Can't buy into the last sentence. You're just saying there was never a problem anyway and cams are the magic bullet causing people to let little bucks walk, not ARs? That contradicts what I have seen from both a macro and micro perspective. Yes, I see bigger bucks on my cams now-but I also see bigger bucks on the hoof now too. They are smart and elusive,yes, but not magicians. I manage to lay eyes on most of the bucks I have on camera at one time or another. I think you do too based on the pics you share but IDK....

Over and over and over again pre-ARs the lament was "I almost never see a mature buck." And "My neighbor shoots every basket rack he sees so I feel like I have to do the same." People were literally wanting TPWD to protect the young bucks from the outside-so that is just what they did.

In the pre AR meetings the "popular vote" was for ARs hands-down. I am convinced they would overwhelmingly win in a popular vote today-everywhere they are in place.

I'm actually getting the sense that the real problem with ARs many have is just the "I just don't want the government all up in my business."

I get that-but that's a whole 'nother subject and a philosophical debate rather than results-based.

I'm tard and about said all I know to say. I love everybody.

The year before AR's in Tyler County, I saw 15-20 deer regularly with probably 8 or 10 bucks, (4 mature)!!! The next year, 1st year as AR, I saw about 15!!! The second and third year of AR's, I saw 8 deer with 4 bucks, (2 mature but 12" to 12.5" spread), and I shot a spike the third year!!! In the fourth and fifth years of AR's I saw a total of 5 deer both years combined, (I shot a doe last year)!!! I saw these deer both in person AND game cam!!! AR's don't work everywhere!!!

That last sentence is easy to buy into bc the same folks who never saw any bucks, believed they didn't have any would usually be the same folks who complained about only seeing does and their fawns..<<<<<I'm a firm believer in the Immaculate Conception, but don't buy that it happens in the deer kingdom. I see most bucks I have on cam, but our property is set up to do such. That's the luxury of deer being comfortable on a pasture that's been there forever and their need to see what does are out there...and there being heavy competition for those available does. Some can manage to bypass all of that and show up on cam while I'm on stand...then there's the nocturnal ones that are as old as stxranchman. Now had I not bow hunted, there'd be 4 mature deer I never would have seen in person. And have a place I'm working on that was 288 acres that was hunted by 5 guys... Oddly enough the first year cam survey provided me with 5 bucks...(4yearlings..1 3yo)..despite being AR for a while. This past season cam survey showed 28 different bucks of various ages. Now did AR do that or a sudden change in mgmt philosophy?

All us anti AR hunters must be brown and down hunters cause TPW in there ultimate knowledge gave us 4 tags instead of one so they must love us! I feel so much better now that i know they love me. I always hear you guys say that it stops the young bucks from getting killed yet now the bag limit is TWICE what it was and alot if not most of the deer reaching 13in are two and a half year olds and the spikes are one and a half year olds! No way in heck does that math work in my head! IM NOT THE BRIGHTEST BULB IN THE BOX I GUESS.

I also forgot to add that like seadog i also saw several deer at each sitting and every year now i see fewer deer than the year before. I know some years are worse than others but 5 to 6yrs in a row? Not gonna buy it. TPW can lower the bag limit and acomplish the same goal and still get bigger bucks.

That won't make the "kids/old people need more opportunities" (woe be unto those kids/old people who live in a draw or 1 week season state I don't see how they survive ) or "I'm overrun with does so I need more doe tags" people very happy.

Everyone has a different solution based on what they see in their own area. The "answers" y'all each come up with for your own situation would tick off the other folks currently in the anti-AR camp just like ARs do now.

No solution can please everybody because there is no perfect solution....

You should really look back at what I wrote about the kids and seniors. My plan would cut out the extra yearling buck tag and take the doe tags from 2 to 1. That's helps with numbers taken and also helps kids and seniors. You just like to keep the pot stirred.

Any plan that re-opens the door to shooting goathead 4s,6s, and 8s will just mean less opportunity for everyone at nicer deer-kids/old folks included. Think about it: ARs are really no different than your plan except that those little bucks for the kids/old folks to shoot under your plan are now a little older and bigger. They are still there, they just are older.Really think about that.

Your plan also opens the door for grown folks to shoot the babies on kids/old folks' tags. ARs closed Pandora's box-no need to reopen it.

All ARs do is let young branch-antlered bucks get a little older. That's it. It really is that simple. The devastating effects attributed to ARs are ghosts. Not saying something is not going on because I believe what everyone is saying, but I'll never believe ARs are the reason. There are dozens of other things that could be reasons but it's just easier to blame ARs.

