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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017270 12/30/17 09:04 PM
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I recently learned that Europe had bison too and much of them were killed off as well. There is still a small herd in Romania or someplace like that. I went to a TXPWD seminar that talked about bison and the head ranger of the TX herd was there along with some other folks. Pretty interesting.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: Sneaky] #7017279 12/30/17 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
For the unpure lines, what were they crossed with?


Domestic cattle


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017286 12/30/17 09:23 PM
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Read American Buffalo by Steven Rinella. It addresses a lot of these questions and tells you where the research came from. Very informative. Dan Flores' American Serengeti is also very good. Flores was one of the first academics to suggest that native Americans slaughtered buffalo to buy rifles and other goods from white traders.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: SherpaPhil] #7017300 12/30/17 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: SherpaPhil
Read American Buffalo by Steven Rinella. It addresses a lot of these questions and tells you where the research came from. Very informative. Dan Flores' American Serengeti is also very good. Flores was one of the first academics to suggest that native Americans slaughtered buffalo to buy rifles and other goods from white traders.


Both should be required reading in jr high. Pretty much sums up American Buffalo


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017318 12/30/17 10:00 PM
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7017324 12/30/17 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: SherpaPhil
Read American Buffalo by Steven Rinella. It addresses a lot of these questions and tells you where the research came from. Very informative. Dan Flores' American Serengeti is also very good. Flores was one of the first academics to suggest that native Americans slaughtered buffalo to buy rifles and other goods from white traders.


Both should be required reading in jr high. Pretty much sums up American Buffalo


I'm gonna check it out


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017327 12/30/17 10:11 PM
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popcorn Very interesting topic!!!

I am not too informed on the history of the American Bison. But consider this: maybe 10 million buffalo, half of those killed by westward expansion and Indians, the other half by cattle-born diseases.

1 million is a LOT of people, let alone ton-sized bovines. If there were 60 million buffalo, I dunno if the Great Plains--from TX/OK/NM to Dakotas--could truly keep them all healthy. Carrying capacity of each community/environment of each herd would force them to move around and compete and compete and compete and obviously they're being shot by bullets and arrows and getting sick from each other as well as cattle.

Just my somewhat uneducated guess. cheers

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017336 12/30/17 10:23 PM
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The problem with history is it's just as biased as the person who writes it down, just as truthful and the same goes with those who pass it on.


Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017339 12/30/17 10:30 PM
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The buffalo did not exist measurable amounts east of the Mississippi or west of the Rio Grand in New Mexico, in fact they were scarce west of the Pecos in New Mexico. In Colorado, they existed mainly east of the Rockies, same in Montana and Wyoming. From Texas straight north into Canada was mainly their home range. But they did exist outside of this home range.

The inventory of buffalo back then at 60 million seems highly possible, the area they inhabited had no cities, no fences, and very few people. Right now, Texas has a cattle inventory of over 12 million, and we definitely don't have many over stocked pastures. Add in inventory possible in the area for OK, NM, KS, NE, WY, MT, SD and ND plus central Canada.


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: HWY_MAN] #7017341 12/30/17 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: HWY_MAN
The problem with history is it's just as biased as the person who writes it down, just as truthful and the same goes with those who pass it on.


So true up

Writers like to embellish to makes their stories grandeur for fame and fortune, generational story tellers are just that story tellers and we all know how facts and information gets distorted from one teller of the story to the next.


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017347 12/30/17 10:37 PM
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No doubt Indians killed their share of buffalo for trade.
But it is unlikely that whites killed them to "starve out" the Indians. At the time the buffalo where nearly wiped out, late 1800's, Indian problems for the most part no longer existed.
Also the late 1800s made for the taming of The Frontier. The West had been fairly well fenced off at this time and reduced the size of buffaloes turf. What was a free range from Mexico to Alaska no longer existed. Buffaloes had been fenced in.


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: Simple Searcher] #7017370 12/30/17 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Simple Searcher
No doubt Indians killed their share of buffalo for trade.
But it is unlikely that whites killed them to "starve out" the Indians. At the time the buffalo where nearly wiped out, late 1800's, Indian problems for the most part no longer existed.
Also the late 1800s made for the taming of The Frontier. The West had been fairly well fenced off at this time and reduced the size of buffaloes turf. What was a free range from Mexico to Alaska no longer existed. Buffaloes had been fenced in.


It’s been hypothesised that even with out European settlement, that the simple re-introduction of the horse by Spaniards would of caused the extinction as the natives barter market with each other grew.


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017380 12/30/17 11:09 PM
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One could say that the Spaniards, with the horses they brought, would constitute (their attempt) at "European settlement".


