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 one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
#443741
10/03/08 06:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
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Woodsman
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I have a few questions to ask before i make my purchase this weekend. Before anybody goes on about the AR-15, I'm going to put a stop to that and say "they are out of my price range".... I went to Academy last night to buy a MINI-14/5R with the wood stock: http://tinyurl.com/3f8vu2$599 is the price. for 50 bucks more, i could get the stainless and synthetic stock model KMINI-14/5RP: http://tinyurl.com/4ferfei really like wood stocks instead of synthetic, but i believe I'm going to go for the synthetic in this gun because i think I'll abuse it more than my deer rifle... here's the main question. will those models accept the 10,20, and 30 round clips? the model numbers on them end in 5R and 5RP, which, according to the ruger website has a capacity of 5 rounds... the 20R and 20RP models on the ruger website say they have a capacity of 20 rounds... http://tinyurl.com/3s2c39that link to the ruger website shows a bunch of different mini-14's, but none that end in R and RP like they do on the Academy website... i just want to make sure the one i buy at Academy is going to take the larger clips. Also, there's a gun show this weekend, so I wanted to wait until after the show to buy it, just in case i find one (new) there. Any idea on what the going price is at gun shows for new mini's? The guy at Academy also told me that they do not fire the NATO round or whatever the older ones used to shoot in addition to the .223 round. Is this true? Thanks for any help. 
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443742
10/03/08 06:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,566
scot
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
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I believe you should have no problem with after market magazines, the only difference is it only comes with a 5 round.
the 5.56 debate is valid. I believe they are considered to be chambered in .223 only, some people run both in them just fine but I thought there is a mini-14 designed to run both. Not positive about that though.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: scot]
#443743
10/03/08 06:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
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Woodsman
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Quote:
I believe you should have no problem with after market magazines, the only difference is it only comes with a 5 round.
the 5.56 debate is valid. I believe they are considered to be chambered in .223 only, some people run both in them just fine but I thought there is a mini-14 designed to run both. Not positive about that though.
heh.... i figured that the "5" meant it wasn't capable of holding the 20 round clip because of some reason or another.... i thought about it just coming with the 5 or 20 round clip, but why would they create more stock #'s with such a miniscule part? is that for selling to different states?
the guy at Academy said the barrel is spun 9:1, and the 5.56 round needed a lower one or the bullet just tears up inside the barrel.....
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443744
10/03/08 06:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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There are a few but vital differences between the two rounds, 5.56mm NATO and the .223 Remington. The first and most important to your situation it that the NATO round produces about 50% more chamber pressure than the .223 Rem. This means shooting a 5.56 NATO in a .223 Rem gun could stress the chamber to the point of failure over time and blow the chamber apart and kill or injure. Another difference is the distance between the case and the lands of the barrel. This is another factor in the guns ability to deal with pressures.
The good news about all this is that I believe the Ruger Mini-14 will take both rounds. Double check this but I think they do.
Good Luck -Kelly
Edit:
The 9:1 twist is a standard twist rate for the NATO round. The bullet is not "torn up" as the Academy guy stated. A particular round may not like a 9:1 twist but perform better at a 7:1. The physics behind rifling and bullet performance says that a heavier bullet takes longer to get spinning and stabilized in flight than a lighter bullet and generally requires a slower rate of twist. Experiment with different brands and weights of ammo to find what your rifle likes best.
Last edited by KellyAsh; 10/03/08 06:53 PM.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443745
10/03/08 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 819
Cruz
Tracker
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Tracker
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How many 20-30rd magazines do you see yourself buying? I ask since imo only factory Ruger 20rd magazines seem to work and they are expensive. Ruger has at the moment a promotion were you can get a free 20rd magazine and are able to buy two 20rd mags for $30 each. Ruger as far as i know still will not sell 20rd mags to everyone and they go for $50. My point is any savings you might have from the mini might be enough for a AR which magazines are not as expensive.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: KellyAsh]
#443746
10/03/08 06:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
OP
Woodsman
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OP
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Quote:
There are a few but vital differences between the two rounds, 5.56mm NATO and the .223 Remington. The first and most important to your situation it that the NATO round produces about 50% more chamber pressure than the .223 Rem. This means shooting a 5.56 NATO in a .223 Rem gun could stress the chamber to the point of failure over time and blow the chamber apart and kill or injure. Another difference is the distance between the case and the lands of the barrel. This is another factor in the guns ability to deal with pressures.
The good news about all this is that I believe the Ruger Mini-14 will take both rounds. Double check this but I think they do.
Good Luck -Kelly
thanks... the only reason i was wondering about it was just in case i run out of .223 ammo during the revolution... 
