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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: colt45-90]
#5720396
04/28/15 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
The three most commonly over-hyped claims in shooting/hunting: 1)I won't own a rifle that is not a 1/2 MOA shooter; 2)Every animal I shoot is always DRT; and 3)I never miss.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5720409
04/28/15 08:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162
RifleDude
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162 |
The three most commonly over-hyped claims in shooting/hunting: 1)I won't own a rifle that is not a 1/2 MOA shooter; 2)Every animal I shoot is always DRT; and 3)I never miss. 4. I shot that deer at 800 yards. I then ask them how many mils or moa of dope they dialed in their scope for the shot. "Huh?"
Ted
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: gusick]
#5720434
04/28/15 08:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162
RifleDude
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162 |
I was thinking about getting a kimber but I have almost talked myself into a Winchester featherweight instead. Still not sure. They seem pretty similar but I haven't got a close look at a kimber yet. They are similar in that both have Mauser style claw extractors, CRF, 3-position safety, and standing ejector. That's where the similarity ends. The Kimber action is scaled down considerably vs. the Win 70, so it is much lighter, without sacrificing strength. This, combined with a more slender barrel profile and more slender, shorter stock results in the Kimber being about 1.5LB lighter in the same chambering. The Win 70 FW is a nice rifle, and I think the newer FN built ones are better than the ones made by USRA in New Haven, but I personally believe by any measure, the Kimber is a nicer rifle.
Ted
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: RifleDude]
#5720509
04/28/15 09:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072
cabosandinh
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072 |
The three most commonly over-hyped claims in shooting/hunting: 1)I won't own a rifle that is not a 1/2 MOA shooter; 2)Every animal I shoot is always DRT; and 3)I never miss. 4. I shot that deer at 800 yards. I then ask them how many mils or moa of dope they dialed in their scope for the shot. "Huh?" if they're using one of the scopes with 800 yd hash mark then none like a ZEISS RZ8
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: colt45-90]
#5720534
04/28/15 09:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407 |
This thread is beginning to remind me of the days when guys I knew drag raced on west Glenfield in front of the Del Monte Green Bean plant for car titles or some other really expensive Prize that is TMI to talk about here... about 6 blocks west of Stevie Ray Vaughn's house...in deep southwest Oak Cliff where I grew up.
Dunno many guys who'd shoot for a chance to win or loose the rifle these days. Just Sayin' Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: colt45-90]
#5720597
04/28/15 10:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,709
huntandfish
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,709 |
I've had two .243, two .308's, one .223 and one .25-06 all kimber montanas. The .243 and .25-06 had to take a trip back to kimber for work. Both had stocks and barrels replaced and came back shooting great. I have a .243 left that shoots great even with a 1# suppressor on that thin barrel, but it is cut down to 18". It sucks they take a month to correct their problems in a new rifle, if they have to be worked on. On the Montanas, when they say bedded, its not actually bedding to the one action, they use a slave action on every stock, so its not a precise bedding job, but i guess better then none. I don't know how they bed the wood stocked stuff though. I always said if i wanted another light rifle i will buy a tikka and get it bedded in a lightweight mcmillian stock, that would make one bad nice shooting rifle, for close to the same price.