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017391 12/30/17 11:23 PM
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I often wounder what North America would be like now had Europeans not settled it.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017392 12/30/17 11:24 PM
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https://www.fws.gov/bisonrange/timeline.htm


Home TIME LINE of the AMERICAN BISON

Dates
Estimated Bison Population
Pressures on Bison
Legislation Concerning Bison
Recovery Efforts
1500's
An estimated 30 to 60 million bison living in North America.


1700's
to
1800's

As Euro-Americans settled the country, moving westward from the east coast, they brought changes to native habitat through plowing and farming. Introduced cattle diseases and grazing competition with feral horses also impacted bison prior to direct impact by Euro-Americans.


1802

Bison gone from Ohio, pushed out by pioneers and settlers.


1820

Native Americans tribes, forced off land in the east, bring horses and guns to the Great Plains and increased pressure on bison.


1830

Mass destruction of the once great herds of bison began.


1840's

West of the Rocky Mountains, bison (never in large numbers) disappeared. Native Americans market hunters concentrated on cow bison, because of their prime hides for trading.

1844

This may have been the peak year for the Hudson=s Bay Company as 75,000 bison robes were traded to posts in Canada.

1860's

Railroads built across the Great Plains during this period divided the bison into two main herds - the southern and the northern. Many bison were killed to feed the railway crews and Army posts. During this time, ABuffalo Bill@ Cody gains fame.
In 1864, the Idaho State Legislature passed the first law to protect the bison - after they were gone from the state.
In 1866, Charles Goodnight, at the request of his wife, captured a few free ranging bison calves and began a captive herd on his ranch in Texas. The bison were sold shortly after, unbeknownst of Mr. Goodnight.
1870

An estimated two million bison were killed this year on the southern plains. Germany had developed a process to tan bison hides into fine leather.
Homesteaders collected bones from carcasses left by hunters. Bison bones were used in refining sugar, and in making fertilizer and fine bone china. Bison bones brought from $2.50 to $15.00 a ton. Based on an average price of $8 per ton they brought 2.5 million dollars into Kansas alone between 1868 and 1881. Assuming that about 100 skeletons were required to make one ton of bones, this represented the remains of more than 31 million bison.


It became obvious in the 1870's that owning bison was profitable. More and more people were capturing free ranging bison to establish private herds.
1871

This year marked the beginning of the end of the southern herd. The greatest slaughter took place along the railroads. One firm in St. Louis traded 250,000 hides this year. Demand for bison skins escalated as a Pennsylvania tannery began commercially tanning bison hides. With this newly discovered tanning process, bison were now hunted year round.
Territorial delegate R.C. McCormick of Arizona introduced a bill that made it illegal for any person to kill a buffalo on public lands in the United States, except for food or preserving the robe. The bill indicated that the fine be $100 for each buffalo killed. Mysteriously, this document disappeared.
Wyoming passed a law prohibiting the waste of bison meat. Since such laws were not enforced, they did little to protect the bison.

1872

During this year and the next two, an average of 5,000 bison were killed each day, every day of the year, as ten thousand hunters poured onto the plains. One railroad shipped over a million pounds of bison bones. Bison hunting became a popular sport among the wealthy.
The Kansas legislature passed a law prohibiting the wasting of bison meat, but the Governor vetoed it.
Colorado passed a law prohibiting the wasting of bison meat; it was not enforced.
The legislation creating Yellowstone National Park provided Aagainst the wanton destruction of the fish and game found in said park@. Staffing and funding were not provided to enforce this law.

1873

On the southern plains, slaughter reached its peak. One railroad shipped nearly three million pounds of bones. Hides sold for $1.25 each, tongues brought 25 cents a piece - most of the bison was left to rot. A railway engineer said it was possible to walk A100 miles@ along the Santa Fe railroad right-of-way by stepping from one bison carcass to another.
Columbus Delano, Secretary of the Interior, under President Grant, wrote in his 1873 report, AI would not seriously regret the total disappearance of the buffalo from our western prairies, in the effect upon the Indians. I would regard it rather as a means of hastening their sense of dependence upon the products of the soil and their own labors.@
In 1872 or 1873 with the aid of his wife Sabine, Walking Coyote, a Pend d=Oreille Indian, acquired some bison calves, bringing them into the Flathead Valley with the intent of starting a bison herd.
In Canada, west of Winnipeg, James McKay acquired five bison and established a small herd.
1874

This year marked the seeming end of the great southern herd. Auctions in Fort Worth, Texas were moving 200,000 hides every day or two. One railroad shipped nearly 7 million pounds of buffalo bones.
Congress advanced their efforts to save the bison. Both the House and Senate passed a bill that protected female bison and did away with wanton destruction. However, President Grant refused to sign the bill.
Around this time, William and Charles Alloway of Manitoba, Canada, with the aid of a milk cow, captured three bison calves to start their own herd.
1875

Few bison remained in Texas when the state legislature moved to protect the bison. However, General Phil Sheridan appeared before the assembly and suggested that every hunter be given a medal Awith a dead buffalo on one side and a discouraged Indian on the other.@ He added that once the animals were exterminated, the Indians would be controlled and civilization could advance.

