I see what you are saying. Our neighborhood is broken up into 10 acre tracts and some properties have mobile home and some are just land. None of the tracts have been cleared for livestock so I feel we still provide good cover for the wildlife. The funny thing to me when I first looked at the land and talked to my neighbor was that we have an HOA, he was the person that started it and was the president up until last year. He said the only things they really have it for is to ensure none of the tracts turn into hunting camps (meaning a bunch of hunters on one tract so we don't end up with a guy with 9 set ups like you have)obviously we can use it solely for hunting they just don't want it to get out of hand and guns shooting everywhere, and to collect a little money to help pay to grade the road when needed.

I am going to bring up a deer management idea at the next HOA meeting and see what everyone thinks. Back home in Wisconsin we had land we hunted on that was owned by a farmer, when he sold it, he broke it out into 10-100 acres tracts and everyone of us that purchased it immediately sat down and came up with a management program between ourselves which included, with the exception of someone's first buck you could not shoot a basket rack, had to be outside the ears. It is a lot like the AR down here, and man did it help produce some quality deer now on our land.

Just my .. We were one of the later counties to adopt ARs and I used to hope and pray they would never adopt that rule. I've been hunting at our ranch my whole life and by the time we finally did adopt ARs, we had only killed 2 bucks that would be considered 'legal'. I was convinced they just didn't get big on our ranch. Funny thing is every year since we adopted ARs, the bucks have gotten bigger consistently, without fail. This has been the best year so far, we have 7 different bucks 4.5 and older regularly showing up on camera. First time we've been able to pick and choose which bucks we want to take. I'm a firm supporter of ARs. Sure, they're not perfect, but how can you make a law like that perfect? I think they got it as close as possible!

I just see this issue only getting more complex due to more subdivided and fractured properties with a rapidly increasing population in our state and more large land owners selling out, dying off, etc. I have personally witnessed people on their 10ac. ranchettes hunt the hell out of it--Ex. Every family member and extended family member harvesting a buck on a 10 acre place. And I can personally speak from experience about specific counties in Central Texas where 10-15 years ago you would rarely see deer.

I enjoy seeing mature deer, regardless if I can shoot them or not. It's just good to see them and know they exist in my parts.

A lot of people claim to be meat hunters and hate AR's, but what I find contradicting is that a lot of these same people were the first to blast away a 2.5y.o. skin and bones buck. If I am meat hunting, I would want something bigger and mature anyways. Just makes me scratch my head.

I think a lot of it comes from gathering the knowledge on proper management too and the "neighbor theory" that I learned here. I posted a pic of a buck that was probably only two years old and asked if people would shoot because if I didn't he would probably get harvested anyway. I was responded with if I shoot a buck because I am worried about my neighbor shooting the buck then I am that neighbor. I never thought of it like that but I liked the idea. I am not looking for him this year now in hopes he will survive and produce some offspring with his genes.

It's not just "meat hunters", it's "I've gotta kill a buck NOW" hunters. Second Saturday of rifle season, 8 days in, we had a hunter come in with a barely legal, young buck...his words "I haven't seen anything better, so I shot him. If I didnt, I'll probably not kill anything this year" what tha?!? It's your THIRD DAY of hunting!!! He spent more time mowing the pipeline 2 weeks into bow season, than he did sitting in his stand. A guy hunting 800 yards down the pipeline kept seeing deer cross right by this fellows stand, and this 2.5 year old deer was all he saw?!?

I'm roughly 1,000 away from this guy in the creek bottom, and have 5-6 mature bucks on camera. Now granted, they may not feed slowly across the pipeline...but during the rut, I would be willing to bet they cross it while chasing. But he decided on his 5th sit, that he wasn't gonna see anything better than the young buck

Oh well...more mature deer for the rest of us to choose from

And how many Deer in a AR County after killed and do not measure up are left for the buzzards?

If it still has milk on its lips dont shoot it.

