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Animal population
#4031712
02/07/13 08:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
RockR
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11 |
I have 100 HF acres with 20 wooded and 80 in coastal and 3 decent tanks plus a catch area that holds water most of the year. I have 30 pecan trees that had a decent year in 2012 and some acorns in the woods. 6feeders are going off twice a day plus I feed 100 pounds of alfalfa and 250 Mr Buck and protein. My concern is I have 35 axis, 20 whitetail and 15 blackbuck and my wooded area seems to be thinning with all the rubs and animal travel. I am going to cut back on the Backbuck, mainly females now so no real loss. I had poor baby survival rate last year because of the drought but this year should be better so I expect about 15-20 babies from the Axis and deer. my deer program is only 2 years old so no hunting yet but my axis is well along and very healthy genetics. How over crowded am I? I can fence another 40 acres if needed. What is a good ratio to go by? The animals are all very healthy but if the drought continues feeding could get out of hand. Thanks
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Re: Animal population
[Re: RockR]
#4031864
02/07/13 01:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,190
don k
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,190 |
If the animals are indeed healthy I think you have some other problem with baby survival rate. I don't know what you expect but I will loose an average of 30% or more with my Ibex.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: don k]
#4032027
02/07/13 02:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
You have by your numbers right now 70 hd on 100 acres. That numbers tell you a lot. Based on what you are feeding extra per day I would say you have more animals than what you think based off the feed amounts. If you are feeding close to 400 lbs of corn, alfalfa and protein per day then you either have zero grass/browse/forbes or you have to many mouths. Blackbuck and Axis are mainly grazers. I would also think if your fawn survival is low then you have other issues also. Predators is my first thought. I would also take some random fecal samples in to your Vet to check for internal parasites and other problems.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Animal population
[Re: stxranchman]
#4032041
02/07/13 02:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,087
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,087 |
With only 20acres of cover thats stocked pretty heavy.... what does your pasture look like? i would think dirt
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Re: Animal population
[Re: Navasot]
#4032280
02/07/13 03:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 673
TxHunter18
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 673 |
Please tell me your kidding
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Re: Animal population
[Re: TxHunter18]
#4032343
02/07/13 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 30
tufffish
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 30 |
your 1st problem is the coastal. that is a grass for cattle ranching. very little wildlife does good on coastal. i know. we have over 300 acres and it was cleared for ranching, not wildlife production. it will take 10 years or more to get browse back to support a lot of wildlife.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: tufffish]
#4032372
02/07/13 04:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
your 1st problem is the coastal. that is a grass for cattle ranching. very little wildlife does good on coastal. i know. we have over 300 acres and it was cleared for ranching, not wildlife production. it will take 10 years or more to get browse back to support a lot of wildlife. Coastal is excellent grazing for axis and blackbuck as they are mainly grazers. I know this cause I managed a herd of axis deer that were raised on coastal and klein for the venison market. With that many animals on that place it will never grow any browse no matter how many years he waits.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Animal population
[Re: stxranchman]
#4032386
02/07/13 04:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,087
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,087 |
your 1st problem is the coastal. that is a grass for cattle ranching. very little wildlife does good on coastal. i know. we have over 300 acres and it was cleared for ranching, not wildlife production. it will take 10 years or more to get browse back to support a lot of wildlife. Coastal is excellent grazing for axis and blackbuck as they are mainly grazers. I know this cause I managed a herd of axis deer that were raised on coastal and klein for the venison market. With that many animals on that place it will never grow any browse no matter how many years he waits. also rye and clover should take over for the WT in late winter/spring
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Re: Animal population
[Re: Navasot]
#4032415
02/07/13 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719 |
1 head per 7 acres of browse is probably pushing it, no? Unless you just want to flat feed them out of cattle troughs year round.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: cameron00]
#4032449
02/07/13 04:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
1 head per 7 acres of browse is probably pushing it, no? Unless you just want to flat feed them out of cattle troughs year round. As a rule of thumb you can run 7 hd of axis where you can run one cow. So if you can run a cow to 20 acres then you can run 7-8 axis there. Those are based off of grass and not browse and no extra feed. Blackbuck would be more like 10-12 head to one cow. Cattle will browse when they have no grass left, but are primarly grazers as are axis and blackbuck.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Animal population
[Re: RockR]
#4032490
02/07/13 04:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,235
Rustler
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,235 |
IMO you are 70%+ overstocked. 100 ~ 140 acres aint never gonna be enough to keep blackbucks from killing each other. Fence the other 40 acres pick your best 16 ~ 20 animals and give the rest the boot or a bullet. Your animals may appear healthy right now but the mid to long term affects of this level of over crowding is going to be catastrophic. High fawn mortality is one of the first signs the program aint working, it is natures way of saying 'no mas' . To me it sounds like your feeding is already way out of hand.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: Rustler]
#4033126
02/07/13 08:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
RockR
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11 |
I bought the place 2years ago and there were only 5 WT o I killed them and brought in genetics. The Axis and BB were here and they had Audad but killed them off. I will eliminate the BB and cull the Axis. WT are my preference. Thanks everyone
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Re: Animal population
[Re: RockR]
#4033173
02/07/13 09:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
RockR
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11 |
The BB are thriving. I was down to nine after the harsh winter a year ago and now have 19 today. Four babies this week but most are females so they must go. Bucks are all young 3, 2 and 1. I see the WT in the field a lot eating and they are always first to feeders. I feed 400 pounds per week not day.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: RockR]
#4033333
02/07/13 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498
Erathkid
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498 |
20 whitetails on 100 acres is an animal per 5 acres. That's overcrowded IMO, no wonder they're first to the feeders. They can't eat coastal. Throw in Axis and Blackbuck which can eat forbs, browse and grass and you've got overgrazing for sure. You need to thin the herd bigtime.
Last edited by Erathkid; 02/07/13 10:01 PM.
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it. Don't text and drive.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: Erathkid]
#4033364
02/07/13 10:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 171
jmg62158
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 171 |
You might want to reference "Exotic Mammals Competing With The Natives". Published in 1981.
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Re: Animal population
[Re: jmg62158]
#4034427
02/08/13 04:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
RockR
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11 |
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Re: Animal population
[Re: RockR]
#4034444
02/08/13 04:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
RockR
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11 |
A quick question to any breeders. How do WT do well being raised when they are crowded in small pens until sold. My breed bucks were 3years old so that means they were penned that entire. I know they are fed well but isn't that over crowding? My breeder had does that were over 10. I have found that BB bucks must be about the same age or they kill off the younger ones. My 3year old and 2year old are picking on the small one already. The two year olds brother was killed last year when small and the oldest one had his dad killed by me for killing others. I am going to keep the two oldest bucks and 3-4 females. I will throw in the others for free as part of package hunts. Thanks for everyones help.
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