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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #4246525 05/10/13 04:10 PM
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lol, thats what we're looking for!


Originally Posted By: cameron00
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Aggieivy] #4246533 05/10/13 04:14 PM
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With 97% of TX being private it infringes upon landowner rights since private individuals are the ones with the burden of taking care of "the people's" deer. If every landowner fenced their property, removed all deer and left them to fend for themselves on that 3% ppl would be crying saying those mean landowners are horrible ppl for causing the massive die off of deer. The almighty dollar will do more for them from a mgmt standpoint than a state mandated blanket one-size-doesn't-fit-all mgmt program ever will....,and look at how many people are complaining about the prices of leases and hunting in general.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #4246538 05/10/13 04:17 PM
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You say "if you don't like AR's then get on MLD". So which is the more effective managment tool? A blanket reg for everybody or allowing the property owner to manage the property as he sees fit? Also you say unless you are a first time hunter you shouldnt be worried about shooting bucks less than 13 inches and then in the same paragraph you say unless you're a meat hunter (nothing wrong with that). You do so much double talk in your statements that it's hard for me to take any of it seriously. If there is nothing wrong with meat hunting, which is what you said, then why is it wrong to shoot a young buck? I'll tell you why.... greed. It has nothing to do with herd health or management and everything to do with how large we can get the anltlers to grow so we can pound our chests and say look up above the mantle at the "trophy" I shot.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246548 05/10/13 04:20 PM
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Oh, and what about the ones that ARE first time hunters. Screw'em, we want big antlers I guess.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246550 05/10/13 04:20 PM
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"check"....<starts the timer>...............

Last edited by jshouse; 05/10/13 04:21 PM.

Originally Posted By: cameron00
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246662 05/10/13 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
You say "if you don't like AR's then get on MLD". So which is the more effective managment tool? A blanket reg for everybody or allowing the property owner to manage the property as he sees fit? Also you say unless you are a first time hunter you shouldnt be worried about shooting bucks less than 13 inches and then in the same paragraph you say unless you're a meat hunter (nothing wrong with that). You do so much double talk in your statements that it's hard for me to take any of it seriously. If there is nothing wrong with meat hunting, which is what you said, then why is it wrong to shoot a young buck? I'll tell you why.... greed. It has nothing to do with herd health or management and everything to do with how large we can get the anltlers to grow so we can pound our chests and say look up above the mantle at the "trophy" I shot.


*And this goes to your post immediately following as well.

If you don't care about the size of a buck, shoot a spike or doe--which are both legal under the regulations. There is an ongoing argument among biologists and managers whether spikes are "cull" bucks are not--but that is another thread.

Guess I hit a nerve. Like I said, hate all you want about trophy hunting. Human nature compels most folks work to improve in all they do--including working hard to best the last buck you (or your buddy) harvested. Remember, it's called hunting--which is a sport. It's not supposed to be easy and God forbid there be a little competition. Guess that's why it's bowSLAYER instead of hunter. No discrimination...if it flies it dies.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Aggieivy] #4246673 05/10/13 04:56 PM
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I read bowslayer as destoryer of bows..... just saying


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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Aggieivy] #4246676 05/10/13 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Aggieivy
Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
You say "if you don't like AR's then get on MLD". So which is the more effective managment tool? A blanket reg for everybody or allowing the property owner to manage the property as he sees fit? Also you say unless you are a first time hunter you shouldnt be worried about shooting bucks less than 13 inches and then in the same paragraph you say unless you're a meat hunter (nothing wrong with that). You do so much double talk in your statements that it's hard for me to take any of it seriously. If there is nothing wrong with meat hunting, which is what you said, then why is it wrong to shoot a young buck? I'll tell you why.... greed. It has nothing to do with herd health or management and everything to do with how large we can get the anltlers to grow so we can pound our chests and say look up above the mantle at the "trophy" I shot.


*And this goes to your post immediately following as well.

If you don't care about the size of a buck, shoot a spike or doe--which are both legal under the regulations. There is an ongoing argument among biologists and managers whether spikes are "cull" bucks are not--but that is another thread.

