Trying to start this year a little more in advance than I did last year. Last year, I just ended up having two corn piles that were endless on 200 acres. I got a protein feeder (1200 lb boss buck) that I didn't use last year. I have one major sized food plot (2 acres of clover and 5 acres soyeans/corn). Should I put my protein feeder there?

I like running the corn piles and find that the deer are skittish to my corn feeders so just dump two bags of corn at each spot on the ground each week and setup stand 20-100 yards from depending on archery versus firearm. My dad and I both harvested good bucks last year this way. I don't want to stop putting the corn out for fear I will prevent deer from being programmed to those spots. If I continue to do that, am I missing out on the deer hitting the protein feeders to grow antlers?

Or should I even run the protein feeder at all? Is one enough for the 200 acres and will I really even make enough difference to warrant the protein feeder? My property is not high fenced.

Thank you.

The protein will help the deer. Will you see the benefit? Yes and no the deer will come to it, and stick around because of it, but there isnt anything keeping them from coming eating and leaving.

matt

The deer will continue to hit your corn. The deer will improve due to the protein. Fill the protein feeder.

A lot depends on the shape of your place. If it is a square I would put the protein feeder in the middle. If that is where the food plots are I would put it there also then. I would put up a pen for the protein feeder. The protein will help hold deer along with make anything that eats out of it from now on better health wise over time. I would be cautious of feeding free choice corn the way you are doing it also. Moldy corn or rain on the corn can cause you some serious health issues. Hogs have to be eating it all up if they have found it already. I would build some larger feed pens and put the corn feeders in them and train the deer to go to those locations, you still do not have to hunt them if you choose not to so that deer get comfortable. You can still trickle corn out of a bucket in the same areas you have been every time you go to train the deer to come to a spot to hunt if you are not getting much activity at first at the spin feeders.

Stxranchman, when you comment on something I really feel like I am listening to a Jedi master. How long have you been hunting and game managing. You are never at a lost for advice and it's mostly very good! Impressive.

Deer eat the corn so quick that by the end of the week it's all gone whether having rained or not. I never see mold, but I understand your point and I'll have to consider that as I'm sure some alfatoxin could exist whether mold is visible or not...heck it could exist in the bag before I put it out!

My property is sort of a square, more like a rectangle with plots in the middle. I'm trying to put all the food there and hunt funnels on the way to the food this year rather than have plots all scattered about.

I don't have any hog issues where I am, thankfully. I guess I'm just confused still about recommendations...is it better to have the corn and protein together and if so will the deer still benefit from the protein or will they mainly go to the corn? Or should I not even start feeding corn until Sept or so then switch to corn after feeding protein all summer? Is one feeder enough for 200 acres? My dad and I have killed about 6 115-130" deer on our property (no high fence) which are awesome deer, but would love to grow some more bone. How many more inches could we expect after a few years of protein feeding? Oh, and do I stop feeding protein during hunting season/and just go corn? Sorry for all the questions.

Oh dear lord...don't make his head any bigger than it already is

But as always, good advice from Dr. Waffles

Outdoor Freak, IMO, it is better to have the protein feeder and the corn separate. I would not hunt the protein feeders.

As far as the number of feeders, I would go with 2 minimum. The reason for this is that it will allow more to feed without having to compete. Especially the does. The more doe you can keep around, the better. Bucks tend to take over the feeders and will push the doe out. Also, two feeders allows you to set up for multiple winds. It is tough to hunt one spot and keep your scent isolated.

Feeding corn is a good idea, especially on smaller acreage. I do not feed year around.

Also, 6 bucks off of 200 acres sounds like alot and I am not sure where you hunt, but I don't know of many 3 buck counties Instead of just taking a buck, try to only take a mature one and use the other buck tags for mature, inferior deer. Management on 200 acres alone is difficult, but can be done.

6 bucks in past 6 years:) Sorry for miscommunication. We only take one mature buck (what we consider to be mature, 3.5 yo). Otherwise we harvests lots of does.

My mistake.

