Lets talk about the so called "custom turrets" and BDC reticles (BDC- ballistic drop compensating). In the last few days, I have taken multiple phone calls about this. Say you spend the money to get a quality rifle that shoots 1/2 moa or sub 1/2 moa. You spend the time and money to work up a great shooting load for it with the bullet you want and you know EXACTLY how fast the bullet is leaving the muzzle within 10 fps (20 extreme spread). Now, you want to shoot longer ranges, so an uninformed shooter orders a "custom turret" for their scope. When you order the turret, whoever makes it you have to tell them the specific conditions you will be shooting in- temp, pressure, humidity, altitude, etc. Now, the turret you have made is locked in to those conditions and those conditions ONLY!!!! If you shoot in any different environmental condition, then the turret will be incorrect. From about 300-400 yards and in, the turret will be close enough in most conditions to still get you on target for a kill shot. But after about 400 yards, the turret WILL cause a change in your trajectory. So you have a precise working system- rifle, precise ammo, shooter, and you now induce error with a custom turret. This becomes your weak link!!! I am not a fan of them at all, and actually they cause more problems than they solve.

For example, I had a customer who built a full custom rifle, had me work up a custom load for the rifle shooting 1.5" groups at 500 yards. Ammo was freakin' dead on with sub 20 fps extreme spread velocities. I told him that I don't recommend the custom turret, but he wanted it anyway. Fast forward to about 6 months later. I get a call from him all pissed off that he is upset that his group is 11" low at 500 yards with his confirmed dead on zero at 100 yards. So I said let's run the numbers. I asked him what the conditions are currently where he is shooting at. I ask him what the specs are on his so called "custom turret". He gives me all the numbers on his turret and I run the conditions from the local airport he's shooting near. I calculated a 10.2" inch low impact difference at 500 yards from his "custom turret" to the exact conditions he was shooting in. So, he has a 1.5" group at 500 yards that's 11 inches low with a custom turret that is supposed to get him on target. This is the error factor I am talking about! 11" is a miss on a deer sized animal at 500 yards. There are shooters who fling lead, and then there are precision shooters. If you are trying to be a precision shooter, then you have to use the proper tools needed to get on target.

So I ask EVERY SINGLE SHOOTER- Why on Earth would you want a "custom turret" with a high end rifle and high end ammo only to induce error into your shooting with your scope? The correct answer is to learn MOA or MILS, and calculate your EXACT environmental conditions you are currently shooting in and dial in MOA or MILS to the exact come up you need. If you are going to dial your turrets on your scope anyway, why would you not want to do it correctly? It truly blows my mind when I see shooters say they want to shoot long range and then say they want a "custom turret" for their scope. Scope companies have brain washed hunters thinking that a custom turret is what you need to shoot long range. Yes, sometimes they do work, but often times it causes a lot more trouble. And, with a custom turret set up to that rifle and ammo only, you do not learn any skills that can carry over to your other rifles. It teaches you only the setting to that rifle and that ammo. If you learn moa or mils, that skill set will carry over to ALL your rifles and scopes to get those rifles on target easier. Anyway, that's my take on the so called "custom turrets!!!"

You're right, Chad. Unfortunately, most "hunters" won't take the time to learn moa and mils. They'd rather just buy a scope with a BDC reticle or a "custom turret". Then tape a piece of paper to their gun with yardages or adjustments for yardage, in the case of the turret.

This will work well for most hunters in most situations inside 300 yards.

Although the skill sets to which you refer are much better than BDC or turrets, not everyone wants to shoot game at long range or compete in shoots where moa or mil is imperative.

Thanks for the education on this.

Yes. But most shooters who want the custom turrets want to shoot long range. In doing so, it induces a lot of error into their trajectory. It is not as simple as the scope mfg's make it out to be once you get further out.

Just gonna get me one of them Huskemaw jobbies, long range hunting will be a piece of cake.

Hence, exactly why I posted this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But the TV shows make it look really easy!!!

I tried to have this discussion with a friend who's relatively new to all of this stuff. He went ahead and bought a Leupold with the CDS turrets, but he hasn't sent them in yet to be set up. Does anyone know if Leupold will set up the dial with real world data? In other words, if I take my targets and bench to the deer lease and have him zero at 100, then shoot at 200, 250, 300, 350, etc and measure the actual adjustments, will the factory set up the dial with that data? I know it won't be exact due to the many environmental variables, but I think it would be somewhat better than Leupold's method of just sending them the bullet weight, BC, MV, etc and having them run it through some calculator.

Yes luppy will mark what ever input you give them. Custom turrets have there place, just don't expect it to work in higher elevation or real precise past 400.

As it sits the CDS turret is just a MOA turret....counting clicks

I see your point and agree with it.

A corollary to your point is: if environmental conditions (elevation, ambient temperature, humidity, barometric pressure) can make an 11" difference in POI at 500 yards, not many people have any business taking a shot at an animal at long range. (Not even talking about wind.)

How do you get an error with any desk calculator?

Great real world explanation!

If your were to order a turret I would zero it somewhere in the middle of your intended range, say 250 yards,and spread the error over both sides of the chart. Might not be exactly dead on at 100, but would likely have less error on the long side.

Yes, but shooters correct for their exact conditions all the time. When I used to compete, when we shot our cold bore shot at 1000 yards (first round out of the rifle) first thing in the morning, I had a certain come up to dial, say 24.5 moa come up. In the afternoon when temps heated up and the barometric pressure had risen, your early morning 1000 yard come up was not the same now. You may only need 23 or 23.5 moa for a come up. It makes a big difference, but it is easily accountable when you run the exact conditions you are shooting in to get on target. Sure, hunters may not be shooting game at 1000 yards, but the principle is the same. You can not just dial to a setting on your turret, and expect a dead on shot.

you can also just get 3 turrets made, 1000, 3000 and 5000 DA - that will cover most scenarios for those that just really want it. I hunt with a few guys that do that and they swap turrets out in minutes and are very successful with them.

knife, cat, skin-it - 100 ways. Me? I like mils, mils and mils.

Exactly why I have a self imposed limit of 500 yards in any hunting situation. Just not worth risking an injured animal because of an oversight on my part.

This all being true, it's amazing how many rely on BDC or something similar for their LR shooting. They're marketed as the "be-all-end-all eezy peezy" way to shoot at distance. Once again proving marketing trumps reality.

Most SFP BDC reticles don't have the hashes to get you over 400..so wouldnt say the are being used for long range.

Yep. They don't show all the misses and wounded animals that crawl off to die.

So, would it be better to just NOT send in a CDS turret and just mark your own zero? Then make whatever adjustments to zero or your 500, 600 etc mark based upon the variables?

The Swaro BT scope I just bought will let you mark 3 settings however you like. Mine will be at 200,300, and 400.

Well that went South


Someone Googled Long Range Verbage

I can't see past 500 anymore

The whole point of the thread is that a bunch of Long Rangers don't have a clue. It's a valid point.

That's the turret not the reticle. Try to take that scope LR past 700 you will max elevation adjustment out most likely.

My advice once you set it adjust it....via shooting it and mapping it out at those specific ranges. A) get practice b) it's not a guess at that point. Your factory ammo specs will be off.