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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Seadog]
#5403287
11/06/14 07:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
Oh ok. I know the antler restrictions, (not that stupid) just didn't get the abbriviation. I know!!! I was just trying to make a point of why I dislike AR's!!! They say they want to save young bucks and then they say the 2nd buck has to be a spike, (hence my young "lookout")!!! Doesn't have to be... it just can be.
Last edited by Navasot; 11/06/14 07:58 PM.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403311
11/06/14 08:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,136
Satch
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,136 |
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Navasot]
#5403334
11/06/14 08:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,451
Seadog
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,451 |
Oh ok. I know the antler restrictions, (not that stupid) just didn't get the abbriviation. I know!!! I was just trying to make a point of why I dislike AR's!!! They say they want to save young bucks and then they say the 2nd buck has to be a spike, (hence my young "lookout")!!! Doesn't have to be... it just can be. Don't I know it!!! Personally, I go into the season thinking I'll take 1 buck/1 doe, (the buck is one of three that I hope survive the next 2 weeks and the doe I'll wait on because I don't see many with the young bucks running them all over the place), and as many as those blasted hogs that I can and be happy with that but there are those that go out wanted to use all of their tags!!! My "lookout" is growing fast!!! when I first saw him at the beginning of bow season, he was the size of a German Shepard and weighed about 45lbs and I could have picked him up one handed and thrown him in the back of the truck but he has grown a bit eating my corn!!! And he is legal!!!
I support Cap and Trade - Cap our spending and Trade Obama
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the Government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: txwingnut]
#5403335
11/06/14 08:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 480
grins
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 480 |
The AR isnt our big problem, in fact several of us land owners are talking about having a self imposed ban on our properties of bucks for a year or 2. Our problem is by our counts and estimates we are at about 1 buck per 20 does if not 1:30. We really need more than 4 day thanksgiving weekend for doe season!!! This
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: grins]
#5403343
11/06/14 08:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
The AR isnt our big problem, in fact several of us land owners are talking about having a self imposed ban on our properties of bucks for a year or 2. Our problem is by our counts and estimates we are at about 1 buck per 20 does if not 1:30. We really need more than 4 day thanksgiving weekend for doe season!!! This How much property are yall hunting?
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403376
11/06/14 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892
agsellers04
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. I believe in a hunter being allowed to use their own judgement when harvesting an animal. If a hunter wants to harvest a 10-inch wide, 1.5-year old, basket rack for the meat, or even just for the experience in the case of our young hunters, then by all means they should be allowed to. To restrict an entire region of the state with this regulation under the guise of improving the age structure of the deer herd is absurd. Hunters are, for the most part, more management minded toward hunting these days than in the past which has far more of an effect on the deer herd than any regulation ever could. They cater more to the trophy-minded hunter and disregard many of the more tradional non-trophy hunters. I am all for managing a healthy deer herd but restricting the harvest of approximately 1/3 of the deer population is in my mind taking too much freedom out of the hunting experience for too many hunters.
I am glad to see that so many hunters attribute your hunting success to the implementation of the antler resrictions but would you really have manged the deer herd any differently in their absense? Would the effect of conflicting management practices of neighboring hunters who choose to shoot immature bucks have had that much effect on your own practices? If they do, which I see as highly unlikely, then which neigbor must represent the majority? So whose interest is the state acting in here? It is all good and well that so many laud the effects of the antler restrictions but those proponents do not represent the ethic nor the fundamentals of all hunters.
Last edited by agsellers04; 11/06/14 09:05 PM.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403414
11/06/14 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719 |
ARs have done a lot for my county.
There were 3-4 bucks scoring over 150 killed within a mile of me opening weekend. That may not sound like much for some of you S Texas guys, but there weren't 3-4 bucks scoring 150 killed in the County the entire season a few years back.
Even the old timers that refuse to shoot "lady deer" around me have publicly marveled at how much better the bucks are since they were passed.
