My post has generated good discussion and I hoped it would. Time to move on and recognize that while game warden tactics might sometimes appear aggressive, theirs is a unique job where you must face armed individuals on a daily basis. And likewise, citizens are right in wanting to always be treated fairly and without prejudice.

I have heard rumor about some will stop by and do a meet and greet of landowners who own good hunting property that they've seen aren't always around. Some score free places to hunt bc the LO may tell them they can hunt it if they think they'll help keep an eye on the place.

Your stance seems pretty clear to me

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and frisks him or her without probable cause to arrest

This case concerns "patting/ frisking" someone down for weapons.

Also if you practice law you would/should know that the police can stop and talk to anyone. If that person does not wish to talk then they can walk away or refuse to answer questions.If it is on their property then they can ask the LEO to leave.

Still waiting to see what right was violated.

Funny, I am still waiting to see how he was authorized under Texas law to do what was done as there was no reasonable belief that Dan, working on a tractor, was involved in hunting activities and no evidence of hunting activity was in evidence at the time.

Ive never been checked while hunting. Only time ive ever even had my tag checked was by a garden ridge cop that pulled me over for speeding on the way home. He said I see you have a deer do you have a license and is it tagged. I said yes and he let us go, never even checked to verify just asked if I had.

Last year the game warden checked us 4 times and checked our license each and every time. This year he has been out twice, but has yet to ask for our license.

Consensual encounters do not require reasonable suspicion or probable cause as long as a reasonable person would feel free to leave or decline to speak with the police.

I agree this post has hit the ditch.

So how do you guys interpret this from the Parks and Wildlife Code:


Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray.

Interpreted as they can come on a property if they're on duty (I'd prefer they announce their presence so I know what's going on before shooting anything), but I've never known fish/deer to make use of a tractor barn or trailer, so no need to knock on those if not invited.

Just to lighten the subject, before leaving, the officer asked me about my trailer (it's relatively new) and how many people it would hold. He said he was interested in getting one for his own family. Wanting to be courteous, I invited him to open the door and take a look inside, which he did.

Perhaps it was his personal interest in my trailer that was the true reason behind his stop.

Dan, you're right. This horse has been beat down. You sound like a nice feller and have been very cordial in your posts. I bet the GW is as well. I'm sure he was just making a routine stop at a known hunting camp and once he found no one at the trailer, he saw you at the tractor and during the discussion learned a deer had been killed. Probably asked when, to see if it was this year and not last year. Why would he ask for a license? Maybe to see if it was current, or maybe the right one, maybe to see if a tag was missing and which one? Mule deer, turkey or red drum tag accidentally put on that whitetail? Has that ever happened to anyone before? Maybe to see if the WD log was filled out or even if the license was endorsed, yet minor. If he discovered a problem, he may have just told you to correct it... some hunters in our group still don't know about the WD log. He didn't ask for a DL or ID so he wasn't overbearing.
Let's change the scenario just slightly. After visiting with you, he learns that you have hunted and killed a deer this year, but does not ask to see a license, some would then suggest that he is incompetent, inexperienced or not thoroughly doing his job.
Lets say that once he found no one at the trailer, yet he saw you standing by the tractor (not hunting) ,but did not make contact with you, then some will say he is rude, uppity and "in a hurry". Sometimes a "no win" situation for an Officer trying to do his job. Tongues go to waggin and he is portrayed in a negative light. No wonder some guys at my camp "bristle up" when the GW pays a visit. Again Dan, you seemed very courteous and him as well.

Well put Ned.

1. I do love me some berries. Black berries are my favorite.

2. He checked him and then asked about hunting. He had NO reason to check him.

3. I have NEVER had a bad experience with a Warden.

4. I love to eat. Good luck to you if you try to take my lunch money.

5. And I dont like crying it makes my mascara run.

My first post was only a joke at you making a leap from trophies to Wardens, but after reading this post I am now certain!!! You are TRIPPING

Agreed. And civil discussions like this one allow people to vent their feelings so they can become more understanding of one another.

was that a bad post?

Life is going to be rough for you if you can't just swallow your pride, agree you broke the law, pay your fine and learn from your mistake.

In the grand scheme of things its a meaning less ticket. Everyone has a bad leo story, and I have a few myself. But those LEO's good and bad are still ones most likely to help you out in a bind and may save your life. Respect just in actions will help you out way more then resentment

Im going to bow out of the argument side. The original trophy post was in reference to someone else crying about everything.

If I took your post wrong I apologize.

But if I wanted your lunch money i would get it hhaha

Did I mention how much I love to eat.

And I dont think everyone deserves a trophy either. There needs to be winners and losers.

"Reasonable Suspicion" and "Probable cause" aren't the same, "Reasonable suspicion" has a lower bar and can/will set up "probable cause".

Texas Parks and Wildlife Code (12.102)

INSPECTION AUTHORITY: A game warden who observes a person engaged in an activity governed by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Code or reasonably believes that a person is or has been engaged in such an activity may inspect:
any license, permit, tag, or other document issued by the department and required by the Texas Parks and Wildife Code of a person hunting or catching wildlife resources;

Section 12.103
Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection."

Looks like the GW was there in a Legaly.

I concur with Savage 388,
"The U.S. Supreme Court has specifically endorsed officers walking up to people with no suspicion whatsoever and asking potentially incriminating questions. Just remember that the consent must be voluntary." Brian Surber, Deputy General Counsel, OBN

We have the 4th amendment, but then you have tons of "case law", such as the "Terry stop" or "stop and frisk". In the capacity of a GW and the "nature of their business", I can see where the "terry law" could apply, but not needed in this incident.

I dont see where any rights where violated??, the GW made a field contact. When you get a hunting license or similarly, a drivers license, you agree to the conditions that come with it. since they weren't issued when the constitution was passed, I'd think "case law" would predominate.

I doubt if push came to shove, an attorney wouldn't get "near this" as a "rights violation".

If I was the prosecutor (I'm not ) I would close with this.

"You're Honor, ladies and gentleman of the jury, We have read the Defendants statement and I submit to you, if the GW was handed the defendants hunting license, had it in his had, would it not be obvious (assuming it was properly filled out, with a tag missing) to the GW that the defendant HAD been hunting in the state of Texas. Or does it make more sense that the GW introduced himself, ask the defendant if he had "any luck this year", upon the reply of "yes", the GW asked to see the defendants hunting license?"

That is how it would be written in the GW statement I guarantee you.

if you aren"t doing anything wrong then whats the problem ? I would welcome any GW on our place and like to know they are there making sure things in my part of the county are going good
I have only been checked twice in my life and both times it lead to about a 30 to 45 min talking about other things some hunting but mostly just BS and any contact with the law is what you make out of it.

I don't carry my hunting license when I'm not hunting.

Problem solved...

I actually had left my wallet in my trailer and had to get it to show the officer my license.

I got checked opening weekend of dove season last year & I wasn't hunting. There was over a hundred people there eating and shooting skeet. I was running a skeet thrower and had about 8 or 10 folks lined up with shotguns blasting away. The Wardens stopped in front, stretched the fence & walked right up to me (no one else) and asked to see my license. I said, "Um, OK I'm not hunting but here you go sir". I thought it was strange that he checked the only person without a gun in his hands. but oh well, not the first time I have been profiled probably because of the tattoo on my arm.