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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5986373
10/21/15 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,273
boonee
Veteran Tracker
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6.5x284, and take FiremanJG's class... Then go burn some powder.
Avenger Firearms 214-577-5818 avengerfirearms@gmail.com
Lifetime NRA member
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5987462
10/21/15 05:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,960
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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6.5, 7-08, or 308 would get my vote. My cheap Savage 308 shoots .5 MOA @ 100 yards and I can ring the steel plates at 300 yards all day long at the local range. All done with factory ammo, a $250 SWFA demo scope, and $30 SWFA rings. I did put the tactical bolt handle on it though, so maybe that's pushing it to shoot better. 
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5994323
10/26/15 02:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19,325
ChadTRG42
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CM,
Yes, the 7 STW is a huge round that's fast and flat, and hits hard. BUT, because it's so long of a round, and with the heavy, long bullets, you will run into mag length issues. Plus, the STW kicks like a mule. It would be one of the LAST rounds I would choose to learn to shoot long range with. The 26 Nosler, same thing. They are a fairly large over bore round, and will heat up a barrel very fast. You will not be able to shoot it consistently for more than 3-4 shots at a time, and then let the barrel cool. Like stated, a 6.5 CM or 6.5x47 Lapua would be great choices. You can have long shooting sessions without the barrel heating up too bad.
Honestly, I highly recommend learning on a 308 Win. There is nothing wrong with one, and I shoot one A LOT! It will teach you elevation and how to dope the wind. I love my 308's. And I wouldn't hesitate hunting with one out to however far I could get on target.
Most new shooters want the fastest and flattest round possible at first. Then they shoot it, and realize it's not the best option. Get something that you will shoot enough to get proficient with, and won't break the bank on ammo cost.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5994847
10/26/15 03:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,960
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: J.G.]
#5996506
10/27/15 02:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,821
Deerhunter61
THF Trophy Hunter
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If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. I completely agree with Jason about the 6.5 Creedmoor! As for the glass I would pick the bushnell or the SS over the Viper. The glass on the viper is pretty poor compared to the other two in my opinion and the mechanics are just as good in the other two as the Vipers.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: J.G.]
#5998017
10/28/15 03:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
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If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. Why go metric? I love MOA it's what I was trained to use. I've made some shots beyond 1000 yards and do it regularly utilizing MOA. I'm not saying milliradians are useless because I never used that eng. unit on a turret. Another reason I use MOA is America utilizes the imperial system.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5998611
10/28/15 04:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
Tracker
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There is nothing metric about milliradians.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#5998655
10/28/15 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,343
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
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Mils make a US standard thinking MOA guy think like metric....there are 10-.1 in a mil but quarters in a MOA. Technically they are right but the way Mils work is more similar to metric that US standard.
I have both and you do have to think a little differently but I have the opinion when in Rome you do as the Romans do and for any sort of tactical match everyone will talk mils but at a benchrest match everyone will talk MOA. There are advantages for Mils and they are mainly around not having to crank on the turret as much because the measurement is greater between clicks. The wind values are a little easier to remember too.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel As much as I hate to admit it, I do like my truck
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: spg]
#5998753
10/28/15 06:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682
cmorsch
Pro Tracker
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If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. If you are new to it, don't start with a heavy recoiling cartridge like the 7 STW, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you want it to do, and be easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
Skip that scope. Vortex Viper PST, Bushnell Elite, SS 5-20 are on the mid grade price range that will get the job done for many years to come. And for God's sake get Mil instead of MOA.
A 162 gr out of a 7 STW is making it a gelding. Focus more on BC and less on MV. 140 gr A-maxes or Berger VLDs will be the ticket in a 6.5 Creedmoor. And yes they will do a fine job hunting anything to 400 yards as well as shooting targets well beyond 1000 yards. Why go metric? I love MOA it's what I was trained to use. I've made some shots beyond 1000 yards and do it regularly utilizing MOA. I'm not saying milliradians are useless because I never used that eng. unit on a turret. Another reason I use MOA is America utilizes the imperial system. There is nothing metric or imperial about a mrad or moa scope. Both are angular measurements just a different types, and 1 MOA is not exactly 1 inch at 100 yards its 1.047 inches at 100 yards, most people just dont factor in the .047 and ignore it, which can become a issue at extended ranges.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: cmorsch]
#5998888
10/28/15 07:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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SPG sent me a very polite PM last night asking why I dislike MOA so much. Here is how I answer that.
The only thing metric is that it is divided into tenths. It is not dependant on meters.
MOA works fine for elevation. Windage is where Mil works better. Here's the 5 mph 3 or 9 o'clock wind hold for my 6.5 Creedmoor.
200 yards .1 300----------.2 400----------.3 500----------.4 600---------.5 700---------.6 800---------.7 900---------.8 1000------.9
Now if I estimate a 7-8 mph wind all I do is add 50% to those numbers. If I estimate a 10 mph wind I double those numbers, and so on.
5 mph wind on the same rifle, and load in MOA looks like this.
200 yards 1/4 300----------1/2 400-----------1 500-----------1 1/4 600-----------1 1/2 700-----------1 3/4 800-----------2 1/4 900-----------2 1/2 1000---------2 3/4
Now add 50% to those values, or double those values, or double plus 50% for a 12 mph wind. Which is easier?
