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Ban on 223 ammo?
#5599120
02/14/15 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,652
Novemberyet
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,652 |
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammoIn a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. View Related Articles It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible. By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles: Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge. Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes. BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5599262
02/14/15 04:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
gramps
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gramps
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768 |
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#5599311
02/14/15 04:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
Armor piercing is a funny term. You don't want it as a defining term for bullet construction.
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BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
#5599481
02/14/15 07:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062 |
In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress. https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
ďż˝ Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: Toxarch]
#5599485
02/14/15 07:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,981
T Bone
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,981 |
I really hate to do what I am about to do, because it will be very painful for you.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5599523
02/14/15 08:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,111
J.P. Greeson
the janitor
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the janitor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,111 |
Armor piercing is a funny term. You don't want it as a defining term for bullet construction. Kinda like the term assault rifle.
“Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak, so we must and we will.” – Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: J.P. Greeson]
#5599531
02/14/15 08:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,476 |
Armor piercing is a funny term. You don't want it as a defining term for bullet construction. Kinda like the term assault rifle.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5599648
02/14/15 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674
91cavgt
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674 |
So am I the only one that is a little confused here?
Are they proposing to ban ball .223 ammo or just the steel core stuff?
The next question is if you currently own the proposed ban ammo, will you by law be able to hang on to it or would it have to be surrendered, by law?
God has a plan and something special in mind for all of us. Do you know the direction that God wants to send you?
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: Toxarch]
#5599705
02/14/15 11:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548 |
Is Cheaper Than Dirt charging $2 per round yet?
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5599718
02/14/15 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,198
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,198 |
I hope you get to hold onto it. I'll sell it for $2 a round and switch my AR over to 300BLK haha.
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: Toxarch]
#5599757
02/15/15 12:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,510
syncerus
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,510 |
A sportsman voting for a Democrat is like a chicken voting for Colonel Saunders.
NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: JCB]
#5599831
02/15/15 01:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199 |
Is Cheaper Than Dirt charging $2 per round yet? They will be soon.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: Toxarch]
#5599870
02/15/15 02:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517
Earl
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517 |
Well now.....now I understand why a fellow at Cabellas today was loading up can after can into his cart and I couldn't find a box of the Federal MX855 that was supposed to be on sale...well hell....
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Re: BATFE intends to ban M855 ball ammunition
[Re: Toxarch]
#5599908
02/15/15 02:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950 |
Is that the 62gr green tips?
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: 91cavgt]
#5599915
02/15/15 02:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617 |
So am I the only one that is a little confused here?
Are they proposing to ban ball .223 ammo or just the steel core stuff?
The next question is if you currently own the proposed ban ammo, will you by law be able to hang on to it or would it have to be surrendered, by law? They are talking about the M855 ball that currently has an exception. From what I read, it sounds like this to be a total ban on ammo that meets their definition of armor piercing. The exception will be removed which means anybody that has any M855 ball would be in violation and would be required to surrender it.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600012
02/15/15 04:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517
Earl
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517 |
Yes Gravytrain M855 is the 62gr green tips. SS109 is also 62gr and the exact same bullet (but not green tipped) - it is the Nato standard whereas M855 is the US designation - so unless the government is inept (possible) if they ban one they will ban the other. Pegasaurus, that information is incorrect. The ban would be against manufacturing, importation and selling by licensed manufacturers...It will be just as legal to own and to sell to someone else as 7.62x39 Chinese Steel Core is now. Of course though, prices went thru the roof on the stuff. "federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession," Crap, Crap, Crap...was just debating on whether to order some a couple of days ago from Palmetto State for $169 for a 420 round can of M855 on strippers with free shipping...all gone now.
Last edited by Earl; 02/15/15 04:25 AM.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600043
02/15/15 04:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053 |
This is a slippery slope. How long until they move on to other handguns, such as bfr's(45-70, 30-30, 30 carbine, and others.). They leave an exemption for single sgphot handguns but not revolvers.
Another point is any fmj 223 can penetrate soft body armor. How long till they tweek the definition to include it?
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600225
02/15/15 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950 |
So people are expected to turn it in or never use it or will they will just stop selling it but grandfather the stuff already out there?
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600349
02/15/15 04:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517
Earl
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,517 |
you can keep what you have. Prices are already going up a lot since yesterday. It's going for $1 per round I hear on gunbroker already...madness..
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600435
02/15/15 05:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548 |
I noticed the CTD removed their 855 from their site. Cant wait to see what the new price is. It was $399 per case of 1K for Lake City before it was removed.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600457
02/15/15 06:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548 |
On a more positive note..........I ran across a whole case of Remington Bucket Of Bullets 22LR today. $70 per 1400 round bucket. I didn't buy any at all. Maybe this means people will turn their attention to the M855 ammo and leave the 22LR alone.
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600488
02/15/15 06:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199 |
Already stocked up, no worries here. Hopefully this'll be a temporary thing, like the AWB. JCB, I'll bet CTD opens it back up around $799-899 per K. It'll only go up from there. No worries, though. If folks wait a bit longer, they'll have the opportunity to buy a case of M855 for just over a grand. I suppose if one has to have it right NOW, no price is too high.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600544
02/15/15 07:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 184
sneakyfletch
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 184 |
I went a different route and bought a 1000 ss109 bullets a couple of years ago told myself i was never buying otc ammo ever again only ammo i will ever buy is 22lr thats it not going thrue that bull $!#÷ ever again
99% is showing up
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5600770
02/15/15 10:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199 |
I wonder what happened since 1986 that made M855 so much more dangerous that it NOW has to be banned forever. I know, I know. Rhetorical question.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Ban on 223 ammo?
[Re: Novemberyet]
#5601089
02/16/15 01:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,645
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,645 |
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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