I shoot hogs and coyotes year round. No need to check them unless I start missing for no reason.

Old quote I heard in Nunavut from a Dogrib Dene Inuit:

One shot, good shot!
Two shots, maybe...
Three shots? Bye, bye, caribou!

Or I'm ticked off at a herd of pigs and the body count is adding up like in a chuck norris movie.

You misinterpret my intent. I've got absolutely nothing against new hunters and shooters who simply don't know, and agree we should help them to learn good habits at every turn. In the example you gave, that guy is actively trying to improve by shooting his rifle and attempting to zero. He is taking the responsibility to improve his skills. In the past 3 years I've taken 7 new hunters to get their first deer. Every one has gone to the range minimum 3 times before the hunt to get proficient with the rifle they will use. Every one of them understands proper shooting technique, and how to adjust their scope should zero change. Most importantly, they understand it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to be sure their rifle is accurate and that they are accurate with it.

My comment was directed at the so-called "experienced" hunters who simply don't take the time to a) check that their rifle is still accurately shooting to the intended point of impact, and b) that THEY can still shoot it well. The first time they pull the trigger in over a year shouldn't be when their aiming at a deer. These are the folks who probably haven't looked at a rifle since the year before.

Cool! Agreed!

Actually, the proverb goes:

One shot, one deer.
Two shots, maybe one deer.
Three shots, no deer.

Also sight in with ammo you are hunting with! Some ammo shoots as much as 6 inches different in my guns . Yesterday I was checking my sons 223 , I shot some hornady vmax and got it dead on at 100, so I had some Remington and some Winchester that I tested and the Remington shot few inches high and Winchester shot 6 inches high! There was only 5 grains difference in ammo. I was also using a sight vise and know it was ammo and nothing else. Went back to hornady and was grouping bullseye.
Before I went hunting with a gun that I haven't checked to make sure it's on,if no chance to shoot it before season. I would shoot it before daylight at my lease using bright lights at 50 yards. There's no excuse to not shoot your gun before hand imo....way to much time involved and money spent etc not to check the most important thing..... Good post!

Not certain I agree with big NO-NO about letting other person sight in my rifle. Unless that person has eye vision issues there should be no problem as long as I take the same pre-hunt shots that I normally take. It should never take over five shots maximum to sight in a rifle for normal hunting purposes.

weve all heard the Back in the day stories, heres mine. started shooting bb gun kid stuff, then dads .22 single shot pump 22shorts only, first rifle Kentucky .45, still one of my favorit rifles, up date ta started using scope. bought a .270 with scope for deer hunting, always took pride in my shooting. back whin using open sights, had bad expereance with .30-06 with scope, was seeing red. whin hunting firm believer in ethical shot. target, plinking, some times the memmorie of getting introduced to a scope flashes bye, some times its hard ta get scope just perfict. is it wrong if I let a person that dosent flinch, sight in so that I have confidence that at least the rifle is on?

or were the person shoots an comes back ta camp, an is asked, weres deer? an makes excuse for missing cause deer didnt fall over drt

Having someone else set up or sight in a rifle can save you a ton of time, effort, frustration, and money, if you don't have the place and experience doing it. The hold, eye position, rest, etc have little to do with the mechanical/physical aspects of sighting in a scoped rifle. With open sights, it makes much more difference.

That said, everyone needs to shoot their rifle or rifles prior to hunting with them in my opinion. We have good hunters from all over bring or ship rifles to us to set up and dial in for them, but we strongly encourage everyone to shoot them themselves either when they are picked up or when they are received by the owner.

Now, when a rifle is sighted in properly with a decent set-up, no one should be missing at 100-150 and blaming the equipment, no matter who sighted it in and who was hunting with it.

This is a copy and paste I wrote on another site about my last trip to the gun range.

Which is not really uncommon for me. I normally get a seat next to them and we chit chat about this and than. So I'm right there when guys and gals bring up rifles they are having issues with.
I got a real taste of what these guys go though with on a daily basis. More so when it gets closer to hunting season.
Let me start off by saying, I'm in no way talking down to these shooters. If I felt superior to them I would not be there helping,and I'm not making this thread to say how much more I knew than them.
Also, if the RO asks if you have your rifle sighted in, and if it's had any thing changed since then.. don't lie. At least 3-4 times when I go to the range they have to stop someone because they are not on paper at 100 yards.
First shooter next to me could not chamber his ammo. I was taking a break so I asked if they were reloads. They were not, it was factory ammo that he had shot before. He tired them a few more times and almost got the bolt closed. I'm glad he quit when he did. He had a patch stuck in the chamber.
Then RO's bore sight it at 50 yards, but it loses zero quickly. This was a .270 left hand savage with "see though" rings and a Barska scope. I look at the scope and the front ring is only 1/2 way on the 2 piece rail. So it's not seated in the groves either... Lucky for him they had some more 2 pc rails in a box and got him all set up. Now the scope does not have enough elevation to bring it below 6 inches high at 100. They result in shimming the base to make it work 1/2 [censored] just so the guy is not totally screwed.
Second guy has a Mini 14 that he installed a scope and wanted it boresighted., the parallax is front adjusting on the scope which is resting on the stock. He is not concerned and after it won't hold zero, he ignores the option of a different scope and or rings. Said... I'm sure it will hit a big at 100 yards.
3rd were just 3 very fresh shooters. Nothing special here, I just helped them all get zeroed, and explained a few things about the guys they had. One was a 770 w/ the scope combo. My lord that's the worst optic I've ever looked though. I did not want to bum him out, so I just got him zeroed and explained to him how his scope worked.
Long story short, don't 1/2 [censored] things. If it's not right, don't just leave it. Do a lil research on the things you buy, in the end it will pay off in saving you more money and time. Don't be afraid to ask for help, lot of friendly people out there, but then you also want to get the right help.
I think I'm going to do a video on just the very basics soon. It's hard to put it all in one video though. Every time I feel like I'm doing to much hand holding in a video I get questions about things I now feel like are common knowledge. I say "now feel" because of course I was a new shooter too.

