Was it Fannin lumped in with Angelina or Red River?

Best evidence they are working just as intended is the overwhelming support for them. Across the board.

I definitely think it has helped where I hunt and im not scared to say it

Antlers are just a by-product

From the article...

right

Check stations and more information than game warden reports or landowner survey's might produce better data...

Fannin County whitetail enthusiast Garrett Amlin:

"In Fannin County, Amlin is passionate about the success of antler restrictions, though he does concede some possible downsides.

“I think antler restrictions could discourage kids that are new to hunting,” he says. “I have kids that are coming of hunting age. If we see a nice little six- or eight-point that will not make 13 inches, it will be frustrating for my kids when they are told they can’t shoot it. It is hard to get young kids on deer, so that could be the only opportunity they get all season.”

Furthermore, he thinks that some deer possibly could be wasted because of the restriction. He can see where a hunter might accidentally shoot a borderline legal buck but leave it there rather than risk a ticket by tagging and removing the deer."

Curly,

I'm glad to see you are still consistent!

I'm also glad that ARs are still in force!

My uncle is on one in Mason Co. Out of the 12 property owners around him, 8 are members and follow the recommendations of the game biologist. The other 4 do as they please

Do you really want all that check station down here? C'mon man, this is Texas.....

Yes, I want better data if they are going to extrapolate that far out. Even their peer review told them it was bad data and that it was not right to expand the process based on the poor data and small sample size.

What I get out of that statement is that with the AR's in place we are only killing off the top 21% of yearlings. In other words the ones that have the greatest potential for the largest antlers are legal as a yearling and killed. What a great management strategy!

I get that people like the restrictions but they get more credit than they deserve. They just happen to align with a movement of growing bigger antlers. How many times do you read a thread and people say "He's legal but I'm going to give him another couple of years."? Or someone posts a thread asking if a buck will make 13" only to have 50 replies saying yes but he's too young to shoot. How can a reasonable person attribute that to ARs? If he's legal to shoot and people are not shooting him it has NOTHING to do with ARs. Oh well, I'm just a dumb East Texan that has no idea how to manage a deer herd so my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I've said many times I've had bucks out in front of me and passed on them that were legal 13" plus bucks and I'm in an AR county. Just because they are legal shooters doesn't mean every is going to shoot them or announce they passed up on a legal shooter.
Maybe the meat hunters can't wait for 13" deer to step out, but that's their choice and nothing wrong with it, and if anyone says anything negative, they are just stirring the pot, but to say you haven't seen anyone say they pass on legal deer, you just haven't read many posts here.
I don't wish to offend anyone, but over the years now these AR threads have proven one glaring fact to me. That fact is it's always the same handfull of people who complain year in and year out about AR's. There are a few new comers but they seem to always be first timers hunting in an AR county and haven't seen the long term effects or history of their ranch. JMHO!

You should read my post again and read it more slowly this time. You're trying to argue with me by stating the exact same thing I said.

No argument intended!
One fact remains and that is, AR's have been in place long enough now that any group that doesn't like them would have, should have, risen up and protested in such numbers that they would repeal the law or at least adjust it to satisfy those hunters. It may have already been done, but if so it's only a small number that have been effected.

Their goal was never to "make hunters mad". I don't think anyone ever said that. Their goal was to grow larger antlers.

I'll see if I can break down my point a little better.

People see and pass legal deer more and more often
Passing legal deer has nothing to do with ARs
You can't pass a deer that is legal as a 2 year old and kill him as a 5 year old and praise ARs for that

I get it!

I've hunted the same 400 acre ranch for 30+ years, and before AR's you couldn't see a buck over 13" and there just weren't that many deer.
After AR's were in place for several years, the populations increased dramatically, as well as the age class of the bucks, which meant a bonus of bigger horns and the chances for bucks to mature and get smarter with age.
So maybe I imagined all this, but it's worked in my area for whatever it's worth!
I'll always support AR's until they prove to me that they don't work, at least in my area.
I also get it!

ARs are awesome. Will knock out this little Ebola issue if given the room to run.

ISIS got you worried?

UNLEASH ANTLER RESTRICTIONS

Somebody needs to slap some ARs on the stock market muy pronto amigos.

I have never said they don't work, especially in areas with the density to allow the extra harvest; but in low density areas, when the bag limit goes from 1 buck to 2 buck/2 does, the deer disappear.

