Own an H&R .223 Handi Rifle and a Windom AR-15 5.56.

Reloading .223 using Hornady manual. 55grn FMJ and 53grn VMAX using approx 25grn of Varget. Do not remember the exact powder charge off the top of my head.

I realize that the chambers are different between the two and know the 5.56 can handle both. No questions there.

As a reloader, what are the differences? Have a bunch of lake city brass that I am using for the AR. Have new new remington .223 brass for the H&R.

Did not have to remove any crimped primers on the lake city brass and the boxes were labled .223.

I think the 5.56 brass has thicker walls and base, but the external dimensions are the same? Do head stamps say 5.56 on them?

Sorry for the rambling, kinda hard to get my point across on this one.

Mike

Basically I am asking as long as I am using known .223 brass I am producing true .223 loads and not higher pressure 5.56 loads. Given the same powder charge, a smaller volume 5.56 case should produce higher pressures....

Lake City 5.56 brass does not necessarily have less case capacity than commercial .223 brass. Therefore loading LC 5.56 brass using .223 Remington data does not necessarily raise the pressures to 5.56 levels. The brass is interchangeable. The only real difference that you'll see consistently is the headstamp.

So if I use true 5.56 brass and load with .223 data, I will have produced a 5.56 round? I think.

It is not that simple.

That is what makes this so confusing. My best bet is to basically load separate rounds for each gun and I will have no issues. Could be easy because I am using nickle plated brass for the H&R. Easy to identify. But if I have mixed brass for the AR I may get a different POI when shooting it.

Yeah, have to sort brass if you are concerned with precision accuracy. For blasting ammo, I use mixed brass.

Just to register again, though, loading a 223 load in a 5.56 brass does not a 5.56 nato round make... not necessarily at least. 223 loads are around 52,000 psi (or cup? I don't know the difference), while 5.56 nato are at 62,000 (if I remember correctly, someone correct if I am mis-remembering). Your AR will cycle fine with standard 223 loads though, fwiw. No reason to go to a max load and use more powder if it is just target/blasting ammo.

Yes, not sure about the exact numbers on the 5.56, but that would be 55,000 psi for the .223 round. I think it's right at 60,000 psi for the 5.56 though. Easy enough to find on the web if anyone really wants to know.

The 5.56 NATO round can be thought of as a .223 round that is souped up for use in the M-16. It's loaded to higher pressure by about 5,000 psi as JDK has said. The 5.56 chamber is cut the same as the .223 chamber except for the throat or leade.

There is no practical difference between 5.56 brass and .223 Remington brass. In fact, I found a deal on unfired LC 5.56 NATO brass a while back and use it exclusively in a .223 bolt-action. I think it's the best brass for reloading .223 Remington. I don't believe there's any reason you couldn't duplicate 5.56 NATO ammo using commercial .223 brass.

I would use .223 recipes and create a few spreads all the way up to max pressure (which I usually avoid). Then pick the most accurate even if it's well below max.

All listed data that I know of is commercial 223 saami spec data. I have never seen any Nato 5.56 data available for the reloader.

The 556 brass has tolerences that are very wide open in comparison to SAAMI and it usually means the OAL is outside 223 dimensions. Not a tremendous amount but in a world where a couple of thousands can make a difference it could be a show stopper.

Since the 556 round is a NATO round, practicaly every NATO member nation makes their own ammo or at least could, and having a chamber that will allow ammo from far away places that do not have the QC to hold saami specifications is mandatory.

The bullets are crimped with a sealer around the bullets to keep moisture out and the projectile in place while in the toughest of enviroments. As long s you trim and size the brass for your chamber it will shoot fine in your 223. I recomend a small base die for any cases that come from a 556 for either application and for any that will be goin into a 556.

Thanks for all the info guys. Not really trying to reload a 5.56 round, just did not know if I was making one buy using supposed 5.56 brass and .223 powder loads. Not a big deal overall because I an not a Blackwater operator, LEO, zombie killer, or other, just want to kill coke cans and watermelons at the family farm.

Mike

The .223 and 5.56 are not necessarily loaded to different pressures but they are measured differently thus different numbers. There is a lot of mis-information and lawyer speak out on the web about this but they are the same ammo and literally thousands and thousands of 5.56 ammo is shot thru .223's all the time.

i was understanding you wouldnt want to shoot 556 through a 223, but its ok to shoot 223 out of a 556. if it doesnt say 556 on the firearm, then it cant take the increased pressure.(sure it might fire them, but in the long run it can harm yer firearm if its made for 223 only?)

Based on shooting/reloading with my Dad's 223 Handi-rifle, I don't think I'd shoot full bore NATO 5.56 ammo in it. Every handload combo I tried in the rifle showed significant pressure signs well below max loads. Of course that's just one rifle and it might not be representative of all Handi-rifles.

A very knowledgable and long time comp shooter says that both 223 and 5.56 are fine in a modern bolt rifle. I probably would not shoot 5.56 in a 223-marked AR, but that's only to avoid beating up my AR.

And good luck trying to get enough Varget in a 223 case, behind a 55 gr bullet, that would exceed max loads.

Accurate arms reloading guide has a section after the .223 for NATO 5.56 loading.

Wow!!! The 5.56 is not loaded to higher pressures than .223 they are just measured differently. There is a lot of lawyer speak out there from many.

"According to the official NATO proofing guidelines the 5.56×45mm NATO case can handle up to 430 MPa (62,000 psi) piezo service pressure. In NATO regulated organizations every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum pressure to certify for service issue. This is EQUAL to the C.I.P. maximum pressure guideline for the .223 Remington cartridge, that is the 5.56×45mm NATO parent cartridge."

Here is an article where someone tested it and proved they are basically loaded to the same pressures BUT he still won't tell you it's OK because he might get sued.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

Any knowledgeable bolt guns labeled 223/556? About to be in the market for a varmint rig, I would love to skip all the confusion as well. I read every one says it is ok to shoot 556 in the "said" bolt rifle or they say the have contacted the "said" manufacturer, and was told it should handle them fine. Was just wondering if and are marked for it, like the savage fp or savage sps tactical?

I've shot plenty of NRA highpower matches using a mix of commercial and military brass with no ill effects. Accuracy wasn't diminished and no signs of pressure were seen. Load within SAAMI specs and you'll be fine.

I don't interpret his results and conclusions to indicate that 5.56 and .223 are loaded to the same pressures. In fact, it seems to me he is saying that in most cases you're likely to get away with firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber, which I can accept. I am in no way convinced that it's a good idea. Anytime you pierce primers it's a good idea to eliminate the cause. Continuing to use ammo that shows "popped" or pierced primers is a bad idea.