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Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
#4091567
03/01/13 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,350
aeb
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OP
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: aeb]
#4091599
03/01/13 01:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
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Posts: 60,296 |
Interesting read but I have question as in, is predation factored into any of the data? No mention of predation as a limiting factor. Also rainfall, wet vs dry years?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: stxranchman]
#4091633
03/01/13 01:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,350
aeb
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One of the faults of studies such as this is, by necessity, they must use such small samples. Good scientific research would require many replications and then you have all the other factors that you mention. Add to that the fact that they are studying pen raised/fed does and attempting to relate the information to deer in the wild. With that all said, a young heifer with her first calf often is a poor mother, my daughter’s little cat just had her first litter of kittens and she didn’t know squat about raising her new family, etc. This probably touches on where they got the idea for this project. At times I shake my head at some of these esoteric studies but this is a subject that I really wish I knew more about.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: aeb]
#4091645
03/01/13 02:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I believe the study areas are all 200 acre HF enclosures side by side with native deer from those areas. No introduced/non native deer. Habitat in each enclosure would be all about the same. I would have to agree with parts of this research. Though for the most part I would differ from what I have seen on ranches in different areas of the state. On those the fawn survival would be much different and much higher on all age classes of doe than what they are showing. This study is also for one particular area in one region of the state. Not sure how it would relate to other regions in the state at all.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: stxranchman]
#4091866
03/01/13 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,290
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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The study makes the art of harveting does look more like a crap shoot.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: BenBob]
#4092058
03/01/13 04:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 367
EastTexun
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 367 |
Lots of unanswered questtions there. I have been trying to shoot the old, barren does, but eventually I should run out of targets. What next?
Having said that, shot placement is key and there is only one level of dead. Us east Texans can't afford turquoise and elk ivories for jewelry. So we use hog tushes and coon peckers.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: EastTexun]
#4092467
03/01/13 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,258 |
This is what people have been saying for years and no one has been listening to right? Young does are not as successful as older does... shooting older does lowers recruitment... shooting younger does raises it.
It's not rocket science.
This is why people that shoot doe fawns have higher fawn crops.
This is why people do doe flips.
They finally have decided to test what people have already been practicing, and thank God they have because now the people that have been doing it can be "right".
It's like saying Columbus discovered America, even though people were already living there.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: AmoCuernos]
#4092732
03/01/13 09:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 91
Jay Brown
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
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The question is" Are you shooting does/anterless deer to reduce overall deer numbers, or are you removing does to balance the buck/doe ratio ? they are 2 different questions and 2 different solutions and any number of variables can influence your decision, including predation, drought, high fence/low fence and carrying capacity for the number of acres involved. Dr Jacobson at Miss ST. addressed this issue several years ago. One conclusion was that it would be difficult to determine a specific age class of does to remove, therefore a harvest of all age classes could be considered acceptable. It was also noted that the term "barren doe" for any adult age class would be difficult/immpossible to determine for all of the varibles listed above. There were several biologists attending that were in agreement that does of the 3 1/2 year age class and up appeared to have a better fawn survival rate than younger does. But at the time no large sample data was available to verify this. As a rule of thumb (which is not very good), we have always shot yearling does, and took our lumps when someone shot a button head by mistake.
Last edited by Jay Brown; 03/01/13 09:28 PM.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Jay Brown]
#4093186
03/02/13 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,685 |
Sounds great unless you are trying to improve genetics...In that case you would be wanting to shoot off the older age classes and theoretically with inferior genetics to the younger age classes.
I don't know too many ranches in Texas that complain about not having enough deer. Unless its a commercially hunted place where more bucks equals more bucks $$!
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: txbobcat]
#4093790
03/02/13 05:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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Place I hunt in south Tex theory they ask to shoot older does to improve genetics. They have to shoot a lot so I am sure all age classes get hit though.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Txduckman]
#4094662
03/02/13 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: aeb]
#4100973
03/05/13 03:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
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We simply aren't nearly that scientific about it, but generally try to harvest does without fawns.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Grosvenor]
#4101383
03/05/13 06:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,478
4Weight
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,478 |
We simply aren't nearly that scientific about it, but generally try to harvest does without fawns. Ditto here. I think that especially on small parcels like I hunt, you can over think this.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: 4Weight]
#4105296
03/07/13 02:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 543
Cannon
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 543 |
How does harvesting by age class improve genetics?
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Cannon]
#4106063
03/07/13 01:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 541
Chafro
Tracker
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Tracker
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Posts: 541 |
How does harvesting by age class improve genetics? Well if you been culling hard for a few years the older the doe the higher the chance they come from a cull genetic buck. But I wouldn't expect much results from doing this.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Chafro]
#4106131
03/07/13 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,290
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,290 |
We used to genetically test all of our does to see if they have the predisposition to produce yearling bucks that will score over 200. We have yet to find one, so we dropped the program and just use common sense. Coincidentally we have more time for hunting and spend less time testing. But, if you want the data, I can get it to you for the cost of a South Texas deer lease for me and my scientific-oriented buddies.
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: Cannon]
#4106285
03/07/13 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,358
jshouse
THF Trophy Hunter
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How does harvesting by age class improve genetics? "in theory," if u have been culling/managing your bucks for several years, resulting in a "better/bigger" buck herd, your younger does will have been born to and bred by a "better buck." therefore their genetics should be better than their mommas and their offsprings genetics should be better than theirs.... so, if u are taking older does you are "in theory" taking does that have been bred by "lesser" bucks. "in theory."
If I send my neighbors a text and ask them to give me feedback on my lawn and plant rye into a giant dong pattern, I'm probably going to get some less than positive feedback. Same goes here.
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Re: Kleberg Wildlife Institute paper on harvesting does
[Re: jshouse]
#4130102
03/19/13 03:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 97
Sled2live
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 97 |
That turns my theory upside down....I thought they all got better looking at closing time...for deer too. Just kidding
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