I am glad it worked in SE Texas. I think it's a failure in Red River, Lamar, Fannin; but we'll never know as they don't have measurable data to prove it was needed, or that it has helped or changed at all since implementation.

My belief is AR's work, Lamar County. I'm sure many other members can remember the 1960ish history of deer hunting in Northeast Texas, i.e. Lamar and Red River Counties. Very short seasons that eventually got to appx. 2 weeks long. We would skip school or have a pass from the principal to hit the Paper Mill woods in Red River county and for many seasons never lay eyes on a deer. If we seen tracks it was a hot topic of discussion. Fast forward and I can see deer almost any time that I'm out and about. Since deer were so scarce if it had any antler protruding it got shot! The motto was deer, buck, BOOM!! How times have changed, coop's, deer hunter's taking a page out of the Bass fisherman's book about letting them walk/throw them back in to grow, food plots, management programs, breeding programs, and change of hunter's attitude about letting young bucks walk. Not enough said nor credit given to many sportsman for keeping the finger off the trigger. Biologist say the finger pulling the trigger is a management tool, good and bad.
I have had a small place for many yrs. in Lamar County which is in MLDP program with many other land owner's. We have to do surveys, walking, camera, spot light every yr as well as incidental siting's and hunting diaries submitted to our local biologist. They also do their on spot light surveys through all the counties, and to gather more data they work at the many deer processing plants on the week ends. The biologist have a lot of resources to get good solid deer data for trend analysis. Ours in Lamar co. has improved, believe at the last mtg. I attended (6) 160 class buck taken last yr with many nice mature animals.
If you want your head to spin around like you need an exorcist then avail your self to attend a meeting presented by the Nobel Foundation from Oklahoma. Even though they resided in Ok. their service district encompasses a circular 100 miles which includes Part of North East Texas. I have attend their presentation for several yrs, the latest presented in Clarksville. Tx. Red River co. last month. They have hone and polished their presentation to perfection and to my ear make it difficult to refute their findings. They have 24 yrs of hard scientific data to include ear tags on known bucks DNA markers etc. It is just too involved to lay it all out in a thread. Believe they said next mtg. sometimes in 2015 Gainesville, Texas area. Teaser, When it comes to aging deer by jaw bones and on the hoof, well, we ( to include the professional biologist) are not real good at doing so. They know for a fact how old the deer was prior to its demise and harvested a multitude of jaw bones. All attendees failed the test, we did occasionally get one right. Several yrs ago they ask biologist nation wide to age the jaw bones, ( many biologist are still mad at them) they managed around 30-40% accuracy with young deer, read fawn, 1.5 yrs old but after the deer became older they to failed. You have to see the presentation and data they have accumulated, impressive and stands you on your head. They also presented pictures for us to age deer on the hoof, the attendees had age classes flying all around the room, when we finished, we all failed again. All deer shown were 3.5 yrs old. These techniques are useful but not completely accurate, I now age mine fawn, yearling, mature. You can locate them on the net by typing in Noble Foundation. If you are interested in such, worth taking a day off to attend.
Have AR's and other management techniques made a difference in North East Texas since 1960 to date, Yes is my answer.

I get what BowSlayer is saying. Yes, hunters have to legally let a buck with antlers less that 13" wide walk but once that buck is legal to take, it's up to the hunters to use their judgement on whether or not to shoot it. From that point on, antler restrictions have nothing to do with anything. It's then that the hunters NOT the restrictions should get the credit. So when you see a trophy buck, unless it's because it's a smart buck, it's because hunters voluntarily chose to let that buck live long enough after it was legal so it could grow to be a trophy.

It's kind of like putting up a sign saying "All geese please migrate South for the Winter" and then when you see a bunch of geese flying South you brag to all your friends about how well your sign is working. Ummm, they were going to do that anyway just like more and more people were starting to manage for antlers and yet credit ARs for widespread success.

They would not bother me near as much if they would simply not enforce them on our kids. 16 years old or younger should be able to shoot any dang buck they want to and do it legally. Lots more states have ARs besides Texas. The difference is that the other states do not enforce them on kids. Heck, even the Texas drawn hunts don't enforce them on the Youth Hunts on WMAs. If they Biologists on the WMAs have enough sense to know they shouldn't hold kids to that standard then why can't the higher ups figure that out too?