Love ARs. They're awesome.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: agsellers04]
#5403437
11/06/14 09:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. please explain?
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: agsellers04]
#5403530
11/06/14 09:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. I believe in a hunter being allowed to use their own judgement when harvesting an animal. If a hunter wants to harvest a 10-inch wide, 1.5-year old, basket rack for the meat, or even just for the experience in the case of our young hunters, then by all means they should be allowed to. To restrict an entire region of the state with this regulation under the guise of improving the age structure of the deer herd is absurd. Hunters are, for the most part, more management minded toward hunting these days than in the past which has far more of an effect on the deer herd than any regulation ever could. They cater more to the trophy-minded hunter and disregard many of the more tradional non-trophy hunters. I am all for managing a healthy deer herd but restricting the harvest of approximately 1/3 of the deer population is in my mind taking too much freedom out of the hunting experience for too many hunters.
I am glad to see that so many hunters attribute your hunting success to the implementation of the antler resrictions but would you really have manged the deer herd any differently in their absense? Would the effect of conflicting management practices of neighboring hunters who choose to shoot immature bucks have had that much effect on your own practices? If they do, which I see as highly unlikely, then which neigbor must represent the majority? So whose interest is the state acting in here? It is all good and well that so many laud the effects of the antler restrictions but those proponents do not represent the ethic nor the fundamentals of all hunters. Some select counties its not helping much... NE Tx seems to be the main concern but it has helped the majority of the counties under the restriction. In the since of having older bucks making it to see another year which IS going to lead to larger bucks since age is the main factor in that process. Do some counties need to be looked back over and have AR taken away? sure there are those that may need to have a change but it has done wonders for most. My counties use to not see a deer exist over 3yrs old and the processors would be loaded with young bucks every weekend. Now they are better than ever... and the hunters sure havnt changed their standards the law changed it for them.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403541
11/06/14 10:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892
agsellers04
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. please explain? Trophy deer hunting is a big money business that is no secret. The state is getting revenue from citations given to AR violators. Both of these things are economic. A deer with 13" or greater spread does not have better survivability than one with 10" antlers and that is a fact. Allowing four deer to be shot rather than three does not help the health of the population. When the regs allowed three deer however, the restrictions on doe harvest were much stricter so it was only one buck per season for the vast majority of hunters. Explain to me how allowing four deer to be harvested as opposed to one is good for the overall deer population. The AR counties do not have a problem with overpopulation. The regulation is geared towards growing more big racked bucks and skewing the age structure towards the development of big racked bucks, plain and simple. Having a herd with more large-racked trophy bucks does not equate to a biologically healthier herd at all. Biological health is directly related to habitat quality, climate, disease, sex ratio, fecundity, and population density. Of course only sex ratio and population density can be directly influenced by harvesting deer and fecundity can very indirectly be influenced (emhpasis on VERY). A herd with an age structure conducive to the development of larger racks does not improve all of these things in fact it creates imbalance in many cases.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Navasot]
#5403560
11/06/14 10:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892
agsellers04
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 892 |
Some select counties its not helping much... NE Tx seems to be the main concern but it has helped the majority of the counties under the restriction. In the since of having older bucks making it to see another year which IS going to lead to larger bucks since age is the main factor in that process. Do some counties need to be looked back over and have AR taken away? sure there are those that may need to have a change but it has done wonders for most. My counties use to not see a deer exist over 3yrs old and the processors would be loaded with young bucks every weekend. Now they are better than ever... and the hunters sure havnt changed their standards the law changed it for them. I have a bit of an issue with the law changing the standards of hunters for them. A large number of hunters did not want nor need to have their standards changed by the law. I know I did not. If by working wonders you mean resulting in more old, trophy class deer, then that is great if that was the goal you wanted to achieve. But not everyone has that goal.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: agsellers04]
#5403590
11/06/14 10:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. please explain? Trophy deer hunting is a big money business that is no secret. The state is getting revenue from citations given to AR violators. Both of these things are economic. A deer with 13" or greater spread does not have better survivability than one with 10" antlers and that is a fact. Allowing four deer to be shot rather than three does not help the health of the population. When the regs allowed three deer however, the restrictions on doe harvest were much stricter so it was only one buck per season for the vast majority of hunters. Explain to me how allowing four deer to be harvested as opposed to one is good for the overall deer population. The AR counties do not have a problem with overpopulation. The regulation is geared towards growing more big racked bucks and skewing the age structure towards the development of big racked bucks, plain and simple. Having a herd with more large-racked trophy bucks does not equate to a biologically healthier herd at all. Biological health is directly related to habitat quality, climate, disease, sex ratio, fecundity, and population density. Of course only sex ratio and population density can be directly influenced by harvesting deer and fecundity can very indirectly be influenced (emhpasis on VERY). A herd with an age structure conducive to the development of larger racks does not improve all of these things in fact it creates imbalance in many cases. I'll admit I had to google "fecundity". Also, I am all for promoting the growth of large racks...
