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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278582
08/29/14 04:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278586
08/29/14 04:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Yeah, all the outfitters use pack strings-we rode in 23 miles from base camp to the hunting area.
I will say this-not only are the Argos destructive, but a hunter misses out on a huge part of the experience using them. The beauty of a remote place like that is the absolute peace and quiet you get to experience. An Argo destroys that. Plus you are hunting while on a horse and running game off using an Argo. In that environment, they really suck. I can see why there is such an uproar. IMO it is justified.
It's the "lazy" way out because Argos don't need tending to like horses. Argos don't spoke with bears, Argo don't spook from lighting, Argo need min operation experience, Argo won't bite or kick you. Safer, not everyone is horse ready. Lazy wouldn't be the term I would use. OK. I do. If you've ever been there, you know that the constant whine of a combustion engine in that pristine, silent country is about like a turd in a punchbowl. It ain't the the Colorado Rockies, Wyoming, or even Montana. Even British Columbia. Safer than horses? Maybe from a riding standpoint. But sometimes you have to do what the country asks of you to actually experience it. There is no hunt like a pack train hunt into remote country. To deny your clients the experience of that for expedience's sake is to deny them the true experience of all the country has to offer IMO. Again, before everyone goes off on rabbit trails-we are talking about one of the few truly unspoiled places in North America. You can't get that experience many places in the world nowadays. Tooling around in an Argo destroys it. As for safety, again, maybe from a riding standpoint. But let your Argo break down 30 miles from camp and your Sat phone get wet. Or get separated/turned around. A horse will get you out and save your life. An Argo will rot on the tundra. I'll add that an Argo can't go a tenth of the places a horse can-so your hunt is handicapped from the get-go from that standpoint alone. That alone is reason enough to not use them. If you don't like "lazy", call it convenience. Convenience carries a high price in that country. Not just a riding stand point, my cousin got a ruptured spine for being kicked..and was helo'd off a mountain. Good friends son got killed in high country when horse reared up and killed him. How many personal examples you want. You don't deprive a customer of an experience when they signed up for the trip knowing they use argo's. I get the damage part. But same stand point look at the benefits clear cuts, etc. end up providing. Understand that's not how you want to hunt, but not every on is still as mobile as you
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278593
08/29/14 04:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666 |
I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278611
08/29/14 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358
jshouse
THF Trophy Hunter
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If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278618
08/29/14 05:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 557
Littledog
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 557 |
I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level. Yet I've never heard Jim "inform" his audience of any of these accomplishments. That's what makes his shows so nice to watch. Very genuine, humble and understanding of the blessing he has received. You wont hear any "me" "me" "I" "I" statements. If I hear another Tom Miranda "I have the grand slam" and "the grand slam is the most difficult quest in hunting and I have it" speech, I may throw up. Instant channel changer for me.
Last edited by Littledog; 08/29/14 05:06 PM.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278619
08/29/14 05:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level. Deflection. Not what I am saying. Don't see many (if any) sheep hunts in his concession using Argos. It's moose and caribou for his clients. We are talking about his Yukon hunts using an Argo. Not his personal accomplishments, which are legion.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/29/14 05:15 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Littledog]
#5278633
08/29/14 05:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level. Yet I've never heard Jim "inform" his audience of any of these accomplishments. That's what makes his shows so nice to watch. Very genuine, humble and understanding of the blessing he has received. You wont hear any "me" "me" "I" "I" statements. If I hear another Tom Miranda "I have the grand slam" and "the grand slam is the most difficult quest in hunting and I have it" speech, I may throw up. Instant channel changer for me. I agree. "Uncharted" is certainly not like that. "The Professionals" kind of tended in that direction with all the yakking about logistics, cameraman difficulty, etc. What they have figured out is that is all apparent from just showing the hunt and the harsh country itself. No real need to blather on about it.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278636
08/29/14 05:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666 |
I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level. Deflection. Not what I am saying. Don't see many (if any) in his concession using Argos. It's moose and caribou for his clients. We are talking about his Yukon hunts using an Argo. His website shows about two sheep hunt pictures a year.. Probably about right,tag number wise
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278640
08/29/14 05:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I'm a Fudd. I get float planes open up country and I wouldn't want to ride a horse 400 miles. But, once there, riding an Argo or taking a chopper to the top of the mountains to knock off the game and get back ASAP defeats the whole purpose IMO.