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: Cruz]
#443747
10/03/08 06:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
OP
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Quote:
How many 20-30rd magazines do you see yourself buying? I ask since imo only factory Ruger 20rd magazines seem to work and they are expensive. Ruger has at the moment a promotion were you can get a free 20rd magazine and are able to buy two 20rd mags for $30 each. Ruger as far as i know still will not sell 20rd mags to everyone and they go for $50. My point is any savings you might have from the mini might be enough for a AR which magazines are not as expensive.
yeah, i saw the promotion on the website, and figured i'd take advantage of the sale and get 3 ~ 20 round clips... that should be all i need, maybe another 5 round clip or 2 later on.....
how many clips do people normally get?
do you know what the going rate is for bulk ammo at a gun show? Academy has .223 rounds at 20 for 5.29.... that's pretty cheap.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443748
10/03/08 06:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 37
reed
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 37 |
I have bought some stainless 20 round clips from an outfit out of Abilene called cdn investments for my mini 14. My mini 14 is stainless with woodstock. I will tell you that it is not a target rifle and you can expect to get a 4" group at 100 yards. I believe "American Rifleman" the NRA publication had a techical article on the .223 versus the metric round this summer and like kellyash said you can shoot .223 in 5.56 guns but not the other way around.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: reed]
#443749
10/03/08 07:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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Quote:
...I will tell you that it is not a target rifle and you can expect to get a 4" group at 100 yards. I believe "American Rifleman" the NRA publication had a techical article on the .223 versus the metric round this summer and like kellyash said you can shoot .223 in 5.56 guns but not the other way around.
Reed, I'm assuming you are shooting .223 Rem out of your Mini. If your rifle can take both rounds try the 5.56 NATO variety. The leade is longer when shooting a .223 Rem and will affect accuracy when fired from a rifle designed to handle the 5.56 NATO round. Who knows, that 4" gun might actually be a 2" gun?
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: KellyAsh]
#443750
10/03/08 07:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
OP
Woodsman
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236 |
Quote:
Quote:
...I will tell you that it is not a target rifle and you can expect to get a 4" group at 100 yards. I believe "American Rifleman" the NRA publication had a techical article on the .223 versus the metric round this summer and like kellyash said you can shoot .223 in 5.56 guns but not the other way around.
Reed, I'm assuming you are shooting .223 Rem out of your Mini. If your rifle can take both rounds try the 5.56 NATO variety. The leade is longer when shooting a .223 Rem and will affect accuracy when fired from a rifle designed to handle the 5.56 NATO round. Who knows, that 4" gun might actually be a 2" gun?
both the guys from Academy AND Sportsmans Warehouse both said that the new mini's they had do NOT shoot the NATO rounds..... that being said, i'd think the accuracy would be better in the newer rifles, using the .223 ammo of course.... are they wrong?
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443751
10/03/08 08:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 629
filly
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: filly]
#443752
10/03/08 08:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
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Quote:
SteveO, you have a PM.
huh... i don't see it in my inbox..........
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443753
10/03/08 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 629
filly
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: filly]
#443754
10/03/08 08:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 37
reed
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 37 |
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443755
10/03/08 10:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
Pro Tracker
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Quote:
....both the guys from Academy AND Sportsmans Warehouse both said that the new mini's they had do NOT shoot the NATO rounds..... that being said, i'd think the accuracy would be better in the newer rifles, using the .223 ammo of course.... are they wrong?
Ok, the deal is that Ruger makes a Ranch Model and a Target Model. The Ranch Model is truly chambered for the 5.56 NATO but they list the more popular .223 Rem. as the chambering for that rifle. I guess for marketing reasons. The Target Model can ONLY fire the .223 Rem round and NOT the 5.56 NATO.
Due to the barrel dimensions in the leade, (the area, just beyond the chamber area, where the actual bullet sits in relation to the lands of the rifling) the 5.56 NATO being a little longer than the .223 Rem. This creates a little gap for the .223 where the actual bullet should have a positive seat, as in the 5.56
Hope this helps explain it better.
-Kelly
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443756
10/03/08 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 819
Cruz
Tracker
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Well, it depends. For example I have more magazines for ak’s and ar’s that would ever be practical for one person to carry. I bought them thinking ahead of what silly/stupid law a future congress could pass. If you don’t see yourself buying more than the 2-3 magazines then the price issue would still favor the mini in your case. On the other hand if you were thinking of buy more than the 3 Mags at $50 per then the savings would go away considering ar mags are around $10. Just some thoughts. Nothing against people behind gun counter but they might not always know what up. Here, this is on Ruger’s site the manual that comes with the Mini-14 http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PDF/InstructionManuals/55.pdf Page 11 states it can fire both.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: Cruz]
#443757
10/03/08 10:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 460
Beman Deamon
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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Posts: 460 |
before you say that a AR-15 is out of the ?? you say you have 650-700 right? I paid 709 after tax fir this: DPMS ar-15 Low Pro Classic, 16" Bull 1x9 right hand twist, 2 30rd clips and a case. Bought the Nikon Prostaff for $170 later. its a 5.56 Nato/.223 so you have a WIDE range of ammo.  Its a Sweet gun.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: Cruz]
#443758
10/03/08 11:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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Hahaha...I just got back from Academy and their resident "gun guy" at the gun counter corrected me TWICE, telling me that the .223 and the 5.56 are EXACTLY the same round. Man, I was WAAAAYYYY off. Hahahaha. But seriously, what do you expect for $12/hr.