If they are eating the corn that fast then other issues could also arise from eating that much that fast let alone the wet or moldy feed on top of it. What would be of an issue or concern to me is them eating that much grain so quickly especially if it gets dry/droughty and that is all they have to eat is grain. I have run into issues with deer eating free choice corn/protein mixed together back in the early 90's. They were getting it free choice year round and we had a very wet year that produced a heavy mast crop of 3 different kind of acorns along with persimons. I found close to 20 deer dead in late August and into Sept that. I was told the problems was the amount of grain in the diet coupled with the high sugar mast crops.
I would try the one protein feeder at first in the middle to try and get the deer started on feed. I would not hunt it. My experience with bucks and WT on feed is they will walk over corn to eat protein once they get started on protein. When it gets colder and the rut starts they will eat corn better. I would still put a corn feeder in or around your protein feeder since deer now what corn is and it will bring them to the feeder location. I would spin corn after dark and before daylight in small amounts to make the deer feel more secure around the feeders. Once the deer start on the protein or protein/corn mix then move the corn feeder to a new location to start to bring deer to it so that if you see the need for a second protein feeder then you have them coming in.
If you can afford it I would feed protein year round to benefit every deer born and raised on the property. It will keep traffic flow centered around it and will cut the range area down for those deer that use it. It will work very well for you when you are inbetween plantings in your food plots or it gets to dry to grow them. The deer will have one or the other or both to use if and when they want.
Your biggest benefit will be in fawn survival. More fawns mean more buck fawns. That means more bucks in the future. Those buck fawns raised on protein and food plots will do better and grow bigger at younger ages. With more bucks they will give you a better chance of getting some older bucks which will always have more antler growth due to age.

You know what happens when you assume right?

So you guys think I'll see some growth in antlers and body weight a few years out and if so what sort of growth in inches? Looked for articles online and came across a few journal article on feeding/deer behavior but didn't find anything other than that feeding seemed to cause nocturnal feeding of deer.

Would it be bad practice to run the protein feeder year round in the central food plots and then used bagged corn (for some reason they just don't like spin feed when tried last year) starting in Sept through Jan. on hunting spots...or would I be better off just hunting these corridors without corn.

I've read some thoughts that possibly putting food in different spots rather than one location will cause the bucks to push further back in cover since does bed near food and bucks away from all the chaos created by does bedding near food. Perhaps I don't need to bait with corn at all, but growing up it's the only thing I knew and have always enjoyed putting it out and seeing lots of deer over it, so am afraid to 'not' do it.

It really depends on your deer as to what you can expect from the added nutrition from pellets and plots. Age will also effect what you see the increased nutrition. I would say a doe that gets on feed this year and has a fawn next year will give you increases of 10-15% on antler growth on some bucks due to you taking away the drought factor if these bucks get some age on them. You can see jumps at younger ages but not as much as you will see when those bucks get to be 4 yrs old or older in some herds. Increased body weights come from increased skeletal structure and age also. Deer on feed will definetly increase their body size at all ages. Increase nutritional intake due to body size can and should lead to more antler growth in the right deer.
As far as nocturnal, I will say this: healthy deer move less. Healthy fat deer are not going to move in the heat of a summer day much no matter what you do, if you feed them or not. Healthy fat old deer will move less due to not needing to. IMO feeding does not make deer nocturnal as much as heat and body condition do related to heat. As it cools deer move more.
I am not a fan of feeding free choice corn at all. If you are worried about free choice feeding making them nocturnal then what do you think is happening feeding free choice corn? I would feed free choice protein and not hunt around it. I would train the deer to eat corn from certain spots you feed everytime or train them to a road feeder. I think in time deer will learn to eat from corn feeders. I try also to make it a point not to shoot a deer under or around a corn feeder if I can help it. I corn locations around a feeder on roads to shoot over as much as possible.
One thing about corning several spots is it can spread out your dominant deer. Bucks and does. Yes does can be dominant also and keep younger bucks before the rut and other does off of feed. So spreading the corn around can actually create more deer sightings in some instances. Keeping the does around will get the bucks around them in the rut. More corn locations also give you more spots to hunt with various winds and not leave your scent around as much or pressure one or two spots as much. Mature bucks learn this at a young age.
Also let the deer show you what is working and what is not. Don't be afraid to try something. Use trail cameras to watch it when you can't sit there.

Thanks a lot stxranchman, wealth of knowledge. Makes more sense now. I'll def. start the protein and probably will lay off the corn.

I agree with everything STX says except the 10-15% increase in antler growth. I think this will be very difficult to achieve with only the addition of supplemental feeding. I will add that he has 20x the experience on this subject that I do, but my experience on free ranch deer, especially with the limited acreage, would not support that statement.

I would also add that, if the terrain allows it, set up between the feeding areas to catch deer travelling. Don't rely soley on the feed.

Good luck and keep us posted

Good stuff right here. STXranchman (Yoda) strikes again. I agree with most of what you are saying but I too think the 10-15% increase is a little ambitious. My understanding is that those type of percentages usually take 3+ years when starting a protein feeding program. Everything else that ranchman and txshntr have said, I back with my 35+ years of low fence South Texas hunting experience.

