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Feb 7th, 2025
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 culling does
#552491
01/14/09 08:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232
buster2balls
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232 |
Should does be harvested before the rut or after?
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552492
01/14/09 09:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,676
cody
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,676 |
No spot for all season...
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552493
01/14/09 09:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 408
Koolade
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 408 |
Quote:
No spot for all season...
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552494
01/14/09 09:18 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262
RICK O'SHAY
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262 |
key word there for me is "should"
IMO you "should" shoot does before they are bred.
at our place we haven't seen many does the last 3 years so we hold off, if we end up seeing more does than we expect we take some late in the season.
DISCLAIMER
ATTENTION: Your decision should NEVER be based SOLELY upon my advice, recomendation, or opinion.
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Re: culling does
[Re: Koolade]
#552495
01/14/09 09:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232
buster2balls
OP
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232 |
i guess a better ? would have been before or after they are bred.
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552496
01/14/09 09:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,676
cody
THF Celebrity
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552497
01/14/09 09:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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It does not really matter now does it?
If a doe is killed before it has bred, then you have killed her and any possible future off spring her and any of her fawns would have produced.
If a doe is killed after she has bred, see explanation above.
It makes absolutely no difference when the doe is shot, her along with all/any future reproductive potential that she and any of her fawns or their fawns or their fawns fawns has been taken out of the picture.
What it does do, regardless of when she is shot is reduce the number of animals competeing for the available food supply, and allows the animals that survibve to obtain more food, thereby, for bucks, it means a better chance to produce the type of antlers its genetics are encrypted for, and for does, it means they will produce healthier fawns and be better able to raise them to recruitment age.
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Re: culling does
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#552498
01/14/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 191
aggie96
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 191 |
So many fish so little time
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Re: culling does
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#552499
01/14/09 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,468
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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If you kill them before the rut, the bucks will be out more during the rut looking for does because there are fewer does. Plus if you kill them before the rut, there will be more forage left for the remaining deer. But, if you kill them early, the bucks get scittish and may change their habits.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: culling does
[Re: BenBob]
#552500
01/14/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232
buster2balls
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 232 |
i understand the number thing but, one thing i dont think many people consider and it is a long shot is:
bucks breed X amount of does. Say you have a 160 class buck on your place. He will breed only a limited amount of the does. If does are harvested after the rut, there is a possibility of killing the does he bred. therefore allowing all the other bucks genes to be passed on. If does are harvested before the rut, the overall number of does is down therefore increasing the chances of the mature buck breeding a higher percentage of the does. Thus allowing his genes to be passed on. just a thought.
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552501
01/14/09 10:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,434
Stickchunker
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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X2 for Crazy Horse.
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552502
01/14/09 11:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,255
deerfeeder
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True...as far as it goes, but don't forget the doe provides half the genes and there is no guarantee that your 160 will sire bucks, he could be sireing more does. The "real" biologists pretty much agree with Crazyhorse. The time to shoot a doe is when you see her. They say start with the first and biggest and work your way down the list.  
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Re: culling does
[Re: buster2balls]
#552503
01/14/09 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,468
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,468 |
Quote:
i understand the number thing but, one thing i dont think many people consider and it is a long shot is:
bucks breed X amount of does. Say you have a 160 class buck on your place. He will breed only a limited amount of the does. If does are harvested after the rut, there is a possibility of killing the does he bred. therefore allowing all the other bucks genes to be passed on. If does are harvested before the rut, the overall number of does is down therefore increasing the chances of the mature buck breeding a higher percentage of the does. Thus allowing his genes to be passed on. just a thought.
I wonder just how many does a buck can breed? As strung out as the rut is in the Hill Country, a buck is going to get plenty of chances.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: culling does
[Re: deerfeeder]
#552504
01/14/09 11:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,292
moderno
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,292 |
Quote:
The time to shoot a doe is when you see her. They say start with the first and biggest and work your way down the list.
I agree.
Bartender, bring me anything except brake fluid, cause I don't plan on stopping!
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Re: culling does
[Re: BenBob]
#552505
01/15/09 12:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Bucks are not as skiddish as people think.
When I shot my doe on New Years Eve, with in 5 minutes after I shot we had 5 bucks back under the feeder, and a few does coming in to the feeder that were walking right past my doe where she was laying dead.
