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Feb 7th, 2025
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 illegal gun?????
#463234
10/24/08 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,138
225proxs
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
Pro Tracker
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is'nt it illegal to own a rifle/shotgun with a barrel under 18". I seen a remminton over on the fishing forum and it had a 17" barrel. looks to be cut... If it's illegal I'd hate for him to advertise he has it and for someone to buy it.
wade gerig
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: 225proxs]
#463235
10/25/08 12:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Yes it is illegal. It is a felony if he is caught with one.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463236
10/25/08 12:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630
Turkeyteej
Tracker
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Tracker
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Chapter 46 of the Texas penal code covers this.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: Turkeyteej]
#463237
10/25/08 12:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 630
Turkeyteej
Tracker
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Not sure where you are getting your info helomech, but you might want to double check it.
Wikipedia entry on Short barrel rifles:
Short barreled rifle
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A short barreled rifle (SBR) is a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches (40.6 cm) and overall length of less than 26 inches (66.0 cm). Overall length is measured between the extreme ends of the gun, along a centerline which passes through the middle of the barrel. For rifles fitted with folding or telescoping stocks, measurement is made with the stock unfolded and/or fully extended. Barrel length is measured from the end of the muzzle to the front of the breechface, typically by inserting a measuring rod into the barrel. Barrel length may be partially comprised of a permanently-attached muzzle accessory (such as a compensator or flash suppressor).[1]
In the United States, an SBR is a BATFE regulated title II weapon and is legal for American civilians to own (State law should always be referenced), but only after the $200 transfer tax is paid and the BATFE form 4 is approved for transfer of an existing SBR, or the BATFE form 1 is approved for manufacture of a new SBR.
It should be noted that the addition of a shoulder stock of any type to a handgun with a barrel of less than 16 inches constitutes an SBR, and such a modification can only be performed by a class II manufacturer or an individual who has filed and had approved a BATFE form 1 for the manufacture of an NFA regulated weapon.
It is a Felony to posses an SBR or own the parts to manufacture (e.g. AR-15 lower receiver as well as an upper receiver with a barrel shorter than 16" that could be installed on it) an SBR without corresponding approved BATFE forms. An additional BATFE form is required to transport an SBR from state to state, whether it is being permanently relocated, or just transported to a rifle range for recreational purposes.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: 225proxs]
#463238
10/25/08 03:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 819
Cruz
Tracker
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Tracker
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I mighT be wrong but i recall that 16" is the limit for rifles and 18" is the limit for shotgun without proper NFA paperwork.
Was it a shotgun or rifle?
Some items that are possbily not legal do show up here from time to time(SKS with 30rd magazines) . You never know who is watching this site. IMO
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: Turkeyteej]
#463239
10/25/08 02:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Not sure where you are getting your info helomech, but you might want to double check it.
Wikipedia entry on Short barrel rifles:
Short barreled rifle
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A short barreled rifle (SBR) is a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches (40.6 cm) and overall length of less than 26 inches (66.0 cm). Overall length is measured between the extreme ends of the gun, along a centerline which passes through the middle of the barrel. For rifles fitted with folding or telescoping stocks, measurement is made with the stock unfolded and/or fully extended. Barrel length is measured from the end of the muzzle to the front of the breechface, typically by inserting a measuring rod into the barrel. Barrel length may be partially comprised of a permanently-attached muzzle accessory (such as a compensator or flash suppressor).[1]
In the United States, an SBR is a BATFE regulated title II weapon and is legal for American civilians to own (State law should always be referenced), but only after the $200 transfer tax is paid and the BATFE form 4 is approved for transfer of an existing SBR, or the BATFE form 1 is approved for manufacture of a new SBR.
It should be noted that the addition of a shoulder stock of any type to a handgun with a barrel of less than 16 inches constitutes an SBR, and such a modification can only be performed by a class II manufacturer or an individual who has filed and had approved a BATFE form 1 for the manufacture of an NFA regulated weapon.
It is a Felony to posses an SBR or own the parts to manufacture (e.g. AR-15 lower receiver as well as an upper receiver with a barrel shorter than 16" that could be installed on it) an SBR without corresponding approved BATFE forms. An additional BATFE form is required to transport an SBR from state to state, whether it is being permanently relocated, or just transported to a rifle range for recreational purposes.
Look at his post again. He said shotgun/rifle. I don't know which one so I said illegal. If it is a shotgun and 17" it is illegal. Unless it is registered and has the tax paid on it.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463240
10/25/08 03:27 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 160
Daniel1120
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 160 |
I thought it was 18" on a shotgun with a smoothbore barrel, but a rifled shotgun barrel was 16", same as a rifle.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: Daniel1120]
#463241
10/25/08 04:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 151
ALLAN
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 151 |
Fill out the forms, get the approval, get a signoff or do a Trust/LLC, pay the stupid 200 tax.
Nothing is illegal if you jump through enough hoops.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: Daniel1120]
#463242
10/25/08 05:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 957
robbf213
Tracker
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Tracker
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Quote:
I thought it was 18" on a shotgun with a smoothbore barrel, but a rifled shotgun barrel was 16", same as a rifle.
No, 18" for a shotgun
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: robbf213]
#463243
10/25/08 07:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought it was 18" on a shotgun with a smoothbore barrel, but a rifled shotgun barrel was 16", same as a rifle.
