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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
#5152012
06/11/14 05:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211
Atlas
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211 |
I have a suppressed 300 Blackout bolt gun. The gun was bought from another forum member and was rebarreled/chambered to 300 AAC blackout. It is a savage with 16 inch barrel, seems to stabilize all the bullets weights I have put into it.
Love the gun, super quiet and perfect for my set up. Taking hogs at about 60 yards with subsonic ammo headshots.
Given the lack of ammo availability and price, I'm reloading for it. I started with supersonic loads over a 208 grain hornandy A-max. With H110 and mixed brass, I got groups down to about 0.75 inches off a bench vs. factory UMC ammo of 1.3inch groups at 100 yards
Subsonic is giving me headaches! UMC factory loads started with groups over 3 inches. I was able with the 208 grn A-max over H110 to get it down to 1.5 inch groups. But it is not consistent! I went back to the range a month later and had a flyer in almost every group. I also experimented with 220 grain sierra matchking with also bad results?
Any advice from folks who have loaded this before. Could it be my rifle? Or do I need to get super details to get these groups down and start sorting my brass and other measures?
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152219
06/11/14 01:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960
ChadTRG42
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960 |
What is your twist rate on the barrel, and what type of rifling is used (traditional or ratchet (R))? Do you know how fast you are pushing the 208?
Also, H110 is a pretty slow burning powder for a bolt gun.
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152227
06/11/14 01:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,756
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,756 |
I would suggest buying some of Chad's sub loads to test..
both of his loads are very accurate in my 11" 300 BO barrel
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152477
06/11/14 03:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211
Atlas
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211 |
The 208 spread is between 950 to 990fps. I don't know the twist or rifling type because of how I acquired the rifle (used and the forum member did not know). I thought h110 was THE powder to use for sub's.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152491
06/11/14 03:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,574
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,574 |
I usually like to clean between different loadings, maybe that will help you.
I would definitely sort the brass.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152511
06/11/14 03:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960
ChadTRG42
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960 |
H110 should work, but it's not the best powder for a bolt gun. You need a faster burning powder for best results in a bolt gun. Most shooters are loading it for a semi-auto AR-15, and need the cycling. H110 is to fast burning for peak pressure at the gas port in normal 16" carbine length systems, and doesn't cycle that well. H110 should work decent in a bolt gun, but is not the best option. This is why I have a sub bolt gun specific load.
You may need to speed up the round some to help with the 208 and 220 groups and stability, if it can shoot it. If the twist is R rifling, which is "ratchet" rifling, then it may not stabilize the 208 or 220 very well. You will need a 1:8" with traditional rifling, and a 1:7" for R rifling for this to work. If it is a 1:8" R rifling, then this may be the problem. I have seen many barrels for sale that do not have the proper twist or rifling to shoot the standard 208 and 220 bullets at subsonic speeds. The next option is to go to a shorter bullet (i.e.- lighter bullet). Bullet stability is based on bullet length, not the weight. So a flat base bullet with a short ogive to tip length will be best. I like the Sierra 180 grain Pro Hunter and Game King bullets. I have had customers send me pictures of 1/2" groups at 100 yards with these subs. They shoot very well out of both my bolt guns. They will work with a 1:10" and up to a 1:12" twist as a sub sonic round.
Subs are a reduced load, and are an inefficient round. They need a lot of twist with the right powders to work well. I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of R&D with the 300 blk out. It is a finicky round for the subs.
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5152822
06/11/14 08:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294
oldoak2000
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294 |
Faster powders; other have had great success with Red Dot & Unique (& some like TrailBoss with lighter bullets).
Will be quieter as well.
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5153299
06/12/14 01:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211
Atlas
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 211 |
Chad, your reply is do information rich, I had to read it 3 times to absorb! 
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5153371
06/12/14 02:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523 |
I have NO interest in this type of round, but if I did and I was experiencing this problem I think I would try to load up to about 1100 fps and see if the stability improves. Spin that bullet just a little faster and it may work for you.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Kqs020H.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: RiverRider]
#5158436
06/16/14 02:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294
oldoak2000
Extreme Tracker
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I have NO interest in this type of round, but if I did and I was experiencing this problem I think I would try to load up to about 1100 fps and see if the stability improves. Spin that bullet just a little faster and it may work for you. That speed is too close to the subsonic barrier and would likely result in an occasional C R A C K from supersonic speed - blowing the whole reason for using sub-sonics & a can. OP's issues can be easily solved by using the right (fast) powders for this very-specific application - furthermore, the one right (fast) powder for his specific setup will be even quieter than the slow-burn powder now being used (faster burn = more impulse up front (quieter) & more complete powder burn prior to muzzle exit (accuracy).
