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Interesting Gunsmith Post
#7002646
12/19/17 06:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,434
jeffbird
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from another forum, thought this might be of interest. The discussion was about Weatherby's new advertising descriptions and wandered off as threads do. The highlights are in the original. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread...ns#Post12478715I would take a Howa action (Weatherby Vanguard) in preference to about any other push feed action with a possible exception of a Ruger American. (Jury is still out. The American is too new to know for sure, but so far I have had no complaints or issues with the Rugers)
As a gunsmith I get to see the bad ones and the "sick guns" and the ones that I fix the most are the 700 Remington actions.
The one that I have seen break 4 times, and the company will NOT do a thing to help is Tikka. 4 of them have come to my shop with the bolt body broken out behind the root of the bolt handle. (the rear of the dovetail) Tikka says "tough" and will do NOTHING to help At ALL! For that reason alone I will not recommend Tikka. Too bad, they are super smooth and super accurate, but they have NO and I do mean NO customer support at all.
I can't say what Howa's policy is because I have never seen one break. I have seen a few minor issues that I was able to fix with the extractors dragging when left to rust. Easy fix, and not the fault of the gun. I don't like the cheep feeling bottom metal and painted decal "HOWA" on the floor plate, but that just a preference. As far as function goes, I rank the Howa as either the #1 push feed action on the American market, or a tie for 1st place with the new Ruger.
I did have a Weatherby Mk5 come in for a restock last year with a broken trigger guard. The customer had a plastic stock and wanted one of my nice Bastogne stocks so I did the work for him. I had him call Weatherby about the broken TG and they sold him a new one at a very high price (about $140 is what he told me) That's a different action and a different importer than Legacy USA however. So I have no idea what Legacy would have done if it had been a Howa action. Might be worth a phone call just to ask. If anything was to make me lean to the Ruger over the Howa it would be customer support. I know that if anything breaks on a Ruger they replace it free. Legacy/Howa may do the same, but you'd need to call them and find out.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7002668
12/19/17 06:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,342
ChadTRG42
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The Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard (same action) is a good action. The main issue with gun smith's on them is that the action threading is metric (Rem 700 and Tikka) are American Standard threading. Plus, the Howa actions have a tapered thread pitch, meaning the threading gets tighter the more you screw the barrel into the action. And there has not been a lot of aftermarket items for the Howa long action rifles (there are some for the short actions). These are negative trates of the Howa's.
The Tikka's that I have seen damaged were from hot hand loads. Jon Trammel in Breckenridge had 2 Tikka rifles in his shop that were damaged. One was a 6mm something. He laughed (his famous Jon Trammell chuckle) when I asked him about the rifle, because he knew the guy who shot it and was running it really hot. And 6mm's show excessive pressure VERY quickly, and you can go from a warm load to an excessive pressure load very easily. So any rifle can have damage when you over do it.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7002679
12/19/17 06:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,874
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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#1, how do you break the back-end of the bolt unless you're doing something really stupid? #2, Tikkas aren't that numerous, yet this guy's seen FOUR that have the exact same odd problem? #3, it's 2017, where are the pics?
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7002734
12/19/17 06:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,269
J.G.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
#7002968
12/19/17 08:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,839
JCB
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#3, it's 2017, where are the pics?
^^^^ This And I am sure there is a email trail to go along with it when they contacted Tikka. Would like to see that as well as the pics.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003005
12/19/17 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 621
Texasteach
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The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it.
You did what?
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003103
12/19/17 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37,801
Buzzsaw
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SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003353
12/20/17 01:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,109
RiverRider
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If szihn says it happened, and in the forum where I believe this was picked up, then I am confident that it happened.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/T84Bps5.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003359
12/20/17 01:22 AM
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JCB
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I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003379
12/20/17 01:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,050
P_102
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Most likely heavy loads, that's why Tikka didn't support. The Howa (Weatherby Vanguard) actions are very smooth, much more so than Rem 700 (I have both), unfortunately the threading is a 'no-go' for some gunsmiths. I look forward to grabbing a Ruger American Varmint when I can. P_102
Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: JCB]
#7003463
12/20/17 02:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,269
J.G.
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I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it. Yup. Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003739
12/20/17 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,618
Texas Dan
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Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support.
"When the debate is lost, insults become the tool of the loser."
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7003787
12/20/17 12:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,591
aggiehunter03
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Beretta (Tikka) has horrible customer service. They’re known for it. But their stuff is top notch so I just buy it and hope I never need it again. Sent a Sako back once.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: J.G.]
#7003969
12/20/17 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,417
Judd
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I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it. Yup. Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup. Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action yes, I totally made that up
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel As much as I hate to admit it, I do like my truck
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7004141
12/20/17 04:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,410
WileyCoyote
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A Little History with roots that are still giving evidence of the past...
Tikka and SAKO were merged corporately in 1984 when the Finnish government divested it self of the Tikka & Finn Military machine gun mfg'ing plant ownership.
Beretta has ALWAYS been known for having Zero Customer Service...nothing new here. SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality investment cast lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta. Just Sayin' nuthin' new here about Beretta's Cust Svc. Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: Judd]
#7004151
12/20/17 04:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,269
J.G.
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I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it. Yup. Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup. Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action yes, I totally made that up That must be it. POS actions, they only hold up for 10,000 rounds!
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#7004161
12/20/17 04:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,269
J.G.
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SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta. Longest run-on sentence ever! 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/garvey.jpg) 800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7004232
12/20/17 04:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,410
WileyCoyote
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Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat...  It's called "stream of concienness" writing" made infamous by Jack Kerouack book of "Travel's with Charly" of hitchiking across the country in the early '50s' while TOTALLY STONED...and why I had to take Freshman English 3 times in college... Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#7004235
12/20/17 04:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,269
J.G.
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Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat...  Ron I know you can! 
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7004319
12/20/17 05:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,717
redchevy
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OMG this isn't going to go over well.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: J.G.]
#7004376
12/20/17 06:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,410
WileyCoyote
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...or conceniousness, depending on your level of sobriety on any given day... Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7005132
12/21/17 04:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 762
fast88
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Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support. There are many foreign companies that have excellent customer service e.g. Accuracy International, Zeiss and Swarovski . That can’t be an acceptable reason to have poor customer support in a country they sell products in.
Last edited by fast88; 12/21/17 04:34 AM.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7005273
12/21/17 12:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,878
wp75169
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Beretta... that pretty much covers it in my opinion. I tried a few years back to communicate with them about several rifles that tikka made but they would not import. Their response was less than stellar with form emails telling me where to shop based on my location to get the rifles they do import. I’m considering having a rifle brought in out of Canada because they actually have them there.
I have had issues with a ruger and a Springfield EMP. Both companies had awesome service, fixed my guns, paid for shipping, apologized, and sent them back with more than I sent them.
For anyone curious no I didn’t want beretta to import a gun just for me. I did however expect them to help guide me in the direction I needed to go. That’s what I consider customer service.
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: Texasteach]
#7005374
12/21/17 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,874
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it. I'd like to see WHERE it broke. Was it the same bolt that broke four times? Did these all belong to the same owner? The back of the bolt isn't a pressure point, it is certainly weird that it would break in that location. Aftermarket stock that the bolt was hitting?
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post
[Re: jeffbird]
#7005380
12/21/17 02:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,828
colt45-90
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hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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