1876

The estimated three to four million bison of the southern plains were now dead. The Northern Pacific Railroad, anxious to advance, ignored tribal treaties and sent in a survey party. Native Americans killed some of the men, and General George Custer was sent to investigate, making history with the Battle at Little Big Horn.

1877

A few remaining free roaming bison were discovered in Texas and were killed.
A law was passed in Canada that forbade the use of pounds (corrals), wanton destruction, killing of buffalo under 2 years of age, and the killing of cows during a closed season.
Lt. Col. Samuel Bedson of Stoney Mountain, Manitoba (Canada) purchased bison from the Alloway herd, the McKay herd and from some Native Americans.
1878

Bison in Canada were disappearing rapidly.
Canada repealed the 1877 law.

1880

Slaughter of the northern herd had begun.
New Mexico passed a law to protect the bison; unfortunately the bison were already gone from this state.

1881

This year=s winter marked the largest slaughter of the northern herd. One county in Montana shipped 180,000 buffalo skins. Robes brought $2.50 to $4.00 each.

Around this time, the Glidden and the Dupree herds (of the Dakotas) were established.
1882

Over 10,000 bison were taken during one hunt of a few days length in Dakota Territory in September.
The fate of the northern herd had been determined. Hunters thought that the bison had moved north to Canada, but they hadn=t. They had simply been eliminated.

1883

By mid-year nearly all the bison in the United States were gone.
The Dakota Territorial Legislature enacted a law to protect bison; it was not enforced.
In Oklahoma, the McCoy brothers and J.W. Summers caught a pair of bison calves, 2 of very few left on the southern plains.
1884
There were around 325 wild bison left in the United States - including 25 in Yellowstone.

Congress gives the Army the task of enforcing laws in Yellowstone National Park in an effort to protect the final few wild bison from poachers.
Charles Goodnight re-established his herd.
Michel Pablo and Charles Allard of Montana purchased 13 bison from Walking Coyote for $2000 in gold.
1885

C.J. Jones purchased a few bison from Charles Goodnight, along with capturing 13 bison from southern Texas, starting his own private herd.
1886

The Smithsonian Institute sent an expedition out to obtain bison specimens for the National Museum. After a lengthy search, some were found near the LU Bar Ranch in Montana. Twenty-five were collected for mounting and scientific study. (The original mounted specimens were brought to the Fort Benton (MT) Museum of the Upper Missouri in the mid-1990's, close to where the original bison were taken.)

1887

The American Museum of Natural History (New York), wishing to obtain their own bison specimens for an exhibit, mounted an exhibition to Montana. They found no bison.
One of the last lots of bison robes sold in Texas for $10 per robe.

1888

Austin Corbin established a herd of bison on New Hampshire=s Blue Mountain Game Preserve.
1889
William Hornaday estimated total bison population to be just over 1000 animals - 85 free ranging, 200 in the federal herd (Yellowstone NP), 550 at Great Slave Lake (Canada) and 256 in zoos and private herds.
Last commercial shipments of hides anywhere in United States.

1896

The Pablo/Allard herd in the Flathead Valley totaled about 300. Allard died, and his widow sold her portion to Charles Conrad of Kalispell, MT.
1902
There were 700 bison in private herds. The Yellowstone herd was estimated at 23 animals.

1905
Government bison herds held about 100 animals (Yellowstone NP and the National Zoological Park in Washington, DC).

The American Bison Society founded by private citizens to protect and restore bison. Ernest Harold Baynes, founder; William T. Hornaday, president; Theodore Roosevelt, honorary president.
Hornaday (director of NY Zoological Park) gifted 12 of their bison to Wichita National Forest Preserve. This became the first gift of bison to establish/increase government herds.
1906 to 1912

Pablo sold his bison herd to Canada, after Congress turned down funding for purchase for the United States. After 7 years of rounding up, a total of 695 animals were shipped to Canada. Pablo received $170,000.
The National Bison Society donated 6 bison to the Fort Niobrara Game Preserve.
1908

National Bison Range established for A..a permanent ... Range for the herd of bison to be presented by the American Bison Society.@
1909

Thirty-four bison purchased from the Conrad herd (Kalispell, MT) by the American Bison Society, donated and release on National Bison Range.
1910
The American Bison Society Census estimated 2,108 bison in North American (1,076 in Canada and 1,032 in the U.S.). Bison in public herds in the U.S. totaled 151.