Guess I hit a nerve. Like I said, hate all you want about trophy hunting. Human nature compels most folks work to improve in all they do--including working hard to best the last buck you (or your buddy) harvested. Remember, it's called hunting--which is a sport. It's not supposed to be easy and God forbid there be a little competition. Guess that's why it's bowSLAYER instead of hunter. No discrimination...if it flies it dies.


Well, you're funny at least, I'll give you that. I didn't realized that people only hunted for Sport nowadays. Some people do still actually hunt for food but the hunt for sport only people don't want them to.

You're awesome AR's are just that. They are the best tool for managing the herd this state has ever seen. For example, in a County where during rifle season I was allowed 1 buck(of my choice) and zero does I can now shoot 2 bucks and both of them can be yearlings if I choose that and 2 does. Hey, makes perfect sense to me now, thanks for setting me straight. LOL

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #4246678 05/10/13 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
I read bowslayer as destoryer of bows..... just saying


You got that right! Deer don't even stop eating when I show up but bows tremble in fear. roflmao

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246683 05/10/13 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
I read bowslayer as destoryer of bows..... just saying


You got that right! Deer don't even stop eating when I show up but bows tremble in fear. roflmao


Lol.... I know the feeling..I had to buy a new bow last year 5 days before I left to hunt elk in CO last year


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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246690 05/10/13 05:03 PM
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And for the record... I do not hate trophy hunters, I just hate it when any group shoves regulations down others throats that obviously do more damage than good in the name of "management". I guess I just have a live and let live attitude about it. If you want to hunt only big antlered old deer then knock yourself out but don't make a law that says my 13 year old son has to do the same thing.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246695 05/10/13 05:05 PM
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Fwiw...if the hunting is so bad that regulations have to be enacted bc ppl have a problem seeing bucks and the goal is to increase the age structure in the bucks and narrow the sex ratio, then there is no such thing as a cull buck.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: rifleman] #4246739 05/10/13 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Fwiw...if the hunting is so bad that regulations have to be enacted bc ppl have a problem seeing bucks and the goal is to increase the age structure in the bucks and narrow the sex ratio, then there is no such thing as a cull buck.


IE-the spike tag


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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4246836 05/10/13 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
And for the record... I do not hate trophy hunters, I just hate it when any group shoves regulations down others throats that obviously do more damage than good in the name of "management". I guess I just have a live and let live attitude about it. If you want to hunt only big antlered old deer then knock yourself out but don't make a law that says my 13 year old son has to do the same thing.


Hey--no hard feelings here. Just a good old fashioned debate with some zingers. It wouldn't be any fun if there wasn't mud slinging. I haven't shattered a bow yet but know it's coming.

In all seriousness, I'm about as small government as they come and the fewer govt regs the better. If I never had antler restrictions before, I definitely wouldn't like feeling that big brother sitting in the blind with me. I guess I'm kind of like a pen-raised deer that doesn't know how good it is to be free because I've always hunted under restriction. Different strokes for different folks, right?

Hell, the first deer lease my dad let me hunt on alone as a kid fined people $1,500 bucks for shooting something outside their antler/age restrictions. Long story short, 13-year old me shed a lot of tears one night after some ground shrinkage and my dad made me take a video camera with me from then on. Lesson learned but nowadays I still shoot with a video camera first if I'm not totally positive and re-watch back at camp--if only to reassure myself.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: rifleman] #4249691 05/12/13 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Fwiw...if the hunting is so bad that regulations have to be enacted bc ppl have a problem seeing bucks and the goal is to increase the age structure in the bucks and narrow the sex ratio, then there is no such thing as a cull buck.


Bag limits would do the same thing!!!


I support Cap and Trade - Cap our spending and Trade Obama

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the Government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson
Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Seadog] #4250076 05/12/13 04:01 PM
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Did the aggie really refer to Martha stewart?

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Bull Sprigs] #4251329 05/13/13 11:31 AM
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Saw more bucks and does before AR bag limits were set and have had ar rules and bag limits for 6yrs now i believe. I would like to know were some of the guys on here went to school because i still cant figure out how you get more deer and bigger deer by letting hunters kill 4 deer instead of 1 like it was before ar rules. How can you get more and better bucks by killing twice as many? Not to mention killing 2 does legally were we couldnt take a doe unless you were a bowhunter. And last but not least i like the idea of growing bigger bucks but not at the expense of killing off the herd to try and get a better rack. And before any body spouts off about just because we have 4 tags doesnt mean you have to use em! well there are alot of people out there who will just because they can so why not lower the limit so we can ALL have biger bucks?