One thing that cracks me up is the debate about letting other people sight in your rifle....

I see it every year, people at the range, who are not proficient, trying to sight in a rifle burning through boxes of ammo getting nowhere. Then getting so frustrated they cant stack 3rnds in any discernible group end up saying.... "well I can hit a pie plate so I'm good for hunting"

The goal of doing it yourself is the practice you get while shooting the gun. If you are a person who needs practice shooting, have someone proficient in shooting sight in your gun, then go practice with a sighted-in gun. When you get better at shooting, take the scope off your gun, twist off your turrets and go practice sighting-in your gun.

Sighted in, is sighted in.... the system is mechanical. It is either lined up or not. If its assemble correctly and sighted in, that's it. If the shooter can't hit his mark, its shooter error not mechanical error.

Sighting in ammo IS hunting ammo.... as previously stated.

happy hunting

What I really try to focus on most while practice shooting is clearly separating trigger pull and aim point in my mind. This may be more easily described as not wanting to jerk the trigger as the crosshairs pass over the target. To a youngster, it's like rubbing your belly and patting your head at the same time. When you have the two clearly separated in your mind, you realize it just as clearly.

we had hunters from out of state this past weekend and 4 out of 5 missed or wounded deer. Its super frustrating we double check rifles and they can shoot as long as they want. The average shot is around 75 yards. Its crazy.

did ya have them fire afee rouds at a target first

hmm, missing a post, didnt send. I sight in my scopes, point trying ta make, I flinch, from time to time, theirs more to shooting a rifle with scope than meets the eye if a person asks another to zero in a scope, its a start, at least sfope will be zeroed in, then let person shoot several shots, & help with tecneak if needed, my shooting is not as good as once was, I know My limitations an adgust to it.

We preach sighting in your own rifle in our Hunter Ed classes and am surprised at the number of guys I see every year missing because they either say they just bought the rifle and had it bore sighted when the scope was mounted.

The Family and I shoot at least once a month to ensure rifles are sighted to the shooter, and that we keep our skills up. My soon to be 10 year old daughter has shot her .22 enough that she can shoot the heads off thistles (she then tells all my buddies that she can out shoot me).

Congrates to your daughtet, no disrespect to your preachen, an I might be wrong for saying this. if a person had trouble zeroing in, dont see any thing wrong with helpen. if ya take one scope & rifle give it to a person who can drive tacs at 500yrds hes zeros it in, hands it to some one having trouble zeroing, at 100yrds thinking it might help. what would he the group size at 500yrds be if at 100yds its 4" heart lung shot is bigger than that.

Just went and made sure mine was still on today. I'm think I'm ready.

ya wanna zero in mine, on grouping

Kevin, I'm planning to go out one morning next week to tinker with a couple of new rifles to my safe. You want to sneak out and go with me?

Yeah, go figure. Its the American way I guess....instant gratification without having to work at it.

Now these same folks are going into the woods with crossbows and flinging arrows at everything that walks. I met a guy the other day that was hunting with field tips because he didn't know any better.


I wonder if these characters need their fishing reels re-spooled by "professionals".... haha

We shoot our rifles here in the U.S, practicing constantly. Generally speaking, we know what they will do, and at all practical ranges.

But, when I was in Africa this summer, my PH--who has guided 88 successful elephant hunts--filled me in:

American hunters are the best shots in the world....because they KNOW their guns and they practice often.

Europeans only shoot while on safari. Their guns are stored at a gun shop or hunting club. The armorer at the club bore-sights their rifle prior to the hunt, and the hunter leaves for Africa....having NEVER practiced!

My PH had an interesting observation (lest we Americans/Texans get the big head). When the PH tells the European to shoot that sable on the left....NOW!, the European gets on the shooting sticks and SHOOTS! When he says the same thing to an American, the guy first peers through his binocular to size up the trophy. Then he gets out his rangefinder and gets a reading. Then he gets on the sticks, but instead of shooting the sable, he starts fiddling with his scope turrets, mumbling "220yds....12 clicks up...or 14? Ok...where's the bull?" The PH replies, "The bloody bull is half-way to Botswana!!"

The PH had a dim view of all the gadgets we like to use. He says: leave the rangefinders, the adjustable turrets, and even the binos at home. Practice getting on the sticks and making a killing shot in less than 3 seconds.

Interesting stuff for us gimmick-minded types....

Amen to sighting in those rifles. Shot mine this last weekend. Pulled the first one out two shots dead on at 100. Put it back in the case. Next rifle put two shots 7 inches high and left. Took a few shots and dialing in. Last two shots dead on at 100. Guys, both guns were dead on last year. How the one got so far off is a mystery to me but just emphasizes why we need to shoot them in every year. If you assume your gun is on you may just be wasting a ton of money you have spent to harvest something. And worse yet, you may cripple a deer.