I did not state any preference concerning push-feed versus controlled-round feed. If you'll take a look, you'll see that I was discussing the relative expense of manufacturing the two, which used to be more widely separated than it is now.

My 'preference' there is a straw-man of your own manufacture. - So that you could have something to knock down. I'll take that as an admission that you do not feel that you can argue with what was actually said, but you really wanted to argue so you made something up.



A chassis system is one thing... Ten bucks worth of injection-molded plastic is another. Of course a hand-machined aluminum chassis system out of of small shop is going to cost more (and be of higher quality) than a mass-produced injection molding. Ruger owners will come to understand and appreciate that distinction in years to come.

Some are happy with the cheaper alternative, and I would be too if it were as much cheaper for the buyer as it is for the manufacturer.

There is a definite advantage to a controlled round system bolt gun when hunting dangerous game. For the other 99% of hunting that gets done though, it's not really much of an issue. My .223 bolt gun is a push-feed design for example, and I have never seen why it would need to be otherwise. The Howa is about as good as push-feeds get, with its Sako-style extractor and flat-bottomed action with an integral recoil lug. The old push-feed Winchester model 70 design was also a quality action, I had one in .338 WM that performed very well.

Note that modern controlled feed actions have an angle cut on the front of the claw extractor that allows you to "drop them on top of an empty mag and keep shooting", and it has been that way for decades, now. - Though one would wonder if the game animal would really be in any danger from that if you had already expended the magazine without managing a hit. - In practical terms, the modern "push-feed" modification on claw extractors is strictly a convenience for range or target shooting.

So, the push-feed's outstanding advantage over a controlled-round action is what? - The smaller and more delicate extractor?

I'll vote for "cheaper and easier to manufacture, thus pumping up the mark-up" on that question.

My feeling is that cheaper to manufacture firearms should also be cheaper to purchase.

Silly me!

In all fairness, most manufacturing companies can't stay in business with less than 60% margins, and that to wholesalers who then add additional markup. It seem exorbitant when spelled out in black and white, but that's what it actually takes to keep the doors open, honor warranties, pay employees, conform to government regulation, etc. Whether you approve or disapprove, it is the way of the world. You don't think Holland and Holland sells their rifles for a 10% markup, do you?

If you think I have an problem with businesses making money, you have not been reading what I have said.

- But let's take a look at a hypothetical case where manufacturer A makes a rifle that takes 500 bucks to manufacture, and manufacturer B makes one that costs them 350 bucks to turn out. Both wholesale at 750, and cost 1,000 bucks at the local gun store...

Which one would you prefer?

I would prefer the best product. Manufacturing cost is not necessarily the best indicator of end user value, although I'll grant you that it is usually very indicative for mature product categories. I understand that you believe the new rifle is not a good value and that it is simply a vehicle for Ruger to hold high margins. It may well be the case, but the market will make that decision quickly enough. If Ruger is holding exceptional margins and there's significant demand, then other manufacturers will want to get in on the party, which will either drive price down or quality up, or both.

The great thing about America is that we're allowed to vote with our wallets.

BINGO!

And Charles you again ignored the fact that this rifle is built to compete. When you talked about top loading while shooting an animal. That is not the point I was making and you should know that. On medium to large game, if you have emptied a magazine there is probably no point in top loading another round. But when you get into a rifle match with a stage that requires six rounds and you don't want to use your ten round mag then it is beneficial to have the ability to top load.

The widget is worth what people pay for it.

People always forget inflation when talking about the good old days. A $100 in 1975 is the same as $442.28 in todays dollars.

Fireman,

You can top load a control feed. All but 2 of my bolts are controlled feed and I often single feed them from the top when shooting at the range. I've never had an issue.

Well forgive me for the mistake. The ones I have been around would not allow top loading.

You are forgiven. Someday, I need to come down and take your long range class. I'd love to stretch things out and I have a buddy that would love it as well. I've been shooting at 100 yards for too long.

Yall get a group discount.

It's lots of fun, and shooting out to 800 sure makes 400 seem like no big deal.

Meh, if I want a tactical rifle in 6.5 CM I'm getting an AR-10. To me, this rifle is stuck between a benchrest and tactical weapon. Other rifles do each of those better. I'm of the opinion with today's semi-auto advancements, bolt actions are only good for tactical purposes if they fire a round that can't be fed through an AR.

Go watch or enter into a P.R.S. match and observe how many gas guns you see. Out of 100 shooters you will see 5 or less. They just can't shoot as tight as a bolt gun. Yes they are close, but in some arenas close is enough is not good enough.

And how many gas guns will you see at a bench rest mach? Zero

The bolt action rifle will never go away, and it is also drastically improving.

I understand that, which is why I opined that it's stuck between the two types. It's not going to be as accurate as a bench rifle, nor be capable of the volume of fire as a semi. For a tactical situation I'd much rather have a faster rate of fire than .1 better moa. The M110 seems to be doing a fine job.

You're arguing something I'm not. It's in the same category as the Ruger Scout IMO. Not really anything innovative.

6.5 creedmoor semi autos are finicky. The ar10 wasn't designed around shooting slow powders. They can be made to work, but you will probably loose a few hundred fps compared to a bolt action.

And again, different strokes for different folks. You'd rather have a faster rate of fire, and that is your choice, Murica

It is not innovative, guys have been putting togther bolt actions with a chassis system and detachable mags for many years. But Ruger is putting together the rifle system for a far more affordable price and it is a one stop shop as compared to waiting on the brown truck to deliver one part at a time from a variety of vendors. Then waiting on a smith to get the machine work done so that the parts become a complete rifle.

Dang Charles, that looks like fun. Is that a UTG forearm on the middle rifle? They are not the "sexy" brand but I really like them and they are inexpensive.

Sorry for the topic change...

Looks like a VTAC tube.

That picture was a joke, ah say a JOKE, Son!

Nobody around here would really shoot a thousand feet down into a valley like that.

If you had a Ruger you could!

You could do it with a sling-shot too, but it would still be stupid and irresponsible. I was making a West Texas joke, about the open spaces out this way. A lot of the ranches that bring in hunters here will tell you up front - Don't bring anything less powerful than a 30-06 or a 7mm Rem mag to hunt big game here. - The critters are big, and the shots are long.

The first gun-related thing that I did after moving here was to sell my old trusty .243, and purchase a 270WSM to take its place.

The main thing to remember about hunting in the high Chihuahauan desert though is to wear a pair of those hard plastic rattlesnake chaps. We have rattlers here but the main reason you want to wear them is for protection from the packs of feral chihuahuas. - They'll go for the ankles of course but if they ever get you down, that's it Buddy.

7 Rem Mag loaded with 180's

Chihuahan desert.

Well crap, I am not usually that gullible.