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: RifleDude]
#5720648
04/28/15 11:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,366
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,366 |
Kimber now does have a 1MOA guarantee on their rifles, incidentally, but I pay no attention to those "accuracy guarantees," because there are always strings attached. I've shot tiny groups as small as .3 MOA with this rifle before, but I don't consider it a .3 MOA rifle because my standards for accuracy levels are more stringent than the average hunter I run into. I don't like talking about what precision level my rifles will shoot on the internet because when I do, dozens of people generally come out of the woodwork to tell me their Howa/Remmy/Ruger/Winny/TC, etc will shoot "one hole groups all day long...if I do my part." I run into folks like that all the time at the rifle range. I've bet several of them $$$ they couldn't demonstrate that to me, and I've never had anyone take me up on that bet. I'm not at all saying you fall into that category, and maybe you've been extraordinarily lucky to buy nothing but 1/2 MOA rifles. If so, I wanna know your secrets! What I am saying, however, is that if a rifle won't shoot multiple 5 shot groups into 1/2MOA, repeatedly, more often than not, day in and day out, and continually agg at 1/2 MOA on demand, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle...by my standards. An occasional tiny group doesn't count, because luck could be involved. 3 shot groups may indicate a particular level of precision, but again, it isn't a true indicator statistically. I've never seen any rifle that shot 5 shot groups just as small as 3 shot groups out of the same rifle. 5-shot groups are statistically a better indicator of a rifle's precision, and multiple 5-shot groups even better. I know plenty of folks who shot a group with all rounds touching who saved the target so they could show all their friends. When they show me, I usually ask them to do it again. They usually can't, because the target in question isn't a true representative of what their rifle will do day in and day out. By that standard, very few factory rifles at any price are true 1/2 MOA rifles. I know of no brand or model of factory rifle that is a consistent, true 1/2 MOA shooter, all the time. If it can't do it more often than not, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle. I've seen very few shooters capable of consistently driving their sporter weight, factory rifles to 1/2 MOA either, and I've seen a lot of shooters. Obviously very few of the shooters I see at all the rifle ranges I've been to actively post on the internet. In this case, we're talking about a 5-1/2 lb pencil barreled rifle. 1/2MOA is a pretty tough standard for such a rifle, no matter the price tag. In this case, a Kimber 84M costs about $300 more than a Remington 700 CDL, and from my experience, I'd say the average specimen from both series shoots to about the same level of precision. The difference between the Rem 700 and the Kimber is the latter has nicer fit and finish and nicer wood on average. Plus, the latter has a livelier feel and a more refined stock design, IMO. That's where the extra $300 goes toward. When it comes to factory rifles, retail price is almost never proportional or in any way representative of accuracy potential. Some of the most accurate factory rifles I've seen were inexpensive Savages. I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me. Center punched it.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: huntandfish]
#5720832
04/29/15 01:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162
RifleDude
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 162 |
I've had two .243, two .308's, one .223 and one .25-06 all kimber montanas. The .243 and .25-06 had to take a trip back to kimber for work. Both had stocks and barrels replaced and came back shooting great. I have a .243 left that shoots great even with a 1# suppressor on that thin barrel, but it is cut down to 18". It sucks they take a month to correct their problems in a new rifle, if they have to be worked on. On the Montanas, when they say bedded, its not actually bedding to the one action, they use a slave action on every stock, so its not a precise bedding job, but i guess better then none. I don't know how they bed the wood stocked stuff though. I always said if i wanted another light rifle i will buy a tikka and get it bedded in a lightweight mcmillian stock, that would make one bad nice shooting rifle, for close to the same price. I bed all my bolt action rifles anyway, whether they need it or not, so factory "bedding" doesn't remain for very long after it comes out of the box. Factory rifle accuracy is a crapshoot. You're just about as likely to get a rifle that doesn't shoot to expectations from any of the major brands. If you know this going in and know how to correct issues yourself, it lessens the pain. Unless there are obvious, major QC issues with a rifle, I will never send one back to the factory, as I've always worked on my own guns and to me, a factory rifle is a starting point. I will say I've seen a higher % of Coopers that shot lights out right out of the box, but again, they are really "semi-custom" rifles. A buddy of mine has a Tikka T3 in .300 WSM that is a marginally decent shooter; nothing to write home about. I've seen Tikkas that shoot like a house afire and several that didn't shoot very well at all, so even though they do have a reputation for being good shooters, there are no guarantees you'll get one. Tikka T3 Lite ($650) + McMillan Hunter's Edge stock ($635) = $1285.00, or roughly $200 more than a Kimber Montana. The resulting combo will also be about 1LB heavier than an 84M Montana.
Ted
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: RifleDude]
#5721221
04/29/15 11:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030 |
I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me.[/quote]
Sounds like I hit a nerve I totally understand. I'll admit I don't know much about Kimber rifles or their gurantee and the majority of my rifles are in LR application, heavy barrel, after market stock, trigger, etc. I do the same as you shoot alot and have a few rifles myself. I also work in a gunsmith shop on my off time to pass time and to spend time with my dad. One of the things that intrigue me is some of the customers that have custom built rifles bring their guns in for a new scope, trigger, handloads, etc. and they do shoot better than some of the "non-custom," mass-produced rifles that we have. For reference we shoot them out to 800yds not just zeroing at 100-200. Now, there is a difference but in my experience however, none I've shot have made a world of difference. I know it has alot to do with the smith and the shooter, I'm not the best shot but shoot alot or more than the average Joe. With that said I've been salivating over a custom rifle but justifying investing that kind of coin is hard for me to swallow.
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Re: Kimber rifle ?
[Re: colt45-90]
#5721589
04/29/15 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234
gusick
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