Did you know that when TP&W puts on a youth hunt on a WMA with antler restrictions they do not hold the kids to that restriction? I have taken my son on several and they say "we never hold kids to those rules". If the Biologists on the WMA's get it then why can't others?

I was originally not planning to jump back into this thread. I'm glad I did now. NP, I have tried to get you to do an actual debate on this with facts but you won't. I've asked you numerous questions on the subject and you ignore them and stir the pot more with second-hand information. I'm in this thing until the end now. Keep posting your second-hand information and theories and I'll keep posting FACTS based on actual EXPERIENCE hunting and living in this County. I have nothing better to do so bring it.


Here's another question for you to ignore...

If I get serious and decide I want to manage my deer herd under the MLD program what's the first thing that happens? A biologist comes to my property and evaluates the property, food sources, deer numbers, and buck to doe ratio. Why don't they just say well you're in Rusk County so here's 20 doe tags and 20 buck tags? Because blanket regulations do not work. They work for some in the County and destroy others.

A buddy of mine called me a few minutes ago and said "Hey, it's raining at the lease". I told him that was obviously impossible since I was also in Rusk County and it has not rained a drop.

Selfish, plain and simple. After 6 years of AR's the chances of anybody shooting a buck at all on my lease are 100 times worse than they were.

Why don't you name some of these "dozens of other reasons"? Go ahead, You can do it!

You want bucks to get older but you want yearling buck tags. You say once they reach 2 years old and are legal people will let the pass in hopes of a bigger one. If people were in to letting them go for a bigger on why do we even have ARs?

If the speed limit on a highway is 60 most people will drive around 60. Move the speed limit to 75 and most people will drive 75. Why? Because the state says we can.

I have answered every one of your arguments-many times with facts and sometimes with just logic. You just don't like my answers. Plus you answer my questions/arguments only by ignoring them or insults.

Since your imagination may need expanding here are 10 possible reasons your place (or any place) may go downhill that have nothing to do with ARs:

1)Drought;
2)Disease;
3)Poaching in the area;
4)Neighbors shooting more deer around you;
5)3 and/or 4 causing deer to go nocturnal;
6)Habitat change in the area;
7)Increased predation;
8)Change in farming practices in the area resulting in less available nutrition;
9)New HF place in the area restricting deer movement;
10)Nothing has changed deer wise but your perceptions have changed based on decreased sightings by you that could be the result of any number of reasons (weather, trickle-rut, etc., etc.)

I know you will immediately respond I am an idiot because I don't know squat about where you hunt and it is all ARs.

The answer is number 4 and the reason is ARs. Here's a question you skirted (one of many). How many deer on average do you now see while hunting in Rusk County?

That's all you can present by way of discussion: "You're not me, you're not here. So you can't know squat."

It's as if my own experiences, the the ability to converse with others, the internet, cell phone, and anyone else's brain besides your own simply don't exist.

Well....want 10 reasons why things could have improved on places that has nothing to do with AR?

Sorry, that's the wrong answer..Oh wait, you again didn't answer it.

The correct answer would have been... I do not currently hunt Rusk County nor have I hunted Rusk County since ARs were introduced so I don't have any first hand knowledge or experience about this subject. I don't know why I keep stirring the pot on a subject that I obviously don't know anything about except for what I read and texts I get from buddys.

That would have been a correct answer on your part and yet here you are, arguing how well they work here and that if my herd is down they are not to blame. Things that make ya go hmmmm

Hope your deer season goes better this year BowSlayer.

If there was a public voting poll in Rusk County regarding AR's would you be able to cast your vote?

I have a million questions so we'll just take them one at a time...lol

Thanks, hope you have a good one too.

The 100 acre neighbor around us gets pics of some decent deer. A cpl years ago around Christmas I talked to him at the gate separating our properties and he'd only seen 1 buck over 13" the entire year. Not but a cpl hours before, I watched 3 that would make it cross not 150yds from where we were talking...and that was pretty much an every morning occurrence.

Going to be sporadic with posting..realtors can't schedule showings worth a flip

Soooo.....how would folks feel about a slot limit. Deer must be between 10" & 18" to be shootable....? Works on fish, should work on deer.

Make it 8" to 20" and I'm in.

Make the 20"+ an OIL tag.

Did I mention I love AR's

Lol...your culling philosophy won't work too well.