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5159395
06/17/14 12:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523 |
I have NO interest in this type of round, but if I did and I was experiencing this problem I think I would try to load up to about 1100 fps and see if the stability improves. Spin that bullet just a little faster and it may work for you. That speed is too close to the subsonic barrier and would likely result in an occasional C R A C K from supersonic speed - blowing the whole reason for using sub-sonics & a can. OP's issues can be easily solved by using the right (fast) powders for this very-specific application - furthermore, the one right (fast) powder for his specific setup will be even quieter than the slow-burn powder now being used (faster burn = more impulse up front (quieter) & more complete powder burn prior to muzzle exit (accuracy). You are correct in that the powder choice is wrong. To run H110 at at 950 fps would require pressures that are extremely low for such a powder, probably around 12,000 psi or thereabouts. H110 will not perform consistently at such a low pressure, so YES, the powder choice is all wrong. Still, it should not be difficult to come up with a load that remains subsonic reliably and I would expect a guy who knows what subsonic is all about to realize that there is a window to remain within. The point is, there is room to crank up those loads for the most velocity that you can get while remaining reliably subsonic. Higher velocity > higher rpm > better stability > potentially improved accuracy (if lack of stability is the cause of the problems or a part of it). And yeah, using a powder that gives the right velocity at a healthy charge for healthy pressures will improve the burn and consistency. This result from QuickLOAD might be helpful. I'd just be careful about some of these powders that might not really like operating at pressures as high as these. They're not all the same in that regard.
Cartridge : .300 AAC Blackout (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 208, Hornady A-MAX 30712
Useable Case Capaci: 17.075 grain H2O = 1.109 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Muzzle Velocity: 1100 fps or 335 m/s
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N320 62.5 5.8 0.37 1100 100.0 42189 1336 1.534
Vihtavuori N340 57.4 6.0 0.39 1100 100.0 33519 1413 1.592
Accurate Solo 1250 63.4 6.0 0.39 1100 100.0 37818 1365 1.557
Vihtavuori N330 57.6 5.9 0.38 1100 100.0 37539 1375 1.567
IMR TrailBoss 143.0 7.6 0.49 1100 100.0 47117 1284 1.508 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 96.6 7.6 0.49 1100 100.0 49699 1266 1.498 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.2 54.7 5.7 0.37 1100 100.0 32527 1434 1.616
Ramshot Zip 46.0 6.1 0.39 1100 100.0 37964 1381 1.562
Hodgdon HP38 46.1 6.1 0.39 1100 100.0 38635 1374 1.556
Hodgdon TiteGroup 46.8 6.0 0.39 1100 100.0 42742 1349 1.530
Norma R1 76.1 6.1 0.39 1100 100.0 45948 1343 1.518
Vihtavuori N310 61.3 5.6 0.36 1100 100.0 48664 1300 1.497 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Silhouette 45.5 6.2 0.40 1100 100.0 30627 1469 1.615
Winchester WAP 45.5 6.2 0.40 1100 100.0 30443 1472 1.616
Hodgdon Clays 75.8 5.7 0.37 1100 100.0 48281 1330 1.496 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1000 66.5 5.8 0.38 1100 100.0 41285 1367 1.555
Alliant GREEN DOT 65.2 5.7 0.37 1100 100.0 39883 1385 1.572
Accurate Nitro 100 64.4 5.3 0.34 1100 100.0 39283 1409 1.576
Alliant RED DOT 69.9 5.5 0.36 1100 100.0 42245 1377 1.541
Alliant BULLSEYE 49.4 5.2 0.33 1100 100.0 31159 1491 1.620
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Frustrated 300 blackout reloading
[Re: Atlas]
#5159643
06/17/14 03:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 987
westexhunt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 987 |
I load AA1680 under 208 A-Max in bolt and AR blackouts with a can. Have to load different loads to keep just under subsonic between my SBR AR and my 16.25" bolt gun. I run them up to around 1040fps but temp and humidity have an effect on speed of course. Only use H110 under 110gr and 125gr supersonic loads.
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