You will notice Shockey does few (if any) sheep hunts. Tooling around in an Argo may work for lowland moose and mountain caribou but sucks for wary and mountain-dwelling sheep. Jim has taken the Super Slam, Ultimate Slam, Grand Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Sheep, World Slam of Goats, Triple Slam (goats and sheep) and Super 20 (goats of the world) and Jim has taken every one of the SCI Inner Circles at the Diamond level. Deflection. Not what I am saying. Don't see many (if any) in his concession using Argos. It's moose and caribou for his clients. We are talking about his Yukon hunts using an Argo. His website shows about two sheep hunt pictures a year.. Probably about right,tag number wise If they use Argos and his client is not disabled or otherwise infirm, they are missing out.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278666
08/29/14 05:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666 |
Why not just walk the whole thing?
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278696
08/29/14 05:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,654
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,654 |
Yeah, all the outfitters use pack strings-we rode in 23 miles from base camp to the hunting area.
I will say this-not only are the Argos destructive, but a hunter misses out on a huge part of the experience using them. The beauty of a remote place like that is the absolute peace and quiet you get to experience. An Argo destroys that. Plus you are hunting while on a horse and running game off using an Argo. In that environment, they really suck. I can see why there is such an uproar. IMO it is justified.
It's the "lazy" way out because Argos don't need tending to like horses. Argos don't spoke with bears, Argo don't spook from lighting, Argo need min operation experience, Argo won't bite or kick you. Safer, not everyone is horse ready. Lazy wouldn't be the term I would use. OK. I do. If you've ever been there, you know that the constant whine of a combustion engine in that pristine, silent country is about like a turd in a punchbowl. It ain't the the Colorado Rockies, Wyoming, or even Montana. Even British Columbia. Safer than horses? Maybe from a riding standpoint. But sometimes you have to do what the country asks of you to actually experience it. There is no hunt like a pack train hunt into remote country. To deny your clients the experience of that for expedience's sake is to deny them the true experience of all the country has to offer IMO. Again, before everyone goes off on rabbit trails-we are talking about one of the few truly unspoiled places in North America. You can't get that experience many places in the world nowadays. Tooling around in an Argo destroys it. As for safety, again, maybe from a riding standpoint. But let your Argo break down 30 miles from camp and your Sat phone get wet. Or get separated/turned around. A horse will get you out and save your life. An Argo will rot on the tundra. I'll add that an Argo can't go a tenth of the places a horse can-so your hunt is handicapped from the get-go from that standpoint alone. That alone is reason enough to not use them. If you don't like "lazy", call it convenience. Convenience carries a high price in that country. good discussion. makes me wanna grab me muzzy & go wondering about the woods. like pappy always say's: never was much for letting callaces build up on me arss. keeping up with the times, Equate takes the pain outa the Equation for whin that big one pops out tis gonna be a rough year.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278711
08/29/14 06:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,654
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,654 |
Why not just walk the whole thing? been thar done that. people laugh & make fun of ya
i'm postaddic
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278761
08/29/14 06:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Why not just walk the whole thing? You are obviously not getting where I am coming from. You can't walk the whole thing and cover the ground you need to unless you are: 1) Cameron Hanes and 2)Have 2 months set aside for a hunt. Argos can't climb mountains. Horses are the way to go because they cover rough ground with maximum efficiency. Some sheep areas you do have to backpack into-even a horse won't cut it. The Yukon concessions are by and large horse accessible-so smart, good hunters and outfitters have used them since the late-1800's. It's stupid not too. Even for the areas that require walking. Why would you walk 30 miles to a walking area when a horse can take you there? An Argo couldn't have even made it to our spike camp that we rode horses out of-it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. We rode horses another 6-8 miles each day from spike camp, and then started walking. And we were hunting the whole way instead of running all the game out of the country. Again, Argos suck and ruin the experience because they are a turd in a punchbowl up there. I guess you just have to be there to understand that.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/29/14 06:41 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278790
08/29/14 06:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. that's not a bad walk... it's only a full day of walking.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: rifleman]
#5278802
08/29/14 06:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666 |
it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. that's not a bad walk... it's only a full day of walking. If you can't go 23 miles up in a day with 70lbs, shouldn't be hunting
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278847
08/29/14 07:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,045
Western
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it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. that's not a bad walk... it's only a full day of walking. If you can't go 23 miles up in a day with 70lbs, shouldn't be hunting OH paleaze....That would be 70% of folks. If I want to go "hike" I will go only as far as I need to. If I am hunting, I will still only go as far as I need too! LOL I will let all you special forces fellas go on the long combat missions LOL BOBO, I hope you where being as half hearted joking as I was...
