From what I have seen, all you are doing is applying slight pressure to the dog's ear and making them slightly uncomfortable... once the dog fetches the object, the discomfort is immediately removed. Then it is a matter of repeating the process enough times so that the dog understands the faster he holds the object, the quicker the discomfort is removed. The longer he holds the object, the less the discomfort is applied.

Seems almost identical to using a collar to force to place or pile by starting with continuous and advancing to nicks. The faster they force to place or to pile, the less pressure is applied by collar.

It really isn't that bad for the dog if you do it correctly and have patience. That's how I look at it anyways, but I can understand someone's concern with what could go wrong if done incorrectly.

Its a difficult process for amatures to do it properly. It requires reading the dog correctly and not getting played. I have helped a pro in the past, reforced one of my own dogs, and currently forcing two 6mo old pups of mine. I have some guidance, its not a fun process, but it is something i want to learn in order to keep moving forward in my own learning process.

Retrievers are born to retrieve but FF teaches the dog how to turn off pressure and to deal with it by compliance.

I collar conditioned Buck once he had sit, heel, and come by voice pretty much down. I then integrated the collar and whistle at the same time reinforcing those same OB commands. Once he had those we started working on forcing to place with the collar (that's what we have been working on the last week or so). The collar really helps them know that when you give a command to obey it immediately, sometimes they will try and test you by being really lax about it if they aren't collar conditioned. Once collar conditioned, they basically try and obey the command to beat the nick.

Not trying to be a smart A$$ here so please don't take it that way.

When you say sit the dog sits. Not just getting their butt on the ground but staying there until you release or give another command, even with distractions present. This also means no noise, calmly accepting praise, being able to tug on the leash and the dog not move, and even not wiggling around to be collared.

Here- comes immediately despite the distractions on verbal and whistle and front finishes on and off lead.

Heel- walks at heel without lagging or forging. Can pivot on the about turn and stay in position. Can back up and stay in position. Can come to heel from any position in the environment and sit sqaurely in relation to the handler.

This would be a minimum before moving on. I apologize if I'm mistaken but it sounds like you are on a budget and trying to send your dog for the minimum amount of time. This is fine but obedience must be solid before moving on and is a lifelong standard. I hate timelines but I will give one here. Normally this would be about an 8 week process of every day training. If you are not using the collar plan on doubling or even tripling the time that it will take you to get to the standard, especially if you can't train every day.

That is what I was looking for. And like most working people I do have a budget but I had figured 2 to 4 months. She is pretty solid on much of it. Now other dogs are a BIG distraction for her. She wants to play too much. But I've started working with a buddy and his pup so I hope to get a better grip on that in the next few weeks. I hope to get set up to send her in February.

And if I had someone who knew how to properly collar condition and could teach me to apply it properly I would get that done before then but I'm the educated on in dog training of my hunting friends and it's the blind leading the blind here.

Sit is the most important command before force fetch. The dog must know sit. Otherwise you will have a really long road to hoe. Heel and here can be a little sloppy beforehand, but sit is a must. When you force a dog you need to be able to concentrate on that one thing, as should the dog. Problems occur when things get complicated, such as commanding fetch then sit then having to put pressure on sit as well. It's a process best learned from one who knows what is going on.

Good luck
Robby

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