Never said you haven't helped anyone. If I did show me where. But we are back to your tactic of saying I'm butt hurt yet again as usual. I agreed with a guy who was dog piled because he didn't agree with you. If someone doesn't agree with you, and you run out of arguments you pull the hurt feelings or butt hurt card especially if proven wrong.

Well this went down hill in a hurry lol. Jason taught me a ton, I was very happy with being swindled out of my money

Ya see, you have to figure in the curvature of the earth & its rotational spin......that's all I've got.

I would like to apologize for my part in taking this down hill.

Now that you are finished with gloating that lemmings will follow, let's kind of break down these "credentials".


This has what to do with precision shooting qualifications?


So which course might that be exactly? Also I wonder when this was completed and if still current by NRA standards?

From the website with the followin courses offered:

"Instructor ratings are available to conduct the following NRA courses:

Basic Pistol Shooting
Personal Protection in the Home
Personal Protection Outside the Home
Basic Rifle Shooting
Basic Shotgun Shooting
Basic Muzzleloading Pistol
Basic Muzzleloading Rifle
Basic Muzzleloading Shotgun
Home Firearm Safety
Metallic Cartridge Reloading
Shotgun Shell Reloading
Range Safety Officer

I'm guessing you meant to say BASIC Rifle Shooting and were not trying to embellish your "credentials".


One is firefighting, how is that related to precision shooting? (I can't wait to hear this) The other is not a qualification to certify that you are fit to do so. That is like a person that poses as a surgeon, and does "more than a 100" surgeries somehow makes them "qualified" with no medical training. What it proves is that they are lucky if no one dies (in my example of impersonating a medical doctor).


Clearly not after only having to apply the most basic amount of critical thought. It really isn't difficult to cut through the BS.


Many of us on this forum shoot frequently. That would fall under personal proficiency training. Continuing education courses would be courses lead by others to provide feedback on what we are doing (both correctly and incorrectly) as well as ensure one is up to date on new theory, technology, and application of both technology and techniques. I'm going to guess, given your answer, that you have none.


Since you have mentioned this in your credentials what events and series have you won? What were the names of the competitions, locations and dates? So that it can be verified. Just showing up doesn't mean squat, unless you believe everyone get's a ribbon for just trying.

The following is just a pile of obstrufication.

Back to my previous point, fundamentals are the simplest thing to teach. They are fairly standard (with minor tweeks for individual body types and physical limitations).


Let me save someone the effort by providing a link on how to range using a reticle after a 2 second search, here is a LINK ] I bet you want a ribbon for that as well?


Walking a person out on a square range where dope is known (either by known MV (drop or chronograph) and developed as distance is increased (or calculated and verified) is not a huge feat, it is again basic.

Again a whole lot following so I'll try to break it down into little bites..

So you are an expert on all ballistic software? That is quite the feat. Both from a knowledge perspective and a cost perspective because I know what I use cost a small mountain of coin. The financial investment to have all the various ballistic calculators that are on the market today and keep inventory current would be prohibitive so cudos to you if that is the case! Also as you explain how a calculator works that implies actually walking through the calculations? I'm a math guy by nature and profession and it took me a while to wrap my mind around the calculations, so good on you for doing not only the same, but teaching them to others, again no small feat. The accolades of course are contingent upon you didn't embellish the above like everything else... I'm guessing you are embellishing a little, come on you can tell me.


This is an art, and for most, is seldom 100% correct. Something at intermediate ranges, what to look for can be explained, but proficiency will only come with practice. Another individuals time spent practicing is something unfortunately your hyper active ego cannot take credit for.


If the proper fundamentals are applied, follow through should minimize rifle hop (etc) to make this a natural byproduct.


How God like of you [sarcasim].

Your whole rant not only further affirms my impression that you are a poser, but adds that you seem to have an ego problem.


Back to my opening comments: "Now that you are finished with gloating that lemmings will follow"


Anyone that is turned off by my pointing what should be the obvious is clearly not a loss to me.

I'm off to bed, I hope that clears things up for you and anyone that cares enough to read it.

What are you trying to accomplish here? What motivation do you have?

I have not had a single negative review from anyone that has spent the day with me, yet you, only you look as if yoy have some moral high ground and feel it is your duty to tell everyone how I am cheating them out of their time and money. And that what I am doing is nothing special. I can tell you this, I am not going to stop anything I am doing just because you think I should. And if you want to push me out of business then become a direct compeitior with me and offer a better product for the same price or less. That is the only way all your B.S. banter is going to make a damn bit of difference.


