My guess is field trials. What are your thoughts, experience?

Neither of them produce but they sure separate the wheat from the chaff.

Would depend on what you are wanting your dog to do, and what you consider a "Good Dog"

Depends what your looking for. Sometimes Field trial dogs can be too hot for the average handler to deal with. Either can make excellent hunting dogs. It's all about what you want/expect.

Personally, I like a stud dog like FC Howdy, he has titles from every venue. Whatever game he played he excelled. A well rounded stud dog paired with a nicely bred female should produce nice dogs is my opinion.

So the answer is both. But in pedigrees I like to see at least FCs and AFCs up close and perhaps MH sire or dam, QAA.

I think it's field trials without a doubt.

Thats what I was thinking and the reason because of competition. How does the bar get raised in a hunt test? It is the same standard that does not change.

Some FT dogs can't run Hts well or hunt well vice versa

In my opinion, hunt tests demonstrate the level of train ability in a dog while field trials demonstrate a dogs ability to find birds and then demonstrate train ability. Field trial allows/forces the dog to use his brain to win. If you have the money, time and persistence, a well-bred dog will eventually go as far as his owner wants to go.

I've not seen a FT dog that wouldn't hunt, but I have seen some SH/MH hunt test dogs I didn't want to hunt with.

Different strokes, it's all fun to be with dogs and friends.

No show dog love?

My personal opinion is it has to be a good combination of the right genetics to produce what you are looking for as a owner. Some people like fire breathing dragons at the line or in the blind some people like a very level headed but methodical marker and a alot like a generous balance of the two. All of these types of breedings happen each year and can also be some of the best bred dogs most will see. So to say HT OR FT lines are better than either one is not really even a question because each have positive and negative points.

This is always a hot topic but there are a few things that we should remember here. It takes a special kind of dog to compete at the highest level in ANY of these venues. If you think that any dog is going to make it to the MH level just because the test is "non-competitive" then you're sadly mistaken.

The second thing is that dogs, hunt tests, and field trials have come a long way. This is a good thing as it is a testament to the breed(s) and what has been done for them over the years. In the early days of field trials an open might have looked a lot like todays MH test. But, as dogs have gotten better, and more are competing, FT have had to get harder and harder, (same with HT BTW) in order to separate the truly outstanding.

In the end they are dogs. An FC/AFC will still break when the teal come buzzing in on the first hunt of the season. An HRCH/MH will still drop a bird at your feet and run back out for the double while you are calling at group working above you. But, they have all gotten better and that's the important thing.

Personally (in pointers)I think hunt test dogs need FC thrown in the bloodlines. If you always breed medium range dogs, to medium range dogs your going to shorten their range overtime. Just as all FC bred litters do not always produce big enough running pups, the same happens with HT bred dogs ranges.
If your plans are FT, then I would look for bloodlines full of FT dogs.
If its your personal hunting dog, a good mix of both would probably suit you. This is just my personal thoughts.

You see more FT washouts going to Hunt test/hunting homes than you do the opposite.

4th series of the open last week was a triple with a long retired island bird lasered at 527 yds, @ 400 yard swim and 2 entries. The wind was 15+mph cross from north. How many hunt test/hunting dogs have the desire to do this mark?

Robby

Yes birdhunter, it's that and what kindall mentioned that I like the field trails and what they are producing.

Come now, don't be silly. Any successful FT dog can smash a HT with ease. Might have to modify the training for a short period of time so it understands the nuance and doesn't blow through the short set ups but lets not kid ourselves that a dog successfully competing in FT can't do a HT.

When will a hunting dog see a 500 yard mark? And many HT dogs have the desire and talent to run that kind of mark. Most HT dogs come from field trial lines.

Field trials don't produce dogs, breeders do. I've seen many dogs that run both.

Ok I like breeders who are producing field trail dogs. How's that?

I've seen FT dogs that couldn't hunt and/or run hunt tests. It's really not that big of a stretch or uncommon. It is more common the other way but it happens both. Throw in an SRS event and then you have issues all the way around.

That actually makes sense. It's a pretty silly question considering how most dogs running at a high level in hunt test come from field trial lines.

And like shotgun has said last years SRS 4x4 team medley event which included a field trial set up, a hunt test set up, a hunting set up and a judges choice was won by a pair of hunt test dogs. Many of the field trial dogs had a hard time once the white coats were gone.

But it all comes down to what the buyer is looking for. Field trials are a rich mans game and the distances involved are not even close to realistic when it comes to a hunting dog.

don't get ahead of yourself. most FT dogs have poor control and line manners. many are very loose in the mouth work. and in HT line manners will get you a big fat fail.

What produces a better dog is a dog whose pedigree is known for working well together creating a repeatable dog that appeals to a certain market.

I breed fire breathers regardless of their looks though structure and soundness is important. I also breed companion gun dogs that look like a labrador should according to the AKC standard.

Knowing pedigree's and how they work together is more important then titles to me.

Angie

And you know this how? You've run and /or judged enough field trials to make this judgement? Or is this more hearsay? Angie did the basics on at least 2 dogs who accomplished their FC titles, and they both have no line manner problems. The fact is that there are many FC AFC titled dogs who also have their MH title. There was also a MH dog who won a national the last time it was held in St Louis.

Robby

I have dogs that run all three - FT, HT (both AKC & UKC) and SRS. One is an FC X FC and the other two are FC X no titles. Two of the three have been successful at all the games (the third hasn't run UKC or SRS but will this year). I agree with Angie in that it's all about putting the right sire and dam together. This is the same argument as Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. It's very subjective based on personal opinion and experiences. And if you wanted to take the discussion one step further, you can add handlers. I've seen good dogs do poorly because of a bad handler and I've soon good handlers carry subpar dogs. I'm not even gonna get into the number of FC dogs that don't or haven't produced worthy offspring (another subjective discussion).

As for the comment regarding field trial dogs and line manners/mouth problems, I've seen it enough to know there's validity to that statement.