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: agsellers04]
#5403620
11/06/14 10:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
Some select counties its not helping much... NE Tx seems to be the main concern but it has helped the majority of the counties under the restriction. In the since of having older bucks making it to see another year which IS going to lead to larger bucks since age is the main factor in that process. Do some counties need to be looked back over and have AR taken away? sure there are those that may need to have a change but it has done wonders for most. My counties use to not see a deer exist over 3yrs old and the processors would be loaded with young bucks every weekend. Now they are better than ever... and the hunters sure havnt changed their standards the law changed it for them. I have a bit of an issue with the law changing the standards of hunters for them. A large number of hunters did not want nor need to have their standards changed by the law. I know I did not. If by working wonders you mean resulting in more old, trophy class deer, then that is great if that was the goal you wanted to achieve. But not everyone has that goal. Nothing to do with trophy class even though that is nice im perfectly fine with shooting a big old framy 6pnt that wouldn't score jack... its more of letting that deer see its time. letting such thing as a rut happen were old deer mark their territory, chase, fight like its ment to be... getting the whole experience of what a mature herd has to offer. Would you pick a green tomato and eat it just because you can? Would you take a calf to market well before its reached its proper yield just to get that quick $... All just because you can? I agree not everyone has the same goals but the long term ones can offer so much more imo.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Navasot]
#5403914
11/07/14 01:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,668
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,668 |
Some select counties its not helping much... NE Tx seems to be the main concern but it has helped the majority of the counties under the restriction. In the since of having older bucks making it to see another year which IS going to lead to larger bucks since age is the main factor in that process. Do some counties need to be looked back over and have AR taken away? sure there are those that may need to have a change but it has done wonders for most. My counties use to not see a deer exist over 3yrs old and the processors would be loaded with young bucks every weekend. Now they are better than ever... and the hunters sure havnt changed their standards the law changed it for them. I have a bit of an issue with the law changing the standards of hunters for them. A large number of hunters did not want nor need to have their standards changed by the law. I know I did not. If by working wonders you mean resulting in more old, trophy class deer, then that is great if that was the goal you wanted to achieve. But not everyone has that goal. Nothing to do with trophy class even though that is nice im perfectly fine with shooting a big old framy 6pnt that wouldn't score jack... its more of letting that deer see its time. letting such thing as a rut happen were old deer mark their territory, chase, fight like its ment to be... getting the whole experience of what a mature herd has to offer. Would you pick a green tomato and eat it just because you can? Would you take a calf to market well before its reached its proper yield just to get that quick $... All just because you can? I agree not everyone has the same goals but the long term ones can offer so much more imo. An opinion I agree with Nav. You can bitch and complain about not being able to shoot young bucks just because you want to but history shows that allowing anyone to hunt the way they want to allowed deer, bear, elk, buffalo etc..... to be wiped off the face of the map. We have more deer now than we've ever had on this continent because of laws protecting the resource. And looking at each season the last few years from east Texas we keep seeing more and more awesome bucks, gifts from mother nature because we allow them to grow and mature.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403926
11/07/14 01:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,242
wp75169
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,242 |
This is what's going on in east Texas!