And one less up comer for yall to. Ive been on places like that and cant stand it.

Just my personal opinion. I agree with another poster that mentioned an exemption for young hunters. Yes, some people would abuse the system, but there will always be a certain percentage of people who are going to cheat.

4 years ago I retired from the military and moved back home. The first season that came around I took my son (8 at the time) hunting. We went out before season and bought him a single shot Rossi in .243. A couple of Saturday mornings were spent at the range practicing and he got pretty good. Our first trip to the stand we didn't see anything. Our second trip out an 8 pt walked out 50 yards from us broadside. The buck looked away and he was probably 12". Just inside the ears. I told my son he had to let him go. 4 years later and he still refuses to go hunting with me again. Now at 12 he's too into video games and computers to want to get up early and go. I still believe that if he had got that first buck it would have instilled the love for hunting we all have.

I can see where that is a problem. Hate to hear it

I've told my kids that it's doe first, then either a true spike (not a yearling) or a legal buck. But they have to shoot a doe first. Imagine my surprise when they all said "we want to shoot a hog first" no problem...we have PLENTY of those bastages to take out, so fire away so that's what the focus is this year. And for the next 11 months I figure by next season, they'll be confident in their skills, and I will probably open it up the them killing whatever they desire. But they love going to the lease, no matter what.

Two hunts and he was done? I don't buy that not shooting that deer did that. It's called hunting, not killing. I hunted with my dad for two years when I was 8-9, probably 20-30 sits back when it was something else to even see one deer on a hunt. He never killed a deer while I was with him. The third year, my first hunting by myself, I got a yearling (1.5 yr old) doe on my third sit, and got a mature doe in late December. I didn't get a buck until my second year and it was the day after Christmas. In the last 35+ years I bet I haven't missed opening day but about 4-5 times. I love to hunt and be in the woods but maybe it's not for everybody, especially the instant gratification age.

And I guarantee that there would be an inordinate number of 3 year old hunters out there if they allowed kids to shoot whatever they wanted. Have you seen the AT&T commercial where the guy is buying his infant a cell phone because 'he uses so much data'? People suck.

Goes a bit deeper than that lol

So let's say a hunter who's been hunting all season has not seen
a deer to shoot, (it happens) and winds up shooting the first legal deer he or she sees
simply to honest to God get venison in the freezer, even prior to ARs.
Could that person not be considered a meat hunter?
There are hunters out there who in their heart and souls,
consider themselves meat hunters. So who is anyone else to try telling them any different??
Why is it a deer hunter can't be considered a meat but say a rabbit, squirrel or bird hunter can.
Could it be simply because antlers are held in such high regard?



P.S.- I'm headed to the lease tomorrow for a few days to hopefully shoot a legal deer to get some venison.
Good luck and be safe to anyone else headed out to hunt no matter what kind of hunter you are!

Is it possible to be both?

You can be just a trophy hunter,
or a trophy and meat hunter but apparently
from what I gather on here, there's no such thing as just a meat hunter.

Yea, ain't that the way it usually goes with these? Anyway, its been awhile, good luck with your hunt...

Hell no, there's nothing wrong with that. If I had a freezer that was barren of venison, I'd do the same damn thing but for a man to pay $XXXX for a lease spot, and sit for literally a handful of hours in 2.5 days, and decide "this is all I'm gonna see this year" and shoot a barely legal deer...it's a little bit of a stretch. Especially since he shot a NICE 11 pt last year on the 4th weekend. Maybe he just didn't feel like sitting as many sits this year, I don't know.

And make no mistake, I'm not calling you or anyone else out for any deer you decide to kill. If it's legal, you have every right to shoot it, and I'll congratulate you as soon as I know you have been successful. Hell, I walked up to him and shook his hand and congratulated him as he was gutting his deer. But good grief, I just wish he had stayed awake and given it more time before deciding "this is all I'll see"

But he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do...it's none of my business. I was simply speaking my thoughts