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Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? #4688337 10/24/13 08:42 PM
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Started on another thread. Thought we should make another one, so we aren't getting off topic.


Here's where we're at so far.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688340 10/24/13 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: adam_p
Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: dogcatcher
[quote=TXbowhunter1317]If they put a stand near or on your property line they are taking the risk of the deer running onto your property after being shot. You should tell them that if a deer runs onto your property, they cannot trespass.


Our GW would go get for us.

I've heard of a warden being told no by a landowner when he wanted access to retrieve a deer. At a buddy's lease not mine, but his neighbor is a widow that's an animal lover. He shot a doe she crossed the fence, so he went and asked the lady to retrieve it, got a rude NO. So he called the warden and was told, "all I can do is ask, like you did." Warden shows up and asked, the lady wanted to know if any laws were broken, warden said no, she then says then you have no business on my property.


My buddy was upset, but the warden explained without laws being broken, he couldn't cut a lock or jump a fence. That'd be trespassing, just like if anyone else did it. Glad it wasn't a dream buck. eek


back


She is welcome to think whatever she wants but the fact of the matter is if her property could possibly be home to any game animal then the GW has the legal right to access it without her permission.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688347 10/24/13 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop

Only if he he thinks people are hunting there or he believes laws are being broken. He cant enter without justification. Contrary to what people believe wardens can't just go around cutting locks or jumping fences without cause.

He knew no one hunted the place, she made it clear no one was allowed on her property to hunt or otherwise. His hands were tied, his words, not mine.

But all this is off topic and should be another thread. Lets get back to bulldozing blinds and burning down other people's deer feeders.

back

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688352 10/24/13 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: adam_p
Nope. But you're right, back on topic.

"Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection."
Retrieving your deer is neither one of those.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (d), the department may use information collected by an employee of the department on privately owned land only for the purposes of scientific investigations and research described in Subsection (a) and only if authorized in writing by the landowner or the landowner's agent. Unless the department first obtains the written consent of the landowner or the landowner's agent.

Even if we call dead deer "information" for scientific investigations and research that still don't work.

(e) The department is liable to a private landowner for a civil penalty in the amount of $1,000 for a violation of this section involving information collected by an employee of the department on the landowner's property. A landowner may bring suit to collect the penalty in the county in which the land is located or the county in which the landowner resides.

Like I said it was his words, not mine. I know he said he couldn't and didn't retrieve the deer. It be a good thread to debate on, we should start one....

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688353 10/24/13 08:47 PM
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Requires LO permission to retrieve game, GW will likely try to find the deer.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: rifleman] #4688362 10/24/13 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Requires LO permission to retrieve game, GW will likely try to find the deer.

That's where I was going with it. Requires permission to retrieve game. Criminal investigations no permission required.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688420 10/24/13 09:12 PM
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One more good reason not to whizz off your neighboring landowners.


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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: dogcatcher] #4688481 10/24/13 09:36 PM
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For the record, I said he could enter the property. You said he could not enter the property unless he suspected game laws where being broke. That isn't true. That was what my response was to. I never said he could drag the deer back although I think some of them would if they found it.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: JDShellnut] #4688527 10/24/13 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: adam_p
For the record, I said he could enter the property. You said he could not enter the property unless he suspected game laws where being broke. That isn't true. That was what my response was to. I never said he could drag the deer back although I think some of them would if they found it.


But your still wrong because he cant enter the property just because he wants to or wants to look around. He has to suspect something... like probable cause without a warrant. Looking for a downed deer does not meet that standard.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: redchevy] #4688535 10/24/13 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: adam_p
For the record, I said he could enter the property. You said he could not enter the property unless he suspected game laws where being broke. That isn't true. That was what my response was to. I never said he could drag the deer back although I think some of them would if they found it.


But your still wrong because he cant enter the property just because he wants to or wants to look around. He has to suspect something... like probable cause without a warrant. Looking for a downed deer does not meet that standard.


Yes he can. Read the laws.

"Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection."

It can't be spelled out any better than that.