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403954
11/07/14 01:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5403964
11/07/14 02:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
What is going on in East Texas? People are getting pics of big deer on trail cams that store thousands of pics vs going and getting film developed of the first doe that stayed in front of it for a feeder throw and hold out hope to kill them while other legal deer get to walk. We'll call it the jshouse-effect.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5404060
11/07/14 02:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,162
whitewing maniac
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,162 |
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5404077
11/07/14 02:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466
Jkd106
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,466 |
I don't always hunt AR counties, but when I do I pass up 12"ers!
Last edited by Jkd106; 11/07/14 03:01 AM.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: wp75169]
#5404396
11/07/14 06:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,451
Seadog
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,451 |
This is what's going on in east Texas! Where is your lease at? Road trip!!!
I support Cap and Trade - Cap our spending and Trade Obama
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the Government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Navasot]
#5404435
11/07/14 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498
Erathkid
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498 |
Yeah its cuz of the big bad locals that your not seeing any deer...
By Joe, I think you've got it old chap.
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it. Don't text and drive.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: agsellers04]
#5404457
11/07/14 10:43 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
The reasoning behind ARs is unfortunately more about economics than they are biology. I believe in a hunter being allowed to use their own judgement when harvesting an animal. If a hunter wants to harvest a 10-inch wide, 1.5-year old, basket rack for the meat, or even just for the experience in the case of our young hunters, then by all means they should be allowed to. To restrict an entire region of the state with this regulation under the guise of improving the age structure of the deer herd is absurd. Hunters are, for the most part, more management minded toward hunting these days than in the past which has far more of an effect on the deer herd than any regulation ever could. They cater more to the trophy-minded hunter and disregard many of the more tradional non-trophy hunters. I am all for managing a healthy deer herd but restricting the harvest of approximately 1/3 of the deer population is in my mind taking too much freedom out of the hunting experience for too many hunters.
I am glad to see that so many hunters attribute your hunting success to the implementation of the antler resrictions but would you really have manged the deer herd any differently in their absense? Would the effect of conflicting management practices of neighboring hunters who choose to shoot immature bucks have had that much effect on your own practices? If they do, which I see as highly unlikely, then which neigbor must represent the majority? So whose interest is the state acting in here? It is all good and well that so many laud the effects of the antler restrictions but those proponents do not represent the ethic nor the fundamentals of all hunters. The effect of not doing anything was plainly evident in the age structure of the deer that were being taken prior to ARs. Bunch of goathead 1 1/2 year old bucks. Obviously, folks were not holding their trigger finger because they knew their neighbors were not holding theirs. It was a vicious cycle. The effect of ARs is also plainly evident- much better bucks being taken. The only pain ARs caused was the 2-3 year wait for the results to manifest themselves. Now, even the vast majority of the "it's brown it's down" folks are happy with ARs. They are now free to "represent their ethics and fundamentals" while looking over a much better age class of deer. I would conservatively guess the for/against numbers on ARs to be 90%+ "for" at this point.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5404551
11/07/14 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,668
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,668 |
Update: Another monster 14 point buck killed yesterday by my neighbors dad on 60 acres between Tyler and Palestine. Will post pics Monday when I'm back in town from hunting.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Pitchfork Predator]
#5404589
11/07/14 01:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
Update: Another monster 14 point buck killed yesterday by my neighbors dad on 60 acres between Tyler and Palestine. Will post pics Monday when I'm back in town from hunting. MONDAY!!?? Unacceptable, completely unacceptable.
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Re: What the heck is going on in East Texas?
[Re: Grosvenor]
#5404601
11/07/14 01:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Most folks would agree they don't agree with the new age "everyone gets a trophy" mentality......it cheapens the trophy.
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