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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: dee]
#4717780
11/04/13 01:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604 |
Stick with a quality soft point bullet. AMax are target loads, regardless of the load behind it.
165 Sierra Game King are my favorite, but hard to find right now. Federal's basic 150 gr soft point boattail is very good too.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4717806
11/04/13 01:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,763
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,763 |
1st off, Hornady says the A-max is also a medium game bullet. I posted proof of that before. 2nd, SGK's were my first choice of bullet but my gun doesn't shoot 165gr SGK worth a crap. This was 1 of Chad's reloads so FPS out of my gun is about 2,620fps. Deer may have been only 15yds away so bullet was really shaggin' @ impact. It may have clipped the heart but the left lung came pouring out in jello form when I skinned him so I know it was liquified. My intentions were for a broadside lung shot but it didn't play out like I planned. I'd of shot him in the neck but my scope was still on x16 because he was looking right @ me all the way from the feeder & I couldn't get it turned down w/out him noticing, I tried. After he turned broadside he started trotting off so I shot him on the move & didn't feel I could be precise enough for a neck shot w/scope on x16 w/him trotting @ only 20yds. I had to pic a spot I thought would anchor him AND not gut shoot him which was difficult w/how hard he was quartered towards me. It made it thru the shoulder and several ribs into the chest cavity but were only talking maybe 4" deep. So is A-Max only good if NO bone is hit? If you would of had your scope turned down and hit him in the shoulder/neck crease he would of dropped. Regardless of internet stories the only way to drop a deer right there is to break his spine. Regardless of bullet construction a 168gr bullet is a big bullet for a texas weighttail, deer is dead and only went a short distance. I wouldn't loose faith in it yet. If you want passtrus you need to switch to a bonded bullet.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#4717824
11/04/13 01:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,156
Phantom
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,156 |
There are a whole lot of bullets that will do that at close range. depending on the velocities. I have seen it with the ballistic silver tips, the accubond, and most match grade bullets. still to the point the bullet did not fail. The deer is dead which means it delivered all of its energy into the deer. That is not a bad thing. just sucks if you have to trail it.
Good is the enemy of Great
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Phantom]
#4717857
11/04/13 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950 |
60 yards can be a long way at dusk in a wooded area with no blood trail.
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Phantom]
#4717861
11/04/13 01:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 348
Nighteagle
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 348 |
I don't understand. U shot the deer w an amax an killed it. Sounds like a dead deer to me. Amax is a very versatile round and will kill as well as travel true out to 700-800 yrds (168 gr). No its not a game king but game king doesn't have the ballistic coefficient amax has.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Nighteagle]
#4718052
11/04/13 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 128
Apogee
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 128 |
A-MAX is designed to shoot targets not game. It has a very thin jacket. Like using a hammer to drive screws, you can get them in (A-MAX can kill), but it's not the purpose that the tool was designed for. Pretty much any 150 grain hunting bullet would be a better choice for your 100 yard feeder shot.
Last edited by Apogee; 11/04/13 03:32 PM.
James Madison: “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Nighteagle]
#4718127
11/04/13 02:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,985
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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It sounds like to me that the bullet did fine. If a deer is quartering to you, and you hit it in the front shoulder, you impacted a lot of bone. This will deform and deflect most any lead bullet. When you get this deflection/movement, the bullet will come apart. It's turning about 200,000 rpm, and this rpm forces the bullet apart (same as an FMJ). Also, when an animal is quartering to you, you can easily double the length you would need for an exit wound. I shot a deer with a 300 Win Mag at about the same angle and the bullet didn't exit.
I've taken several deer and many pigs with the 155 A-max with an AR-10. I got several exits, but most dropped in their tracks. If I didn't get an exit but the critter dropped, was it bullet failure? I've debated the same thing with the Berger VLD's. The VLD's come apart and fragment dramatically. You will get about 12 to 20" of penetration, but the area the bullet makes contact with is total destruction. It sends bullet fragments in all directions. I shot a broadside doe at 90 yards with a 140 VLD out of a 260 Rem in the shoulder, and pulled jacket and lead fragments out of the rear hams. She dropped. So, the bullet did it's job. But for hunting and recovering the meat, I didn't like the damage and carnage it caused since I take all the meat I can. I lost some meat. So, the bullet did it's job. But from a hunting stand point, I didn't like the end result because of the meat loss. But the VLD is one of the most effective bullets for terminal performance. I think the same for the A-max. If you have good shot placement, then any A-max will work fine. I say this with great confidence from my own personal experiences, as well as my customers' experience. If you want more penetration, go to a heavier bullet, and less speed. This will give you more penetration. This is why I like the 208 A-max out of the 300 Win Mag (or similar).