Those questions were rhetorical because I really don't care what you think and really don't want you wasting anymore of anyone's time. I have to justify nothing to you or anyone else. My customer satisfacfion rating has been 100% positive, so 100 people satisfied greatly overshadows one man that says otherwise.

Obstrufication? Really? You seem to forget, RD, you were the first that was asked about qualifications......yet you remain silent on that. Myself and many others don't give a flying "f" what Jason's qualifications are...our money was well spent, we learned a ton and left happy.....and will do it again!

Perhaps you could start your own class on spelling!

P_102

Thin skin much? I noticed that you didn't answer any of my clarifying questions.

You asked why? I don't owe you squat, but this sums up the why very well: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke) I'm just not the kind/sort of guy that can sit by when I see something wrong. Admittedly it's a bit of a personality flaw that has bitten me in the behind before.

In the end your inflated ego can't let you admit you are just a hack. Worse you can't be honest to those that don't know any better (but you seem to have no issue with taking their money).

Those that think you are doing a good job, don't know any better and most that have commented in this thread admitted as much. They only "know" what you have told them. It's no different than buying a home, it may be nice and the buyer may be perfectly happy with it, but they don't know if it is structurally sound. So they get a home inspector to check it out. I have only pointed out your integrity, or lack there of.

I hold no ill will to those that have chosen to personally attack me for pointing out (with admittedly increasing directness) what an unqualified hack you are. They just don't know any better.

Do I want you out of business? No.

Be honest with your qualifications and let the customer decide. Embellishing, misleading and presenting oneself as an expert, but the reality couldn't be further when the truth is told, is just wrong. I do think it would be nice if you showed a little honesty, ethics and moral backbone though. This is Texas where those things still matter.

You can take this in a constructive manner, or pitch a fit and continue to strut around like a thanksgiving turkey. No one but you can decide how you are going to react.

Worthless banter. Tell us again about your qualifi....oops, never mind, you haven't. P_102

I havn't aswered your questions because you are a waste of time.

Now I have learned that:
I am evil
Have an inflated ego
Am just a hack
Am not honest
Have no ethics
Have no moral backbone


And the people defending me aren't very intelligent and don't know any better.

Please continue with your "constructive criticism".

I don't know you or Fireman but I figured I would put my 2 cents in. People have asked for your qualifications in this matter you have yet to give them out. Makes you look like a troll that is just trying to stir the pot. Fireman has never said he had qualifications just a lot of range time and experience and in most normal peoples book that count a lot more than some worthless class time staring at a screen or listening to some instructor. I am going to assume you are in this field of work. (I could be wrong lord knows I have been before) Instead of bashing someone you have never met over the web (we all know that makes big tough guys) go chat with Fireman face to face get to know him go shoot on his range then come back and judge. You both might learn something. Anyone that is involved in the shooting community and or hunting community need to help each other out. If Fireman helps many people get into this sport no matter his creds does it really matter? If everyone he teaches walks away happy and hitting steel 8x further than they ever tried I would say he did his job.


Now why don't you tell us all a little bit about yourself.

When I represent myself as an expert for financial gain, I indeed should (and do in my professional life) explain my qualifications and answer any questions, but I am not selling anything nor pointing out anything that isn't very basic. Directing that at me is just a misdirection, with the intent of distracting from crux of the issue: A person representing themselves as an expert for financial gain.

Think of all the Fireclean customers that are feeling duped after it has been reported that it is nothing more than canola oil. They perfectly happy using the product before, so what changed? They were mislead into thinking it was something more than what it was and paying a 10,000% mark-up for it. Not everyone is upset, some see the silver lining, now one can just buy some PAM to coat their AR15 bolt carrier group, and get the same benefit for less.

To be honest you can get much of what he is selling in the Magpul traing videos clearance sale DVD set for $9.99 (excellent production quality and entertaining to boot). In fact much of his nomenclature is exactly the same as what they use in the video's. I have a sneaky suspicion that that makes up the vast majority of his "qualification instruction". Buy the set, spend the difference in ammo and range time. Then go to classes, or with other shooters with an open mind, for an outside perspective on how you can improve. The added bonus is after watching the series you can re-read the posts made by Jason and get some comedic value added by reading him plagiarize others work.

The free advice is not free. He is selling his facilities and services, that is his payoff.

To be blunt: I am only asking him to be honest. The customer will vote with their dollars. That's the way things work, or should at least.

