I am in the research phase on what will be my first gun dog sometime in the next year or so. Have yet to decide on a breed, or a trainer but I would like to know how important the "pick" of a litter is. I see several breeders give preference on litter pick according to the order of deposits received. What do you look for in the pick of the litter?

THX

Big Ol John,
Before I picked my first gun dog I read a couple books. One was "Best Way To Train Your Gun Dog" by Delmar Smith. Excellent book and he covers what to look for in a pup. Critical info. Most people just pick a dog at random...not really the best route. Another book was "Wing and Shot" by Wehle. This guy uses a completely different training style but he's reknowned in dog-training circles. There are many good training books. Pick one from a well known trainer, read it and be prepared when it's time to get your pup. I guarantee it's worth the effort.

Go with a reputible breeder and pedigree. Then close your eyes and pick... Better yet let your breeder pick...

Puppies change so much from day to day,,, there is no test, system or method that will predict what you are going to end up with in the end as far as your puppy goes...

IMHO.....

Angie

Reeltexan and Angie, thanks, that is the kind of stuff I need to know. Have been reading alot and talking to several people. I am not going to rush this process.

Angie....had already checked out your website!!

John

Pick the ugly one
They always hunt harder and are smarter!
Seen it more than once!

Best Pointer I ever owned was the runt of the litter out of some top of the line dogs.

It doesn't cost anymore to feed a good one or a pretty one. Getting pick of the litter allows you to throw the best looking pups out in the yard and look for traits your intested in, first pick is never a bad thing...........

First pick is nice but, what you do after the pick is a lot more important. Get the pup out in the field for the first year and let it run. Then, get down to business and put in some serious training time.

I personally do not put much faith in pedigree or titles. Papers are important, along with health approvals (hips, eyes, etc,) but how you raise and train them is most improtant. Breeders and trainers will take your money and sell you a pup with a pedigree a mile long and show you a bunch of titles and ribbons, but when your pup does not retrieve like you expect it to they will either offer to train it for you (for a fee) or nicely explain that there is no guarantee about the dog retrieving for you. My advice is find numerous litters available, go look at the parents, watch them work for the owner. Keep an eye on their place, is it clean, organized, kids around (family environment), lots of room to run? Then come back and look at the pups when they are finally moving around, pick the one that catches YOUR eye, by her/his actions, look, etc. Take it home and use what you have read and watched to train your own dog how you want it to be. Anyone can go pay a bunch of money to have someone else train a dog, you can do it if you commit yourself to it and will have the satisfaction that you did it and a BOND with the dog that connot be replaced. JMO and trainers please do not hammer me for my opinion.

I would read Richard Wolter's book, "Water Dog". He believes that "timing" is more important than "pick"...that you should remove a pup from the litter at exactly 49 days old because pecking order (litter dominance) begins on the 50th day and some non-desirable personalities can develop as a result.

The only other thing you might consider is to pick a puppy from a repeat breeding. If you are dealing with a reputable breeder who also hunts and runs dogs in trials, letting them pick a puppy works for me. Most of the time they only repeat a breeding that has produced good dogs in the past. It's not a guarantee but it can't hurt.

I can't emphasize strongly enough what has already been said "What YOU do after the pick is a lot more important". Poor training and/or lack of training can and will ruin the very best breeding. Several of the elite bird dog trainers offer "Train the Trainer" seminars, along with books and DVD's there is a lot of good information available to help us amature trainers. Get the puppy out early and often. It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Straight up is absolutly right, if your buying a pup out of a first breeding, no matter what the lines, your hopeing they will turn out to be dogs. But a second breeding with good pups on the ground is the only way to put the odds on your side. And first pick is the ticket.........

good advice from straight up and chet. especially repeat breeding.

I won't even look at pups if their parents are not proven in the field.

Do you know how many great producing bitches there are that were never in the field??

Know your pedigrees, know your breeder....

Angie

I bought my Bullet for my wife's birthday 5 years ago. I did not buy him to hunt he was just for her birthday. Her birthday is Just before Christmas and really a bad time to try and find a pup when your in a hurry. I called everyone and nobody had any left. The last person I called was an add in the paper (that is in no way how I would choose to buy a pup). I gave the pup to her and she fell in love of course and asked if I would obedience train the dog. Long story short, Bull turned out to be the best dog I have ever had or ever hope to have. He was the last pick of a litter and is now a good looking, burn up a field dog. He didn't take to my wife so I had to get her another one. But that goes to show you, you just don't know. He was the runt but turned out to be the best pup from that litter.

There is alot that goes into picking a puppy, it does start with pedigree and the performance of the parents and grandparents. The next important thing, is what the pups have been exposed too. Buying a pup in the winter versus the spring, is the pups are exposed to alot more in spring simply because it is warmer. The human factor also comes into play, how the pups where socialized. The next thing you want to consider is, you personal plans with the dog and what level of training you want to endure the pup. Most hunters want the simpliest form of training, if that so than any dog will do, if you want the dog to achieve a higher form of training and be good at it, than paying attention to the bloodlines becomes even more important. Also looks for lines that are proven in your area. Such as dogs that have their lines traced to this area ( Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and New Mexico) do better in this dryer conditions finding game. The price you pay for a pup is the least of the concern but just because you pay alot doesn't mean you are going to get a better pup.

Last but not least, go look at the pups, talk to breeder/trainer and understand what you are getting. Try to get a top pick versus the last pick, their is a clear difference between the top puppy and the last puppy.

Adrian

Thanks to all that have replied, great advice for sure. I am taking my time and doing research before I take the plunge, as there have been too many decisions in my life I have made on the fly

Interesting... My FC and the only one in the litter,,, was a runt, almost died and was last pick....

My QAA,MH and Pheasant Scramble champion was given to me by my Tri-tronics dealer at the time... Left over,,, runt.

My first lab was QAA, MH, Master National qualifier, gun dog bar none. Last, leftover dog. Got him at 4 months. Great pedigree. Also lived until 16 years of age. Went to work everyday with us in the field. The standard all my other dogs need to live up to...

Pick,,, Pick what? Other then the pedigree and breeder....

IMHO...

Angie

So you're saying that there are no certain attributes or characteristics that you look for when picking a pup? You just go with the litter and breeder?

Angie, what about the 49 day observation?

Yup!!

Angie

Nether here nor there.... It was originally based on some antiquated time line in regards to vaccinating. It had little to do with actual developemental maturity... From a research standpoint ,,, 6 weeks or 8 weeks is better... As far as sending the puppy home to it's new environment...

Angie

I have 2 females in my kennel right now that were the last dogs in their litters. Both have HRCH/SH titles and are ready for master tests.

I have a test that I do for general soundness but you can not predict ability at that age.