Admittedly, you go out there and shoot up the country side they may get a little more cautious.
As you pointed out about the bucks moving around more if the does are taken out pre-rut, and more food being left for the remaining animals, it all works out to the same results in the end, the does will be dead and out of the system, making room for new animals and easing the pressure on the forage base.
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Re: culling does
[Re: moderno]
#552506
01/15/09 12:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,676
cody
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After the rut we kill only the does carrying female fetuses, thus increasing the number of bucks and managing our ratio even further.
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552507
01/15/09 12:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 103
dirty bird
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 103 |
down near fowlerton, mc mullen county. a friend of mine has a rule on his place. before the rut starts... only hogs and spikes. his thinking is that the does will bring in the big bucks. but we try to keep track of what it is we have seen, numbers wise, for mgt. purpose. after the rut we take what we need for the freezer. spikes should always be on the lookout though.
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Re: culling does
[Re: dirty bird]
#552508
01/15/09 01:11 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,595
First_Chance
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2005
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in a strict management program (where harvest numbers are set), the prescribed burn rate is:
BEFORE RUT:
as many mature does as possible
as many management (cull) bucks and spikes as possible.
(85-90% of total harvest numbers is the goal)
POST RUT:
Mature Throphy Bucks are harvested
Management and culls harvested to make total numbers
Doe fawns are harvested to make totals numbers.
With this being said, I get to hunt some high fence stuff during the season but I lease a low fence place and we harvest does all season long because as CH says, it doesn't matter.
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552509
01/15/09 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,304
Big Tony
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
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Quote:
After the rut we kill only the does carrying female fetuses, thus increasing the number of bucks and managing our ratio even further.
Huh? How do you do that? Excuse me ma'am..............
"A hunt based only on trophies taken, falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be." -Fred Bear
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Re: culling does
[Re: Big Tony]
#552510
01/15/09 01:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,676
cody
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 11,676 |
We simply capture each one by helicopter using net guns, then we take blood samples and rush them to a lab in Zurich. They have developed a technique to determine the sex of the babies only days after conception. We then recapture that particular doe and give her an injection that kills her painlessly and without stress. If you don't take into account the stress of being pursued and then captured two times by a helicopter and the poking with needles in the middle. It's really the most efficient way we can think of to manage our deer population. As far as I know we're the only ones doing this but I feel like it will soon be catching on... 
Last edited by cody; 01/15/09 01:40 AM.
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552511
01/15/09 02:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,558
txtrophy85
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i try not to shoot does after teh rut, but we end up taking about 10 or so anyway.
but generally, i like to shoot them and the culls in november, so they don't have a change to breed and get bred
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552512
01/15/09 02:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,425
Texasbdog
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,425 |
I hunt in South Texas and our land owner prefers us to kill does late in the season. His reasoning is that the fawns are born late and the does need the extra time to raise the youngsters. Also our ratio is very close to 1-1 on our place and the fewer does means more fighting and broken tines before and during the rut. He wants us to hammer the spikes and culls early and don't give them a chance to breed. It seems to be working, we had quite a few 7 pointers on our place , deer with a brow tine and fork on one side and 4 on the other but now we seemed to have culled them out of the gene pool. We have been at this for 11 years and it is fun to go to the stand now and see mature bucks.
" What lies behind you and what lies before you are of little consiquense when compared to what lies within you"
R.W.E.
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Re: culling does
[Re: cody]
#552513
01/15/09 02:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,870
krs_2007
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Cody, this just proves your nuts. You aint right.
"Hard work is the price we must pay for success, I think you can accomplish anything if your willing to pay the price." ~ Vince Lombardi
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Re: culling does
[Re: krs_2007]
#552514
01/15/09 02:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,148
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,148 |
Two schools of thought I've come across.
First before the rut,,, less impact on the enviorment going into the winter months, and more competition for bucks, making them more active
After the rut...because of fawns and bringing in the bucks
Personally........ a really well managed ranch... same time you try to take all your culls.... before the rut.
the other 99.9 percent of the places out there when ever you can get them...anytime works as long as you are getting them.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: culling does
[Re: krs_2007]
#552515
01/15/09 02:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 75
The crappinator
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 75 |
Another reason to take them early is so other deer have more food throughout the season.
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