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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: dee]
#2844450
12/16/11 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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A 45 will not out penetrate a high caliber rifle if both are using the same style bullets.
The energy felt on your shoulder will not be the same, there are too many factors such as firearm weight and stock design. check out these penetration tests, the pistols beat them all except the big bore lobbers http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844456
12/16/11 04:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099 |
Toss in the 22-250 or 220 swift and see what happens...  Oh PO Ackley did.................
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#2844504
12/16/11 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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Toss in the 22-250 or 220 swift and see what happens... Oh PO Ackley did................. that was on steel not soft tissue, dont know why theres a difference but there is. heres a 22lr penetration test, it will hang with centerfire rifles with only a 100 ft/bs http://brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844546
12/16/11 05:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,235
Rustler
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,235 |
Call it whatever you want, I think the "waves" "shock" or "energy" produced or released by a bullet going through the gel give a good representation of how a bullet can have lethal affects on the surrounding organs and tissue without the bullet traveling through them. I could be wrong.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844581
12/16/11 05:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
Wet paper is not a consistent media. Also for the test to even be relative the same or similar bullets need to be tested across the board.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: dee]
#2844596
12/16/11 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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Wet paper is not a consistent media. you kidding right. bout as cosistent as one could get, a live deer woukd be more inconsistent. fact is slower moving bullets almost always out pentrate faster ones. heavier ones too almost always out penetrate lighter ones. what i am getting at is KE has no bearing on penetration and or bearing on lethality
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: Rustler]
#2844605
12/16/11 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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yep there is something going on, call it what you want, i think its high velocity creating hydraulic pressure, cause even small fast calibers do it, and they have little KE. Call it whatever you want, I think the "waves" "shock" or "energy" produced or released by a bullet going through the gel give a good representation of how a bullet can have lethal affects on the surrounding organs and tissue without the bullet traveling through them. I could be wrong.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844615
12/16/11 05:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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check out the lil 22, not bad for a peep squeek
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844642
12/16/11 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: jmc82]
#2844668
12/16/11 06:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 180
Kiko-G
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 180 |
I used a .243 with out any prolems on s texas critters. I now use a 7mm-08 and it does hits a lil harder, but not much. a 11 year old should not have a problem with the recoil. Start him with 120 gr bullets.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844746
12/16/11 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
You'll never get the same consistency due to the verying rate of water absorption in the paper. Ballistic media or clay is more consistent.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#2844763
12/16/11 06:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,202
Adelbridge
Pro Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,202 |
In the case of a bullet energy is released into what the bullet hits reducing the bullet energy and velocity to zero where the bullet or the many pieces thereof have no KE left because there is no velocity to impart energy, just mass (weight). So I guess you could say the wound is caused by the energy transfered to a pliable object (your deer) as the bullet is slowing down on its hopefully well aimed path into or through the animal.
A 300 mag doesnt hit with 3000 lbs of force, there no way the impact on a deer is that, it has to be exactly the impact on your shoulder when fired, newtons law. 300 win mag you probably get about 35-40 ft lbs of energy in the shooters shoulder. That is almost all from the bullet going from rest to motion. 3000 ft lbs of energy is developed as the bullet travels down 20+ " of barrel.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: Adelbridge]
#2844813
12/16/11 07:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
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300 win mag you probably get about 35-40 ft lbs of energy in the shooters shoulder. That is almost all from the bullet going from rest to motion. 3000 ft lbs of energy is developed as the bullet travels down 20+ " of barrel. so a rifle defies the laws of physics.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: Kiko-G]
#2844856
12/16/11 07:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
postoak
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I used a .243 with out any prolems on s texas critters. I now use a 7mm-08 and it does hits a lil harder, but not much. a 11 year old should not have a problem with the recoil. Start him with 120 gr bullets. Remember the recent post where the OP wound up buying a 6.5 lb. 7-08 and found the recoil more than he expected or desired? Personally, I'd go with a standard weight .270 WCF, and start him out shooting Remington Managed Recoil loads which fire 115 grain bullets at 2710 fps -- IOW about like the .257 Roberts. And a Bushnell Elite 3200 with Leupold rings and base will come in at around $250, and is a fine optic rig.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: postoak]
#2845062
12/16/11 08:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,194
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,194 |
WOW! Read most of this and did I say WOW!
I think they're both good chamberings.
But I will say for the nonbelievers in .243 do a little reasearch on the available twist rate in 6mm. A 1:7.5 twist will run some pretty high BC bullets. Which equates to more retained velocity, which equates to long range capability as well as ft/lbs. of energy delivered down range.
