the big oil and gas money is those that already have land. Most ranches or acreage is retirees. Big portion from up north.

Like you said though $ 10 an acre is barely fence up keep. I scratch my head when people think their deer lease trumps stock (cattle. .etc).

Getting in a pissing match with cattle lessor or landowner over grazing is a lossing battle. With that said there are a few places where hunting lease rates trump cattle, but one cant forget, there are 10 guys behind you itching to lease it.

Treat your landowner like he is your number one client, and life is much better. Day you think its the other way around you will be shopping for a lease

Op says fences are in bad shape so goats aren't an option anyhow. Cows will stay in a questionable fence as long as they have feed and water for the most part. It's a shame that there isn't more ethical behavior by hunters who lease but there are some winners out there for sure. Being a landowner and a lessor I see both sides. But it also helps keep things in perspective for me so I know what I need to do to stay in good standings with a land owner.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying a deer lease trumps ranching/stock, im just fishing for info. How much can you really earn after expenses, vacinations, fence upkeep, hay etc. on cattle? Im sure some places are like a hay meadow in east texas and you can run cows all over, but lots of other places don't support that.

Plus the whole my neighbor asked me oh and by the by she also happens to be my stepmother sounds a little fishy.

Something else to consider, running livestock also makes a big impact on land taxes (the AG exemption), something you don't get running hunters

We do

Dennis, I don't think that's accurate, at least in Texas. It is my understanding that if you follow specific wildlife management practices, it will be considered agricultural use and the landowner gets the equivalent of an agricultural exemption for the land.

Its easy said until you try and get it done. Some counties are easier than others to do.. around me your best bet is Ag exemption.

From my understanding its easy if you really intend to do what all it takes to get the exemption. Ours is a piece of cake and we do everything we would need to do anyway just with our normal hunting/record keeping. People who want to have 1 cow for a few months and call it ag exempt seem to have a hard go of it.

I looked into the wildlife management option but since I have hay meadows and pine timber planted it was easier just to stay with that.

Redhevy,

Right now you can gross 1200-1400 a yearling a year. Figure $ 100-120 a head (vacs, commissions, transport, etc,
Depending on your ASU. Everything flexes and varies via rainfall. One yearling per 5-50 acres(central and east tx).

That's on cow calf. On breed to pair, cow trader type stuff 600-1000, but higher ASU since your not keeping a whole year.

Put this way if the cattle lease is worth 10 acre, you can bet the leasor is making 18-22 if not more an acre.

Yeah, from the outside looking in it always looked to me like in this day and age if you do not already own land the only way to actually make money on cattle would be to lease.

Thats for sure, some want every detail and fight tooth and nail it seems. Many ways to get some Ag relief, fruits, trees (nut). timber, but most have some kind of livestock.

Plus you have to be under an ag exemption for 5 years prior to applying for the Wildlife exemption iirc

Cattle is just to easy and for a large rancher, they usually go some kind of live stock, even if they have say a pecan orchard.

Nailed it. Cattle can pay the mortgage, but dont bet on doing it for more than a year straight.

Why the old saying farming and ranching is a great business. ..as long as it isnt your primary income.

It is accurate as far as the context I meant it, but you are right, there are many ways to get some sort of ag exemption. I merely pointed out the main one most use, one that involves something to do with livestock. Those are much easier to get approved. The abuses got so bad they have taken some steps to make qualifying harder, like the farm exemptions now have stipulations, just having one horse is near impossible to get approved. Wildlife exemption would be my choice, but as Redchevy pointed out, comes with some "bars" you have to hurdle on a yearly basis.

If you already own the herd.

Sorry, I've been at the ranch playin cowboy, this reply is on iPhone, if I haven't answered your question ask again and sorry for the choppy reply. We sheared 1450 goats 2 weeks ago, trying to finish up with about 1200 more Monday. It's harder to make money the smaller you are. I'm a 6th generation rancher on this land. Yes, you could not do it at today's land prices. When I graduated college and my dad offered me I job I went to the bank, took out a loan, and bought 300 goats. I've grown it to what it is today. I get grazing rights in exchange for labor. Nothing fishy, she raised me from the time I was 3 years old. She divorced my dad when I was 15, asked me for help on her place a few months ago, I'm 32. . I've obliged and still don't have a single unit on her place. Don't forget to add NAP payments and the recent drought payments, they paid 3-4 months of feed costs for every animal unit for the past 3 years. We've made it work and I hope to keep it going.Property tax, inheritance tax etc. there's lots to keep you up at night. And guys that make way more than me running someone else's business. We get by and make it work. We're still at it so we must be doing something right. If you don't like my goats that make way more money than your hunting, fence Em out or leave. I can show you pics of deer to prove running goats and deer is a none issue. Now I gotta get up at 530 to go chase more goats on horseback. Living the dream, 100%

It looked to me like he was selling hunts. Drive to his camp one night and there were over 10 vehicles in camp.

good point, ya I'm not factoring in loss or finance cost.

Property owners can obviously do what they want with their land. However, if you're leasing for hunting and want top dollar, then you must realize that goats and deer hunting are not conducive to each other. Cows and hunting don't interfere with each other much. I think land owners and lessors can find a happy medium if everyone keeps a cool head and communicates. When one starts making hardline choices without consideration of the other, feelings are going to get hurt. And that works in both directions. Sounds like the hunters were a bit disrespectful and demanding. Oh well, you'll find someone else if your so inclined. Good luck.

Goats and deer work perfectly together. I have goats AND hunting on this ranch. It's not a problem. If we can do it in this 14,000 acre ranch, our ranch in Sonora and our place in Ozona, I don't know how it can't be done next door. You have gained whatever knowledge you have on goats and deer running together somewhere, I can't vouch for that, whether through experience or a course or opinion. I've gained mine doing it my entire life and for the last few generations. And every expert from TAMU experiment station, 7 miles down the road would agree. Next time there's a talk on it I'll invite you down if you'd like. I'm talking about proper management, not over grazing.

I'm very interested in this management practice if you can produce a mature healthy buck harvest on a consistent basis. I would speculate you would need a lot of sections to rotate to, but what I know of goats is you'd have to have really good cross fencing to have that work . My experiences I've had with goats and deer have always turned into negative deer hunting experiences.

Everyone has their oppion of what is right and what is wrong. Let them make their choice. If the leave then someone else will pick it up.

We have good inside fences but have two bad fences on our south neighbors, they don't want to pay for fence. All of our feeders are fenced to keep stock out. We are MLD so we do several night surveys and harvest what is recommended. We try to manage what is harvested but some hunters and guides have different ideas on what is a trophy. We rotate pastures where we can and when we need to. We currently are pastured heavy on really brushy country but will move to better kidding pastures when we put billies out.

Those are very nice pics CaveManRancher. Makes me want to just sit down and soak it all in. Pretty green too.