Agreed, stxranchman. Ranchman, am I wasting time free spinning a mix of corn/protein on my 80 acres in Young county more as an attractant with supplemental benefit as opposed to straight corn? I tried it 3 years ago and I seemed to see more and larger bucks then when I just threw out straight corn plus less hogs. I now have feeder pens. The deer seemed to stick around longer feeding as well. I know gravity protein feeders are best but with corn and protein prices converging, I thought I'd try a little cocktail for them. What do you think?

OK...I am still confused.

Are you saying that a doe gets on the feed this year and her fawn will show a 10-15% increase in 4-5 years compared to the average deer that are in the area now?

Some on here think that spinning protein out on the ground it is a waste of money. It is if your deer are not eating it up quickly or you are in very sandy land that allows it to get covered up or you are in a very rainy area. If you get the right conditions I view feeding protein/corn mix from a spin feeder no different than from a timered protein feeder other than one is from the ground and one is into a feed trough or tube.
Here is the way I view controlled or timered feeding of protein. You are not trying to feed the whole herd free choice but only what you can afford on your budget. The more locations you can feed the better your results will be due to the fact that more deer will have access to feed. One feeder is not as good as 5 or more if that is how many are on your lease or land. I also look at controlled feeding taking care of those deer that show up everyday to eat. No matter if it is buck or does or both. They will benefit from the increased nutrition. It is now part of their daily diet. If you have 5 feeders spinning 15 lbs total of feed a day you are now allowing the other deer that do not eat it a chance at 15 lbs of native forage that is available if your range conditions can support it. Two groups of deer can benefit from one group eating protein. But your native habitat must be of a good enough nutritional value to see the benefit. While feeding protein on the ground is never ideal under the right condtions it can work. Finding the right conditions is key. If you are trying to target bucks with your feeding then set your timers to feed after dark and before daylight when bucks are most active. This way they have the best chance at getting the feed.

Yes. Increases in areas of lower nutrition are much greater than those of higher nutrition. Putting deer on a constant nutrional supplement is like having above average rainfall and range conditions every year. Genetics is still key and can not be over looked. I have never seen genetics on any feed label yet.

If you figure out how to get genetics in a bag, hook a brother up

So, if you have a year with above average rainfall and range conditions, will the protein still make a difference or is there a "max" potential that will be reached and the herd will be sustained instead of improved? Or, does this condition just increase the carrying capacity and promote a higher fawn crop, thus increasing the population rather than increase herd health?

If this is the case, how do you battle the carrying capacity versus herd health and antler growth on 200 acres?

"So, if you have a year with above average rainfall and range conditions, will the protein still make a difference or is there a "max" potential that will be reached and the herd will be sustained instead of improved? Or, does this condition just increase the carrying capacity and promote a higher fawn crop, thus increasing the population rather than increase herd health?"

What protein will do in those years of above average rainfall is not going to be that significant if they are on it every year. There will be certain deer that are the exception to this also. The increased nutrition in the bad years is what allows them to show even larger than 10-15% increases in the good years. It is more of an increase in herd health than what one realizes. If you stunt some deer at younger ages then increase the nutrition can they reach their full potential? I do not think anyone can really answer that question since there is no research than can be done on deer to mimic that scenario. No 2 deer of the same age will grow the same antlers. The "max" potential is only as max as the genetics will let it be in that given year. What improved nutrition and range conditions do is show the potential in that year of the herd. The improvement should be in the future generations of the herd. If things are going right with your management the herd then you should see increased scores and body sizes (to a point) over the future generations.
Increasing nutrition will not solve other issues. Those issues need to be looked at before trying to just increase carrying capacity with supplemetation. More animals is not always the answer. More age is better. More mouths may not be unless your ratios are not were you want them to be.
In the 200 acre case it is really going to be dependent on what they neighbors are doing. I would guess on what he has told us is that in killing deer from 115-130 that they are not just shooting everything that walks around them. What increased nutrition will do is increase fawn crops. More fawns means more bucks. More bucks if the neighbors are on board with some selections means more bucks reaching older ages. That means better or larger trophies. That is what he is wanting. Can it work? Yes it can but he is going to need some help from the neighbors. The fine line will be between to many deer and only getting more of the right deer. That is tough part on smaller places.

That last part is what I was getting at. Seems that as you improve the health of the herd, there will be an increase in the population. It would be very difficult to supplement enough on 200acres to counter the effects of the population growth. But I guess along those same lines, it would be difficult to supplement enough on the 200 acres to improve the health of the herd significantly enough to cause a population problem.

I am used to the deer in West Texas and there are very few deer on our 10k acre ranch that would call any 200 acres home. Some are more frequent in certain areas, but they travel out there. Even the mature deer.

Interesting topic