1913

Wind Cave National Park (SD) received 14 bison from the New York Zoological Society.
1919
Estimated population of North American bison at 12,521.

1924

The National Bison Range donates 218 bison from a herd total of 675 to other public herds. This is the first of many donations and sales of live bison.
1935

Because of the secure populations of bison in public herds, the American Bison Society votes itself out of existence.
1990's
An estimated 20,000-25,000 bison were in public herds in North America.
At least 250,000 bison in private herds by end of decade.

Private bison herds on the rise. Many bison raised for eventual slaughter - selling point of bison meat is it leanness and low levels of cholesterol. Many Native American Tribes reintroducing bison to their lands through the effort of the InterTribal Bison Cooperative and donations from federal herds.


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: gusick] #7017396 12/30/17 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: gusick
I often wounder what North America would be like now had Europeans not settled it.


Someone else would have.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: Sneaky] #7017402 12/30/17 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: gusick
I often wounder what North America would be like now had Europeans not settled it.


Someone else would have.


Bingo up


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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7017455 12/31/17 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Simple Searcher
No doubt Indians killed their share of buffalo for trade.
But it is unlikely that whites killed them to "starve out" the Indians. At the time the buffalo where nearly wiped out, late 1800's, Indian problems for the most part no longer existed.
Also the late 1800s made for the taming of The Frontier. The West had been fairly well fenced off at this time and reduced the size of buffaloes turf. What was a free range from Mexico to Alaska no longer existed. Buffaloes had been fenced in.


It’s been hypothesised that even with out European settlement, that the simple re-introduction of the horse by Spaniards would of caused the extinction as the natives barter market with each other grew.



The introduction of the horse by DeSoto and Coronado (probably not intentional) to the Plains Indians gave them a huge advantage in travel, hunting and battle, making them the most feared Indians in the US. Up until then they were hunting buffalo on foot, something to think about. Once the horse was established they would ride into the herds flinging arrows like crazy putting as many arrows into one as they could. When you consider the equipment they used I would go as far as saying they wounded more than they actually killed on the spot. Mogoosh a Lipan Apache who was in this area told stories of wounded buffalo wandering across the prairies only to be lost.

Last edited by HWY_MAN; 12/31/17 12:30 AM.

Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017495 12/31/17 12:38 AM
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I don’t know about that. I saw a film where the Sioux folded ‘em up on the spot with just a couple arrows. Not a one limped away. Some gringo even leveled one with an offhand shot from his lever gun, saving a young brave. There was quite a celebration, afterwards, with raw buffalo liver shared by all, as was their custom, apparently. The whole thing seemed pretty accurate, to me. You should check it out.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017506 12/31/17 12:49 AM
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Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017515 12/31/17 12:54 AM
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That’s the documentary I was talking about.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: Sneaky] #7017516 12/31/17 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
I don’t know about that. I saw a film where the Sioux folded ‘em up on the spot with just a couple arrows. Not a one limped away. Some gringo even leveled one with an offhand shot from his lever gun, saving a young brave. There was quite a celebration, afterwards, with raw buffalo liver shared by all, as was their custom, apparently. The whole thing seemed pretty accurate, to me. You should check it out.


The way those buffaloes went down makes me wonder if the arrow shafts were 10mm in diameter, thereby killing them quicker and deader. peep


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Instead of bows and arrows, I would have rigged up a catapult to fling boulders at the buffalo. Of course boulders may be in short supply in some places.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: Grizz] #7017539 12/31/17 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Grizz
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
I don’t know about that. I saw a film where the Sioux folded ‘em up on the spot with just a couple arrows. Not a one limped away. Some gringo even leveled one with an offhand shot from his lever gun, saving a young brave. There was quite a celebration, afterwards, with raw buffalo liver shared by all, as was their custom, apparently. The whole thing seemed pretty accurate, to me. You should check it out.


The way those buffaloes went down makes me wonder if the arrow shafts were 10mm in diameter, thereby killing them quicker and deader. peep


Oh, solid theory.

Re: Friday Discussion Topic-the Great American Bison [Re: txtrophy85] #7017595 12/31/17 01:52 AM
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My cousin found correspondance between my family's early settlers in Weiland Texas back to kin in Tennessee they said that there were deer and buffalo in abundance.around 1850's. Do you think this was so?


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