Last edited by adam_p; 10/24/13 10:06 PM.
Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: JDShellnut] #4688539 10/24/13 10:06 PM
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popcorn


Think you can/Think you can't/Either way you're right

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: JDShellnut] #4688547 10/24/13 10:09 PM
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yea, thats what I always thought. That game belongs to the state of texas and a GW can go any where he wants with a warrant.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 10pointdoe] #4688554 10/24/13 10:13 PM
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He was not enforcing so he had no business entering without permission.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: don k] #4688560 10/24/13 10:16 PM
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There's a dead deer for him to check with someone admitting to shooting it. Could be an illegal deer....

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 10pointdoe] #4688563 10/24/13 10:16 PM
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[quote=10pointdoe]yea, thats what I always thought. That game belongs to the state of texas and a GW can go any where he wants with a warrant. Good luck getting a warrant to look for a wounded deer.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: don k] #4688588 10/24/13 10:24 PM
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Knew this would be a good one. stir


Also adam, I'm not calling you out, trying to be an arse or other wise. I just like a good debate. cheers

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688603 10/24/13 10:29 PM
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A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: grout-scout] #4688616 10/24/13 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem.

You saying he can just cut a lock and enter property unannounced to have a look around?

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: grout-scout] #4688646 10/24/13 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: grout-scout
A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem.
Nope. He has to follow the same laws as any other LEO. He must have reasonable suspicion of hunting or fishing (probable cause) to enter the property.

Last edited by fowlplayr; 10/24/13 10:42 PM.
Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688655 10/24/13 10:42 PM
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Here's an interesting question: Say I just spend $20k on roadwork on our place, looks perfect, then say at completion an unexpected 10" of rain falls and makes the rds a little damp. Say I decide to not even bother going up there until they dry to not completely mess them up so they'll last a few years...then the lock gets cut and a GW drives his truck all over them bc it's known deer live there. Should I be 12 different kinds of ticked or should I file a complaint?

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688659 10/24/13 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem.

You saying he can just cut a lock and enter property unannounced to have a look around?


Absolutely.

That very thing happened on a Brown County HF hunt I was on a few years ago. The GW, a guy infamous around Brownwood back then, cut the padlock on the gate and snuck up to the skinning shed. We were legal in every sense of the word. When the landowner suggested the GW simply call ahead, he replied, "If I sneak, I can catch ya!" The jerk never did, because the operation was first-rate and legal in every way.

I'm glad the guy finally retired. The new GW is more PC.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688678 10/24/13 10:50 PM
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[/quote] You saying he can just cut a lock and enter property unannounced to have a look around? [/quote]

Maybe not cut a lock, but I've had wardens park at the gate, hop the fence, and just walk into camp to check us out and say howdy. One hung around drinking coffee and BS-ing with us, the other was poking around in coolers, pickup beds, and such.


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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: dawaba] #4688679 10/24/13 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
Originally Posted By: 8pointdrop
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem.

You saying he can just cut a lock and enter property unannounced to have a look around?


Absolutely.

That very thing happened on a Brown County HF hunt I was on a few years ago. The GW, a guy infamous around Brownwood back then, cut the padlock on the gate and snuck up to the skinning shed. We were legal in every sense of the word. When the landowner suggested the GW simply call ahead, he replied, "If I sneak, I can catch ya!" The jerk never did, because the operation was first-rate and legal in every way.

I'm glad the guy finally retired. The new GW is more PC.
Totally different. He knew people were hunting and could possibly be breaking laws (probable cause) and justification for him to be there.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: dawaba] #4688680 10/24/13 10:50 PM
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Just because they do, that doesn't mean that they are legal to do so.

I don't know if they are allowed to do as they please. I'm just pointing out that one case does not set the rules.

Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission? [Re: 8pointdrop] #4688686 10/24/13 10:53 PM
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No person may pursue a wounded wildlife resource across a property line without the consent of landowner of the property where the wildlife resource has fled. Under the trespass provisions of the Penal Code, a person on a property without the permission of the landowner is subject to arrest.

this is on the tpwd website

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations/...ies-restitution

I think that's case closed

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