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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4251993 05/13/13 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
And for the record... I do not hate trophy hunters, I just hate it when any group shoves regulations down others throats that obviously do more damage than good in the name of "management". I guess I just have a live and let live attitude about it. If you want to hunt only big antlered old deer then knock yourself out but don't make a law that says my 13 year old son has to do the same thing.


That argument and the argument that they apparently do not work in a few unique counties are the only cogent arguments I have ever heard against ARs.

For the first, my response is that in the vast majority of the counties just wait a couple of years and that 13 year old can pick from some good bucks instead of having to shoot goatheads. (In the meantime he can shoot a doe or a spike).

As for the second, work to get them changed if they are hurting your county specifically. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by scrapping something that has improved the age structure of the herd in the majority of counties where they have been implemented.

ARs are just a simple tool that lets deer herds get a little age on their bucks before they are killed. They are working and accomplishing that goal in most places. They should stay put.

Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 05/13/13 05:50 PM.

Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #4252041 05/13/13 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: BowSlayer
And for the record... I do not hate trophy hunters, I just hate it when any group shoves regulations down others throats that obviously do more damage than good in the name of "management". I guess I just have a live and let live attitude about it. If you want to hunt only big antlered old deer then knock yourself out but don't make a law that says my 13 year old son has to do the same thing.


That argument and the argument that they apparently do not work in a few unique counties are the only cogent arguments I have ever heard against ARs.

For the first, my response is that in the vast majority of the counties just wait a couple of years and that 13 year old can pick from some good bucks instead of having to shoot goatheads. (In the meantime he can shoot a doe or a spike).

As for the second, work to get them changed if they are hurting your county specifically. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by scrapping something that has improved the age structure of the herd in the majority of counties where they have been implemented.

ARs are just a simple tool that lets deer herds get a little age on their bucks before they are killed. They are working and accomplishing that goal in most places. They should stay put.


How can you say they are helping the bucks to get age on them and then in the same breath say shoot a yearling instead. Makes no sense. Take a County that had a low deer density to start with from a 1 buck no doe County to a 2 buck 2 doe County makes about as much sense also. Also, you say wait a couple of years and they will have better bucks to shoot? Our bucks are dying of old age since AR's have been in place. When will it improve? It's been well over a couple of years now and it's only getting worse. It's already been stated that TP&W knows it's screwing up some places and they do not have the funding to change anything. What exactly would you have me to do in my County to improve anything?

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4252051 05/13/13 06:28 PM
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ARs have received an overwhelmingly positive response in most counties. I get that many say they are hurting in their counties (I am skeptical that is the case and would guess it is other factors but ARs get the blame but admit IDK).

If they are hurting your county I don't know how to fix that except to say try to work to get that changed.....sorry I can't do better.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #4252054 05/13/13 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
ARs have received an overwhelmingly positive response in most counties. I get that many say they are hurting in their counties (I am skeptical that is the case and would guess it is other factors but ARs get the blame but admit IDK).

If they are hurting your county I don't know how to fix that except to say try to work to get that changed.....sorry I can't do better.


Well at least you finally admitted that you don't know what's going on in my County so I consider that a small victory for the AR haters. cheers

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BowSlayer] #4252064 05/13/13 06:36 PM
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I will always admit IDK what IDK. smile If I am not familiar with your area I couldn't act like I am in all honesty.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #4252069 05/13/13 06:38 PM
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I'm not a fan of AR's based soley because I think management should be left to the landowner, if their wasn't an MLD option I would opposed completely to AR's

Also not a fan of the spike tag. Pretty much contradicts the age class improvement ideology.

I've passed bigger deer then I have killed and seldom use my buck tags so guess I fall under the trophyhunter mystic even though I usually tag out on does


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Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: BOBO the Clown] #4252095 05/13/13 06:52 PM
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Just think, ARs originated bc of MLD and a co-op of small landowners who didn't see eye-to-eye on management....yet felt compelled to try to control what the other landowners were doing.

Re: Another Year of Antler Restrictions.... [Re: rifleman] #4252195 05/13/13 07:32 PM
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No that's called creating good neighbors with tight tall fences


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