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 Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#3082386
03/11/12 10:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Bhute Jalokia
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1 |
Oh people PLEEEEEEEEEZe!Does anyone here think, even for a second or two, that a good understanding of the intended targets anatomy coupled with extreme attention to bullet placement may have just a tad bit to do with this?
The last thing I want crossing my mind while I am putting that last half pound of pressure on my two pound trigger is something the size of a DINNER PLATE!
Back up a second and think about this. Can you reasonably expect to put three cold barreled rounds of what ever your banging away with into a quarter? A dime?
We hand load our stuff as if our own life depended on it! I can't remember the last time a deer went more than several steps before collapsing in upon itself! Why? Because I know before I add that last spec of pressure, that the tick sized spot is DEAD IN LINE with the valves of the heart! No formulas needed sir. Just a thought on the matter...
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: jmc82]
#3084547
03/12/12 10:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
chital_shikari
Minor in training
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Minor in training
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547 |
I would say go for 7mm-08 if you can afford bullets. If reloading then definitely go for the 08. Definitely get the Vanguard....pwnage rifle! If you aren't reloading then 243 would be better for the wallet
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: Bhute Jalokia]
#3084749
03/12/12 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 571
wchamilton
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 571 |
Oh people PLEEEEEEEEEZe!Does anyone here think, even for a second or two, that a good understanding of the intended targets anatomy coupled with extreme attention to bullet placement may have just a tad bit to do with this?
The last thing I want crossing my mind while I am putting that last half pound of pressure on my two pound trigger is something the size of a DINNER PLATE!
Back up a second and think about this. Can you reasonably expect to put three cold barreled rounds of what ever your banging away with into a quarter? A dime?
We hand load our stuff as if our own life depended on it! I can't remember the last time a deer went more than several steps before collapsing in upon itself! Why? Because I know before I add that last spec of pressure, that the tick sized spot is DEAD IN LINE with the valves of the heart! No formulas needed sir. Just a thought on the matter... no worries my friend, on these boards there are always going to be those who excel at sitting behind a desk and killing animals with a pencil and keyboard. there are going to be those who excel at sitting in the bush and killing animals with a well placed shot with an adequate caliber for the task. And then there are going to be a lot of confused people between those two levels. there are examples of each just on this one thread.
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: wchamilton]
#3084760
03/12/12 11:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,787
scattergun
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,787 |
I didn't read all of this nor am I going to. To answer the OP get a 7mm-08, a Savage.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: meathunter]
#3085658
03/13/12 06:55 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519
Nasty Canasta
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519 |
My 2 cents.
The 7mm/08 is an excellent cartridge. The .243 is an excellent round for yotes, etc.. I personally think that it is a bit small for any deer other than the smallest whitetails. You might want to steer your son to consider either the .260 Remington, or the 6.5mm Creedmoor. These two cartridges are VERY similar. I would expect that loaded with 120 grain bullets that either would be an excellent choice for a young hunter. Further, he will never �outgrow� either one of them. Loaded with a 139, 140 grain bullet either is an excellent long range cartridge, and will be able to handle just about anything that the 7mm/08 can.
Again, my 2 cents.
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#3085666
03/13/12 07:24 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519
Nasty Canasta
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519 |
An arrow typically kills from hemorage due to the cut made by the arrowhead be that watever material. A bullet on the though is more like a blunt force instrument tearing and bludgenoning its way thruough. Both take sufficient KE to cause enough damage to cause the death of the intended animal. Wether that is 40ft/lbs with an arrow or 250ft/lbs with a Hornet
your correct but I like to say its velocity not KE, KE is just a mathmatical derivative of velocity. Velocity on the other hand is measurable quantum I believe that you meant quantity. If you want to talk velocity and quanta then we�ll need to talk to Herr Professor Doktor Heisenberg. 
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#3085667
03/13/12 07:33 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519
Nasty Canasta
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519 |
Vanguard atleast site your source when cutting and pasting so it doesn't look as your own words... the ability for people to see your reference material makes it more legitimate a good read and link to keep, better have time though its long. http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/myths.html Seriously???
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Re: 7mm-08 vs .243
[Re: vanguard]
#3085670
03/13/12 07:39 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519
Nasty Canasta
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 519 |
Knetic energy is not a derivitive it's the energy an object carries it works directly with inertia which all very with different velocity's. can you physically measure kinetic energy of a bullet. I can weight a bullet and i can measure its velocity when we do the math isnt that realy potential energy ahhh my head hurts this is mucho petho Yes, yes you can. It�s called a ballistic pendulum....
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