You have noticed when I quote you I have enough personal integrity to include a direct quote and the entire body so that your comments can be taken in context. I see you are lacking there as well, you really can't help yourself can you? Jason, I thought you were supposed to put fires out not light them.

Come on Rockfish Dave, you have been heard and we all get the message that you don't care for JG. Give it a rest, please. We are relatively intelligent folks (not lemmings) and we have chosen JG for instruction and input. It is our choice and you are free to disagree but this thread has gone way out of bounds and your venting is tiresome and counterproductive.

I too am a quote nerd and I like both quotes in your signature but your referencing Edmond Burke's quote has no place here as there is no "evil" present, just differing opinions. As you mentioned you have a "personality flaw" with the intensity of expressing disagreement and I think most would agree this is the case here. Think about it...

Have you taken his course, or are close to someone that has? It just seems that you are really trying to bash him and what he offers in a very personal way. For the record I don't know Jason, haven't taken his course and don't know anyone that has.

So, you're saying JG took the time to learn things, which he is passing on to others for a fee. Sounds like every college professor I ever had. How does that make him a hack? As for the 'nomenclature', isn't most of this standard across the industry/sport? I wouldn't expect to take a shooting course and have the instructor use words I'd never heard before.

I don't know Jason and I haven't taken his course. But I can tell you if someone took the time to study materials and practice the craft, then I would expect to pay that person who spent time to provide me that same information, work with me to practice it, and show me the results. And if they provided the facility to do all that, then that would also factor into the compensation I would give them.

Again, you talk about qualifications, but have provided none of your own to form a knowledge-base to which we can compare. All you've basically said is 'I know more than him and can tell you he's wrong, but I won't tell you how I know that or what he's wrong about, you'll just have to take my word he's a hack despite many of you feeling you received a good product'.

Jg appears to be a good instructor for what he does as evidenced by his feedback. I think Dave is annoyed by because this part of the forum has become a place where no one is allowed to disagree with jg. Jg knows about shooting but as with most things in life there is more then one way to do it, however only one side is allowed. The other side is shouted down. Look at the calibur debates, they almost always turn into a long range debate regardless of the op's intent.

It has gone past the past the point of disagreeing about rifles, ammunition, technique, etc. It has come to personal attacks of a man and the service he offers. Not sure what his mo is but its not helping his credibility.

If it was said this way there would not have been near the snowball effect that has taken place. instead it turned into

Dave averages 6 posts per month. If he has an issue, he should weigh in, rather than just attacking somebody. As others have posted above, we'd all like to learn, and the more information presented, the better. I've seen the caliber debates go both ways-look at the quarter-bore argument the other day. Only one person was arguing against it, and it wasn't Jason.

I disagree with JG all the time. He says 6.5, I say 30 cal .

In response to Dave:
I think I was one of the first to take his class and you can still see my very long drawn out review somewhere on this forum. Before his class I had never shot past 150 yards "accurately". After taking his class he gave me the foundation to build on my skills on my own time, which was what I was looking for. You're obviously not going to take one class and become a world class shooter even if the talent is there you still need lots of repetition just like learning any other skill. With that being said, I've had minimal practice since taking the class because life always seems to get in the way. I shot the long range competition, which was also put on by JG on his private land on his private range, but of course you don't want to talk about the awesome things JG does for us rifle shooters that might be intimidated by jumping head long into PRS or bench rest. Back on topic, with a stock savage 20" 308 rifle, center punched the 800 yard 1MOA target first try. Before taking JG's class I would have never been able to do that.

In short I don't feel "duped" at all, I would say money very well spent and I encourage everyone that is looking for long range training to take JG's class. I implore you to find another long range class out there with a private range and one on one class time for even close to what JG charges.

I don't average much more than that. After rereading, I think Dave thought jg had a one day class that was supposed to turn people into experts. Kroyle has a good description of the class. However, I don't know Dave's qualifications, I thought jg had more training then he does, but he has experience and that counts.

I don't know how I feel about this record. It was as a great shot but it took multiple rounds to get a hit. It seems like someone claims this record all time. A 2 moa rifle can hit a 1moa target at a 1000 yards if allowed enough shots. Guiness needs to step up with some qualifications.

A lot of valid presentations here for my entertainment value

[/quote]

I think Dave is annoyed by because this part of the forum has become a place where no one is allowed to disagree with jg. Jg knows about shooting but as with most things in life there is more then one way to do it, however only one side is allowed. The other side is shouted down. [/quote]

BINGO
The Kim Jong-un of THF