I had a customer shooting a 30-378 Weatherby pushing a 208 A-max at 3200+ fps. He shot a black bear facing him at a little over 100 yards. The 208 went in the front of his chest, and the bullet was recovered under the skin in the back of the rear ham. The bullet went clean through the entire length of the bear from front to back. The bear went a very short distance. I'd say the bullet did a great job.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#4718167
11/04/13 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,904
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,904 |
This game shooting with match bullets is interesting, for sure, but the question remains as to why you would elect to use a match bullet for a job it wasn't designed to do. Is it being used because it's extremely accurate? If so, just how accurate do you need to be inside of 300 or 400 yards? Pretty much any good actual hunting bullet will have all the accuracy you need. It's not like any of us are going to shoot a 5 shot group in the side of a whitetail. And, consider that a real hunting bullet just might give you a bit more room for error if you don't place the bullet in just the right spot. If you do place the bullet in the wrong spot, you absolutely want a bullet exit and a blood trail.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4718170
11/04/13 03:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,137
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 32,137 |
distance may have played a factor. the A-max is not a hunting bullet for starters.
that combined with the distance you shot it at made the bullet come apart.
a ballistic tip bullet would probably yield the same results at that range.
stop using the A-max and use a reg. hunting bullet and you'll be fine.
I am not a fan of the TSX, they don't expand good at .308 velocities unless you go light and then if you don't hit bone expect a long tracking job.
:BS: Run em light for caliber and do your part and no issue. I said go light for caliber. but if you go out and lung shoot a deer with a 150 grain TSX in a .308 your not going to be impressed
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Apogee]
#4718303
11/04/13 03:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 348
Nighteagle
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 348 |
A-MAX is designed to shoot targets not game. It has a very thin jacket. Like using a hammer to drive screws, you can get them in (A-MAX can kill), but it's not the purpose that the tool was designed for. Pretty much any 150 grain hunting bullet would be a better choice for your 100 yard feeder shot. i disagree...amax is designed as a duel purpose bullet. are "hunting bullets" going to do more damage, probably, however dead is dead...
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Nighteagle]
#4718566
11/04/13 05:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
southern_fowler
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
A-MAX is designed to shoot targets not game. It has a very thin jacket. Like using a hammer to drive screws, you can get them in (A-MAX can kill), but it's not the purpose that the tool was designed for. Pretty much any 150 grain hunting bullet would be a better choice for your 100 yard feeder shot. i disagree...amax is designed as a duel purpose bullet. are "hunting bullets" going to do more damage, probably, however dead is dead... Where does the link below say anything about duel purpose, or match grade Hunting, and dead is not worth jack Sh@t without you being able to find your game. http://www.hornady.com/store/A-MAX
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Nighteagle]
#4718575
11/04/13 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788
hermano W
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788 |
I've had similar results with Hornady SST's. They hit bone, explode into pieces, and make mush out of the animal's vitals, with little or no exit.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: southern_fowler]
#4718692
11/04/13 05:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
A-MAX is designed to shoot targets not game. It has a very thin jacket. Like using a hammer to drive screws, you can get them in (A-MAX can kill), but it's not the purpose that the tool was designed for. Pretty much any 150 grain hunting bullet would be a better choice for your 100 yard feeder shot. i disagree...amax is designed as a duel purpose bullet. are "hunting bullets" going to do more damage, probably, however dead is dead... Where does the link below say anything about duel purpose, or match grade Hunting, and dead is not worth jack Sh@t without you being able to find your game. http://www.hornady.com/store/A-MAX If you want you can search my name and a-max. You'll find the proof that they're dual bullets. It's in their reloading book, 6th edition I believe. They changed their making process or something.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: hermano W]
#4718723
11/04/13 05:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585
RKHarm24
sergeant
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sergeant
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585 |
Not trolling here but it comes down to Ford, Chevy & Dodge. If you had not located the deer because it ran off you may have figured bad shot placement or bullet performance. You found the Deer and the bullet. Dead Deer fragmented bullet. Call Hornady and talk to a bullet tech. May never happen again or every time.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4718729
11/04/13 05:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
Tsx or ttsx no more issues Iv had issues with the exact opposite happening with tsx in that size bullet... but still love the rounds and that was only rare occasions
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Navasot]
#4718734
11/04/13 05:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,032 |
I rarely stray from Barnes when looking for hunting ammo... but i buy a lot of corelokt ammo
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4718800
11/04/13 06:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
southern_fowler
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
