Over kill: any effort that seems to go farther than would be necessary to achieve its goal.

The goal of a rifle is to kill something. Most people (I said MOST Crazyhorse, I know I have to be very specific with you or you think I am saying something else) will never, and really shouldn't, attempt a shot at more than 300 or 400 yds. You do not need 3500 fps to make that distance. Besides, too much velocity makes a bullet expand too quickly. Barnes has made it better with the all-copper bullets, but others do not hold together so well.

Now, for some reason the Shooting media has got it stuck in everyone's head that "You NEED a super-fast Magnum round to take shots at 400 yds!". That is so far from the truth it's not funny. Magnums do have their bonuses, don't get me wrong, but bullet selection is a very important factor in taking advantage of a magnum round.

I know I went off with too much there. My point is: How much more dead will an animal be from 3500 to 3800 fps? And flat-shooting only really makes a difference out past 700 or 800 yds, where the amount of adjustment in your scope is a big factor. If someone is that concerned about range, buy a scope with Bullet Drop Compensation and use that. Leupold custom shop will make knobs for any load. They are only $50 too.

No, you don't have to be VERY SPECIFIC with me, it is just that you still did not explain overkill.

You gave your OPINION of overkill, but did not explain the term or how it applies to everyone.

I saw a guy drop a bull elk at 500+ yards with a 270 and a 150 grain bullet, 1 shot.

Was that Overkill, or in Your opinion was that Overkill.

Is dropping a deer with one shot from a 22-250 at 100 yards Underkill?

How about a deer at the same distance, 1 shot from say a 308, is that Perfectkill?

How about a deer at that same distance with a 340 Weatherby Mag., is that Overkill?

Three different deer, all the same distance, all killed with one shot each, 3 different hunters with the gun/caliber of their choice, all 3 hunters happy with their choice.

Was any of the 3 an Overkill in actuality or in your opinion.

While I don't agree with a person using a 50BMG for white tail hunting, I know folks do it, but I do not consider it Overkill, as I believe Elmer Keith stated one time, there is only One Degree of dead.

One of the most wonderful things about living in the United States is the Freedom of Choice on many things, the length of a rifle barrel is one of them.

I just don't see how a person wanting to use 26 to 30 inch barrels are practicing Overkill.

It is what they like, want, are willing to pay for and lug around.

Is it necessary to have a barrel that long, probably not, but I do not believe it is Overkill.

Just like your comment about scope choices, I do not agree with about 90% of the hunters in Texas about riflescopes.

I believe that they should use what they want or like, and while I feel that many of the features some folks want in a scope are unnecessary, I don't feel that it is Overkill.

Thanks for you answer as to what you think Overkill is, I just happen to believe that too many folks use the phrase when it really only applies to their opinion about something and actually has no real basis in fact.

RPM's can give smaller cal. a chance to perform to the same effectivness as larger calibers... Same performace less recoil...

There is a point where you might be underguned, but not unless you chasing the really mean, eat you type animals.

Many people consider Nilgi the toughest animal in TX and don't recommend you hunting them with any thing under a 270 with preminum ammo.... although many people take the fer efficently and effectively with a 257 wby.... RPM's kill

I never said that it being "overkill" was fact. I don't even believe you could make a standard for overkill. The barrel is not what I was talking about anyway. I was talking about the 4000 fps on a .25 caliber bullet. Yes, I do think that is overkill.

I never said anything about him being wrong for wanting to buy it either. See, I do have to be very specific with you because you always put words in my mouth. In fact, I don't think I have written a post that you decided to join in on where you didn't think I was saying something else.

But anyway, back to what I was saying. That definition was off the internet. It was the best definition I could find, and it was exactly what I was meaning by saying "overkill".

500 yd shot with a 270? That's a damn good shot. A regular .270 150 grain bullet moves around 2800 fps. And it killed that elk just fine. Would that elk have been any more dead with that same bullet leaving the muzzle at 3700? No.

My point is, and I know I kind of went off topic with it, is that you do not need magnum velocities to take animals at 500 yds. The shooting media leads you to believe you do however, with terms like "flat-shooting".

50 cal for deer hunting? That is just plain stupid. I've seen what it does to humans and I damn sure wouldn't want it to do that to a deer. But, some people don't care if they destroy half a deer as long as it hits the ground and they can say they killed it.

Again, I don't care about the barrel length. I just stated my opinion, which is buying a whole new gun, veritably a hard to find one at that, and spending so much effort to wring 3700 fps out of a round, IN MY OPINION, is, dare I say it, overkill. I understand where it has its place in shooting prairie dogs, where they literally explode, but even then those prairie dogs would be just as dead with 3200 fps.

I don't remember my comment about scope choices, or yours either.

But, by all means, if the guy just wants to but a 25 caliber and see how fast he can make it go, go ahead. I don't think I have ever said "You should definitely not buy that because I don't like it", but if I have go ahead and correct me. I don't mind being corrected. I do mind however when people try to change what I say. If its my fault that I come off wrong or I said something that was taken the wrong way then I apologize. I will correct what I am saying if possible.

Oh that makes sense.