I am more than comfortable with fractions, I use them every day and can mutiply, divide, add and asubtract them. 20 years of being a steel fabricator has made me good at it. But when we're talking shooting and a wind hold has to be made quickly for any distance, Mils are much easier
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000482
10/29/15 06:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,136
Western
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You guys say "ditch the scope" The burris 3, Why? I have been hard pressed to find a negative review? Many good reviews from LRS in hunting situations. Is it just a purist thing, you had one and 1st hand experience, cost vs performance, or something else?
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000492
10/29/15 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,644
Brother in-law
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So y'all always say dial elevation but hold for wind, why would the hate for moa be because you have to dial for wind then?
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Brother in-law]
#6000521
10/29/15 06:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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Look at the numbers. Which one is easier to remember? I can make a drill similar to hunting right on the range. Give you a distance, and give you seconds to make the shot. Would you rather have to look at a chart first or KNOW your wind hold based on distance. Pass fail would be making the shot in less than 10 seconds. It's more likely to get it done with Mils.
Dialing wind is usually another time killer. You make a wind judgement, dial in the correction, and then the wind gusts, lulls, or completely changes direction (head or tail).. You will either be changing what you dialed, or holding more, or holding less. Might as well just make a hold in the first place. Gravity is constant, wind is not. Dialing wind has nothing to do with Mil or MOA.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000537
10/29/15 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,413
OkieDokie
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I think the reason JG is talking about is the math you have to do in your head.
Maybe Today. raptureready.com
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000550
10/29/15 07:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 447
Strongbad
Bird Dog
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Shooting discipline has a lot to do with it. Jason is a mil/mil zealot because he's a tactical shooter. In tactical shooting sports like the PRS, mil/mil reigns. In other areas, not so much. In sports like F-Class where you've got a spotter/coach you don't see the busy reticles and folks doing as much hold-over, MOA is more common.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Strongbad]
#6000557
10/29/15 07:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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Shooting discipline has a lot to do with it. Jason is a mil/mil zealot because he's a tactical shooter. In tactical shooting sports like the PRS, mil/mil reigns. In other areas, not so much. In sports like F-Class where you've got a spotter/coach you don't see the busy reticles and folks doing as much hold-over, MOA is more common. Correct. Which one benefits the solo hunter more?
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: OkieDokie]
#6000563
10/29/15 07:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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I think the reason JG is talking about is the math you have to do in your head. Correct. As well as remembering your wind hold values. Those numbers are based on a 5 mph 3 or 9 o'clock wind. You build from that.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Western]
#6000639
10/29/15 08:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,136
Western
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You guys say "ditch the scope" The burris 3, Why? I have been hard pressed to find a negative review? Many good reviews from LRS in hunting situations. Is it just a purist thing, you had one and 1st hand experience, cost vs performance, or something else?
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: J.G.]
#6000651
10/29/15 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,343
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
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Shooting discipline has a lot to do with it. Jason is a mil/mil zealot because he's a tactical shooter. In tactical shooting sports like the PRS, mil/mil reigns. In other areas, not so much. In sports like F-Class where you've got a spotter/coach you don't see the busy reticles and folks doing as much hold-over, MOA is more common. Correct. Which one benefits the solo hunter more? I say both because either way you are spending time behind your rifle getting much more proficient with it 
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel As much as I hate to admit it, I do like my truck
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Western]
#6000659
10/29/15 08:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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Reticle could be better. It looks Mil based though. Designed for pure holds given that it has capped knobs. Eventually you will run out of reticle. And when you are at the bottom of the reticle you are also on the edge of the glass. You typically lose clarity and you defintately lose field of view. The knobs are 1/8 MOA so they don't even track in the Mils the reticle is in. As is the case with many mulit-tools it isn't great at any one job.
The price of the Burris could be better spent on a seperate range finder and a more user friendly scope. Only my opinion, of course.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000670
10/29/15 08:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,136
Western
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Thanks Jason, honest answer. That scope is expensive, but does have both and they are tied together, so definitely a one use tool.
Was just curious as many of the LRS that originally doubted it, have since seemed to endorse it (for hunting). I don't think it could hold a candle to a good traditional on a target shoot, don't believe it is that refined, but just my lay opinion.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6000730
10/29/15 09:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,817
wp75169
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Western I agree with Jason. At that price point you are giving up glass quality for technology. Which may cost you on a late/early shot at the animal you've been waiting on. For the same price you can get much better glass with low light performance and clarity. Adding a cheap range finder and practice will put you ahead for the long haul.
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6001330
10/30/15 05:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,136
Western
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Thanks, I already have a great RF and pretty fair scopes, just find the Burris intriguing. at near $1500, I have seen a few NF with pretty good glass.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: Chunky Monkey]
#6006930
11/02/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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how would a 243 ai with 1-7 twist shooting 115 gr compare to a creedmor
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Re: Let's talk long range shooting...
[Re: vanguard]
#6007056
11/02/15 11:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,112
J.G.
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Dang fine combo. Not as much energy delivery way out, though. If that even matters to you.
Run them in jbmballistics.com and compare.
6.5mm 140 gr, G-1 .585 (A-max), at 2800 fps MV. Course that BC could be bumped up going to the 140 Berger Hybrid.
Run those numbers up against the 6mm with your BC, MV, and bullet weight.
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