No, 18" for a shotgun
But remember a shotgun is a smoothbore. I posted in the other thread the info about it. If it has a rifled barrel it is not considered a shotgun, regardless of caliber or shot size.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463244
10/25/08 07:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 957
robbf213
Tracker
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You can buy a rifled barrel for a Remington shotgun 1100/870. It's still a shotgun and a felony if it's under 18" rifled or not. In the other thread you mentioned the Taurus and deringers, handguns that fire shotshells.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: robbf213]
#463245
10/25/08 08:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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I posted after that, but will post this here. This is from the NFA website. Notice in each one when it is referring to shot gun it says smooth bore. I have an idea what you were taught at academy, but this is the legal wording of the law. If you can show me other wise PLEASE do so.
If it is a smooth bore it is a shotgun, if it is rifled it is a rifle. If it is not design to be fired from the shoulder than it is a pistol.
A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (which is defined as a
shoulder fired, smooth bore firearm) with a barrel of less than 18"
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.
A short barreled rifle is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder
fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16",
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
rifle falling into the same length parameters (like a pistol made
from a rifle). In measuring barrel length you do it from the
closed breech to the muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure
overall length do so along, "the distance between the extreme ends
of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of
the bore." 27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget
type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both
rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be
manually reloaded (see discussion below).
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463246
10/25/08 11:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 957
robbf213
Tracker
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All that is good and fine. I know this from owning many NFA guns over the years. Call the ATF and ask them if a Remington 870 with a 17" rifled barrel is legal without being a SBS. It's not...
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: robbf213]
#463247
10/25/08 11:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
All that is good and fine. I know this from owning many NFA guns over the years. Call the ATF and ask them if a Remington 870 with a 17" rifled barrel is legal without being a SBS. It's not...
So then what part of the law differentiate's a remington rifle from a shotgun?
I am really not trying to argue, I know you are in law enforcement. But I have run into something very similar with some local sheriffs office. Every sherriff was wrong, and kept trying to harass me about it. I finally told them to either write me a ticket or get the hell out of my yard. I then went to the DA's office and got him to give me the law. Then I went to the sheriffs office and spoke to the sherriff and told him they had better not bother me about this again. If finally stopped. And yes it was a gun law.
Just because one or even two officers with the ATF tell you something doesn't mean they are right with the law. I am going to try to remember to call them Monday.
I know that you have run into wardens that where wrong about a law during your carrer. Right?
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463248
10/26/08 12:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585
RKHarm24
sergeant
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sergeant
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585 |
Texas Penal Code 46.01 (10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or a
shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun
or rifle if as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
There is no mention of a rifled barrel or smooth bore....
A Rem 870 with a rifled barrel can still fire a shotshell, still making it a shotgun, NOT a rifle
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: RKHarm24]
#463249
10/26/08 01:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Texas Penal Code 46.01 (10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or a
shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun
or rifle if as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
There is no mention of a rifled barrel or smooth bore....
A Rem 870 with a rifled barrel can still fire a shotshell, still making it a shotgun, NOT a rifle
In law you have to define each word, in this case you would have to define a shotgun. Every dictionary I have ever looked in defines a shotgun as a smoothbore. There fore there is no descrepancy in Texas law with the federal law. It is no different than a pistol shooting shot shell. The barrel of the pistol has to have rifling. Now do you want the kicker. The rifling doesn't even have to be spiral, it can be straight cuts, as long as there are grooves in the barre. I love learing about law, it is one of my favorite things to do.
That is what makes it a shotgun, having a smooth bore.
A shot gun is defined as
Shotgun \Shot"gun`\, n. A light, smooth-bored gun, often double-barreled, especially designed for firing small shot at short range, and killing small game.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
A rifle is defined as
A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder, with a barrel that has a helical groove or pattern of grooves ("rifling") cut into the barrel walls. ...
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: robbf213]
#463250
10/26/08 01:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
You can buy a rifled barrel for a Remington shotgun 1100/870. It's still a shotgun and a felony if it's under 18" rifled or not. In the other thread you mentioned the Taurus and deringers, handguns that fire shotshells.
So what happens with a NEF handi rifle, when I have a rifle barrel and a shot gun barrel. If I cut them both down to 16" on the rifle and 18" on the shotgun. Is the rifle now illegal? I don't think it is, and this is a direct anoalgy to your remington 870 example.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463251
10/26/08 02:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585
RKHarm24
sergeant
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sergeant
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585 |
I have not figured out where the Taurus Judge fits in yet?????  
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: RKHarm24]
#463252
10/26/08 02:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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It fits in because it is a pistol with a rifled barrel. That is the catch that allows it to be legal and shoot shotgun shells. The only reason I know any of this is because I wanted to know why it was legal to sell with the 18" shotgun barrel law. If it had a smooth barrel it would have to fit in the law of the shotgun, not a pistol.
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: helomech]
#463253
10/26/08 09:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,826
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,826 |
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: colt45-90]
#463254
10/26/08 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 819
Cruz
Tracker
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Tracker
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Quote:
I just got a headache
Thanks to the ATF and congress. 
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Re: illegal gun?????
[Re: Cruz]
#463255
10/29/08 02:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 80
TSH_Lance
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 80 |
laws are always open to interpretation... you just hope your interpretation is the one the judge uses!!!!
TSH_Lance
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