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278849
08/29/14 07:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,045
Western
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I was under the impression that the argo was only used to older folks and crossing wet/swampy areas. I believe he says that one a few shows where he had his dad along and another time when he had his dad and his dads old buddy.
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278917
08/29/14 08:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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If it's the stubborn award, yes. Or maybe the argue for the sake of arguing award.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Western]
#5278923
08/29/14 08:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I was under the impression that the argo was only used to older folks and crossing wet/swampy areas. I believe he says that one a few shows where he had his dad along and another time when he had his dad and his dads old buddy. Nope. They use it wherever they can-which covers a lot of flat country and rolling country that moose and caribou inhabit in the Yukon.But not the mountains or on the backside of mountains where they can't go. He does use them extensively in southern Canada also-a lot of folks do. That's not what I am talking about.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/29/14 08:04 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Western]
#5278925
08/29/14 08:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I was under the impression that the argo was only used to older folks and crossing wet/swampy areas. I believe he says that one a few shows where he had his dad along and another time when he had his dad and his dads old buddy. Keep in mind he's not a spring chicken either, so the Argos are running regardless of client. There's a cpl guys on a show hunting Yukon moose with him that marathon train over 9k'....they rode in an Argo.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#5278934
08/29/14 08:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. that's not a bad walk... it's only a full day of walking. If you can't go 23 miles up in a day with 70lbs, shouldn't be hunting OK, take 4-6 days (coming and going) out of your 2 week hunt needlessly killing yourself just getting to the sheep area. (It takes a day for the horses to do it.) I'll ride my horse and pack in some gear in the process. Just like the mountain men did.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 08/29/14 08:09 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Western]
#5278940
08/29/14 08:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,666 |
it was 23 miles up the mountains above timberline. that's not a bad walk... it's only a full day of walking. If you can't go 23 miles up in a day with 70lbs, shouldn't be hunting OH paleaze....That would be 70% of folks. If I want to go "hike" I will go only as far as I need to. If I am hunting, I will still only go as far as I need too! LOL I will let all you special forces fellas go on the long combat missions LOL BOBO, I hope you where being as half hearted joking as I was... More like 100% joking here. NP main points where his opinion of what the hunt should be... Opinion. Kind of like traditional vs compound, guide vs unguided.. Etc I don't care if you use an apache helo to get to the top of the mountain
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: rifleman]
#5278947
08/29/14 08:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I was under the impression that the argo was only used to older folks and crossing wet/swampy areas. I believe he says that one a few shows where he had his dad along and another time when he had his dad and his dads old buddy. Keep in mind he's not a spring chicken either, so the Argos are running regardless of client. There's a cpl guys on a show hunting Yukon moose with him that marathon train over 9k'....they rode in an Argo. It's strictly a convenience thing for him. He could obviously do it. But horses have to be ridden in from Ross River (or another village) and ridden out at the end of the season. Plus tended to by a wrangler 24/7. He just doesn't want to mess with all that. So he doesn't give his clients all they could otherwise get with horses.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Jim Shockey's "Uncharted"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5278958
08/29/14 08:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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A lot use the choppers. Fudds like me don't get it-or like it. But at least it doesn't slice up the country. So there's that.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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