to execute what they attempted. Their "good enough" was "not good enough" to be "good enough".

Yes, and that’s unfortunately been a sad part of hunting’s history for a long time.

In the real world of hunting IMO it is clear that the rage for long-range hunting has only exacerbated that problem - as marketing has become geared more towards the myth that proficiency at ranges most have no business attempting can be “bought”. IMO this has simply added another layer of opportunity for folks to get out over their skis and resulted in more problems, not fewer.

I have witnessed it many times and I hear it also from guys and gals who witness it constantly both on a professional and non-professional level.

My goal has always been and will always be to seek to close the distance as much as I can rather than see how far I can kill an animal. For me, that means less than 300 and never more than 400 yards. I have zero desire to extend that range, because my own personal view is if I can’t get closer than that I’ve not hunted the animal to my satisfaction in any event - and he has won the day. Killing the best animal in the field or on the mountain at 600 yards plus would do nothing for me. I take much more pride in killing an animal with my bow or closing the distance on an animal to “chip shot” rifle range than I ever would in killing one at long range. Others obviously have different views on the subject.

This is the main reason I take a little humbrage at the lectures on the supposed need for constant “practice” for one to be “ethical” or “competent” in the field. For many of us who stay within our known limitations, this is simply not necessary-as our competence within those limitations was attained long ago - akin to having learned to swim or ride a bike.

Not to say I haven’t missed before or won’t ever miss again, but thankfully those misses are few and far between, and lack of range time has little or nothing to do with them at this stage of the game.

From the way some of you talk, shooting a rifle in the field from odd and varied support is something new. I figured out the need for that maybe 60 years ago, as a kid with a 22 and a pocket full of ammo. I got pretty darn good shooting offhand, but would use anything available as a rifle rest to improve the accuracy.

Geez, this seems to come up a few times a year, the only difference is a different title to the thread.

Hunting accuracy is all about the loose but behind the trigger, not the rifle.

Here is the secret to all of this.............PRACTICE!!!!!

If someone has never shot from an improvised position don’t try it for the first time on an animal.
If their total time shooting their hunting rifle is from a bench at a local range, I hope they don’t try to be the hero and take at shot off their knees at a trophy buck that’s 100+ yards out. It wont turn out the way you think.
Sure, they might recover that buck but there is no excuse for a gut shot.

If you can get prone, build a stable position off of a tree, a handy fence post, your back pack, maybe the odd twig sticking up then go for it.... as long as you know what your limits are. You should have practiced all of this before your hunt.

I own, shoot and hunt with 1/4 MOA rifles, I know how accurate I am with each of them from just about any position I have to shot from because I practice....a lot.

I’m headed out for a back country archery elk hunt tommorrow and I already know my maximum range with a bow because i practice.....a lot. Same thing with rifle......practice.