A-MAX is designed to shoot targets not game. It has a very thin jacket. Like using a hammer to drive screws, you can get them in (A-MAX can kill), but it's not the purpose that the tool was designed for. Pretty much any 150 grain hunting bullet would be a better choice for your 100 yard feeder shot. i disagree...amax is designed as a duel purpose bullet. are "hunting bullets" going to do more damage, probably, however dead is dead... Where does the link below say anything about duel purpose, or match grade Hunting, and dead is not worth jack Sh@t without you being able to find your game. http://www.hornady.com/store/A-MAX If you want you can search my name and a-max. You'll find the proof that they're dual bullets. It's in their reloading book, 6th edition I believe. They changed their making process or something. Why would I want to search your name we are talking about bullets. That link is from hornady's site today. Just because they changed their marketing doesn't mean the bullet is a hunting bullet, That's like ford saying that the focus was a race car now, if they didn't change the performance of the car then its still a grocery getter.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: southern_fowler]
#4719014
11/04/13 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,189
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,189 |
Some of y'all need to stop reading so much actually try some things to find out for yourself. 168 hornady TAP is good stuff
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4719219
11/04/13 08:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902 |
The gun is a .308 SPS Tactical w/20" bbl. Bullet was handloaded 168gr A-Max. I had a decent 10pt @ my feeder 100yds. away. I got my crosshairs on him. He jumped out of the pen & trotted straight towards me ending up about 20yds away. Then he stopped, turned 1/4ing towards me & I shot. Bullet went in front left shoulder. His front left shoulder & first few left ribs were way broke & lungs were mush. Now this is what I don't understand. The entry hole was the size of the bullet (not surprised) but the bullet only made it to the left lung. It exploded on the entry shoulder & just bullet frags made it to the entry side lung. No exit, not even close. Not a single drop of blood anywhere. He ran about 60yds & piled up. Even where he died there was only a few drops of blood & they came out of his mouth. Did this happen because he was so close? I had no intentions of shooting a deer @ 20yds but that's the only shot he gave me! I have been told by several people not to hunt w/A-Max & been told by other not to worry & it works great. Now I'm not so sure I should have but am thinking it only happened because the distance was so short. If he'd of ran any other directions I might not have found him due to how thick it is & there was absolutely not a single drop of blood. Yes, Hornady says they can be used for hunting. Probably because a lot of guys find them very accurate, with a high BC, and want to use them in their long range rifles. And at long range, where velocity has fallen off, they probably work, when conditions are just right. IMO, your experience is exactly the reason the hunting bullets should be used for hunting and target bullets should be used for targets. Varmint bullets and target bullets can work very well on deer when conditions are right. When placed broadside thru the lungs, the can be great killers. But when a buck doesn't present you with the desired position (like your buck: closer range than expected, and only a shoulder shot option), a bullet designed with controlled expansion in mind, would have worked better.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: JJH]
#4719367
11/04/13 08:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
they're good for hunting at lower velocities....ramped up, use more caution than if you were using BTs. Can't always whistle down a deer and ask them to go stand out yonder at the 400yd mark. Use caution.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: rifleman]
#4719467
11/04/13 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,147
one73maro
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,147 |
Nosler Partitions for me. That's my final answer!
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: one73maro]
#4719825
11/04/13 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950 |
Nosler Partitions for me. That's my final answer! I like the Partitions and Speer Soft Point Boat Tails.
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Gravytrain]
#4719867
11/04/13 11:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 912
fishdog
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 912 |
you shot a deer.... it died. dont understand what your worried about. I have the sacred nosler partion fail on animals and cheep sp bullets shoot right thru huge tough animals they shouldnt. at the end of the day all that maters is that what you shot died.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: JJH]
#4720097
11/05/13 12:52 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578
Wburke2010
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578 |
But when a buck doesn't present you with the desired position (like your buck: closer range than expected, and only a shoulder shot option), a bullet designed with controlled expansion in mind, would have worked better. How would a hunting bullet have worked better. The deer was dead? Walter
MW Ranch Services 903-303-4523 Metal buildings, welding, equipment repair, dirt work
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Wburke2010]
#4720263
11/05/13 01:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902 |
But when a buck doesn't present you with the desired position (like your buck: closer range than expected, and only a shoulder shot option), a bullet designed with controlled expansion in mind, would have worked better. How would a hunting bullet have worked better. The deer was dead? Walter In several ways: 1) "exploded on entry shoulder": sounds like lots of unnecessary meat damage 2) "just bullet fragments made it to entry side lung": sounds like he was LUCKY that a few fragments reached a vital organ, or he could have left a wounded deer to die a lingering death. 3)"no blood trail" plus "if he had gone another direction, we might not have found him": again, the OP was lucky... You shouldn't have to be LUCKY to kill a deer at 20 yards! A good controlled expansion hunting bullet would likely have broken the onside shoulder, travelled thru the lungs, making soup of them, and exited out the opposite ribs, leaving a good blood trail. But the blood "trail" would be just a pool under the deer because the deer would have been dead right there. AND there would have been less meat damage. If the only criteria for success is a dead deer, a hand grenade would suffice, and at least he would not have had to hunt for it.
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