I guess the real lesson here is, places like Academy and Walmart are not places to go asking questions about seriosly dangerous hobbies like guns or hunting despite what they would have you believe. These people are SALESPEOPLE.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: KellyAsh]
#443759
10/04/08 12:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 191
WildEd
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 191 |
They are not the same round. Do your research. 
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: WildEd]
#443760
10/04/08 01:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
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Quote:
They are not the same round. Do your research.
Hahahahahaha! This is hilarious! Slow up there sparky and read the entire thread before posting a response. I fully realize they aren't the same round.
Take your own advice there and you do YOUR research!
I ain't mad at ya.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: SteveO]
#443761
10/04/08 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
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The cartridge dimensions are the same, it's the chamber size that makes the difference. Mini's made after 2003 should be OK to chamber both rounds. 5.56 brass is thicker, but loaded to higher pressures. If your rifle is a 1 to 9 twist or faster it's probably OK. This is the critical feature. You won't know without knowing the barrel twist. What's happened over the years with moving toward heavier bullets is a lengthening of the chamber throat. Still you might want to check with Ruger before buying. It's a very good reason to go ahead and fork out the extra bucks and buy an AR clone with a 1 to 7 twist, they will chamber both and it will have the twist rate on the barrel. After market mags in advertised in The Shotgun News are probably OK, but I'd check every one of them. With an AR you won't have to worry as much, and you won't have to worry at all if you use the Israeli Orlite mags.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: Sabrinavonbach]
#443762
10/04/08 11:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,618
pyledriver
Veteran Tracker
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It's not the twist, it's the 'leade'. At issue here is the jump from the case to the rifling. If you take a high pressure round and stuff it up against the rifling, it takes a huge pressure spike to get it moving. That's what can lead to some sort of failure-i.e. case head seperation or worse. The military 5.56 ammo is loaded to a higher pressure, and firearms designated as 5.56 have a longer leade than ones designated .223. This is much the same area as reloaders concentrate when working up the most accurate round for a rifle. The accuracy is not in building the round to factory specs and stuffing the case full of powder..but in working out the leade of YOUR rifle and then where the sweet spot is for accuracy first, then speed/pressure. Pressure can be low on a factory round vs. what the chamber can tolerate, but seat that bullet a little further towards the lands with the same powder and you could experience catastrophic failure. More info: http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=11BEST ADVICE: check with Ruger
"Providence protects children and idiots. I know because I have tested it" -Mark Twain
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: pyledriver]
#443763
10/04/08 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 935
Sabrinavonbach
Tracker
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Tracker
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I thought that's pretty much what I said by lengthening the chamber throat, but you've described it much more eloquently and correctly than I did. I agree completely about asking Ruger before buying because for practical purposes if the poster is worried about Armegeddon, the only ammo likely to be available is 5.56.
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: Beman Deamon]
#443764
10/06/08 02:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236
SteveO
OP
Woodsman
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OP
Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 236 |
Quote:
before you say that a AR-15 is out of the ?? you say you have 650-700 right? I paid 709 after tax fir this: DPMS ar-15 Low Pro Classic, 16" Bull 1x9 right hand twist, 2 30rd clips and a case. Bought the Nikon Prostaff for $170 later. its a 5.56 Nato/.223 so you have a WIDE range of ammo. Its a Sweet gun.
that looks nice! was it new?
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Re: one more Ruger Mini-14 post, before i buy one...
[Re: pyledriver]
#443765
10/06/08 06:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,666
KellyAsh
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Quote:
It's not the twist, it's the 'leade'. At issue here is the jump from the case to the rifling. If you take a high pressure round and stuff it up against the rifling, it takes a huge pressure spike to get it moving. That's what can lead to some sort of failure-i.e. case head seperation or worse. The military 5.56 ammo is loaded to a higher pressure, and firearms designated as 5.56 have a longer leade than ones designated .223. This is much the same area as reloaders concentrate when working up the most accurate round for a rifle. The accuracy is not in building the round to factory specs and stuffing the case full of powder..but in working out the leade of YOUR rifle and then where the sweet spot is for accuracy first, then speed/pressure. Pressure can be low on a factory round vs. what the chamber can tolerate, but seat that bullet a little further towards the lands with the same powder and you could experience catastrophic failure.
More info: http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=11
BEST ADVICE: check with Ruger
Well said, pyledriver!
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