Just wondering, how many of you upland guy's & gals have had a dog that learned to point, back & retrieve on it's own? I have heard of a few but had never seen it myself till we got Bleu, he has never been on a check cord but has always pointed as soon as he smells a bird, backs as soon as he sees another dog on point & will fetch any bird he can get to first. The first time we worked him on planted birds he was 10-11 months old & we just turned him loose to see what he would do & he pointed the first bird he found. All I did was teach him Whoa while messing around in the yard & played some fetch with balls & toys. The rest he has learned by just going hunting & watching the other dogs. I guess the part I am most amazed with is the backing, he backed every time he saw another dog on point last season & hadn't ever found his own wild bird yet. How often does this happen that y'all have seen? I haven't seen this come up in the past, so I thought I would ask.

I would think it is pretty common probably not with someone's first dog but maybe their 2nd, 3rd and so on. Training an upland dog is not nearly as taxing as training retrievers/flushers to a high level. With a pointer all you really need to do is Whoa break them and build some retrieving desire and then work on backing after they get a little experience. It takes all of one or two days to teach a retriever to quarter and hunt but months and months to teach them to be steady and use their eyes to mark and trust your handling on blinds. That's my opinion after training both. I know if I were a pointer guy my life would be a lot easier as far as training goes.

I wish I had you around when I was breaking some of the hard headed, conterfit SOBs I've seen over the years, you could have reasured me as to how easy it is.

You read my mind.

CC sounds like he's a natural. If he has a soft mouth and quarters well in the field I'd stud him out.

I am most definitely going to breed him, he does have a soft mouth & hunts great, believe me, I have been waiting on him to screw up but he hasn't. Y'all probably don't believe me but I didn't post this to brag on him, I posted it to see how common it is. I have had six bird dogs (he makes seven) & in close relation to a few more & this is a first for me. He'll probably run wild & bust every covey we find this weekend since I posted this.

It only took my pointer a couple of dove hunts to learn to watch the skies and mark down birds. All his training was for upland, so I just taught him to sit. Piece of cake. Taught him down and took him goose hunting.

...maybe it's because pointing dogs are SO much smarter than labs..

My V dogs all point and back naturally, the EP, as Chet says, is a bit hard headed. Once they figure out what I want them to do, they aim to please.

I'd brag on him in a heartbeat.
You might try to look into his bloodlines, try to find a not to distance female with the same qualities ( or close to)to breed him with.

Sounds as if you have a special bird dog. I've seen very few of them in my 40 years of bird dogging.

Kindall that's great. Can your dog run a 200 yard blind retrieve to a duck that coasted after being wounded? I bet not as that takes a long long time to train that into a dog. I was not knocking pointers at all in fact when I hunt upland I prefer to hunt my flushers with pointers as the pointers can cover more ground faster. I'm just saying that IMO it is more taxing to train a "Finished" non-slip retriever vs a pointer strictly for upland hunting. Upland work is more about instinct while non-slip work is mostly about training. Thats just my opinion. I bet your Pointer retrieves better than any well trained non-slip retriever.

I've only trained and helped train a handful, but all of them would point and back instinctively. Retrieving.....that always had to be taught.

Huck just joking around with you.

All my other dogs naturally pointed but they wouldn't hold the point until they were worked on a check cord & taught to stay until I flushed the bird.

My 4 1/2 female shorthair, Abby, is my first bird dog and I never worked with her at all before putting her on wild quail at 1 year old. She pointed her first covey from 30 yards away and didn't move a muscle until I flushed them. She retrieved a bird I shot out of that covey. 30 minutes later her sire pointed a covey and she backed from 20-30 yards away and never moved a muscle. She's still that steady to this day and retrieves just as well. I've never had her on a check cord or anything, no launchers either. She still doesn't even know whoa. She knows sit and stay and that cause she wants her treats She is by far one of the best wild bird dogs I have hunted behind. If she had papers we would never miss a NSTRA trial. Don't worry though, my male made up for her being all natural!

Pointers 1 in 40 plus years

I think the term is born broke.

Only one I've seen do it on its own was a lab.

Take that back I know a gsp that did the same but her point was werid she would start twitching. Both those dog grew up on birds every day of their life and shot over at least 70 plus days from the time they where both five to six months old.

Gsp didn't make a hand until she was 2 though.. lab will he had it down by the end of his first season..but he also hunted with some really good brits that year

Seen a few that made themselves a dog over 50 years, but a very few. All of those were home raised. Pops always said they were natural dogs it was up to us to bring out every dogs best, some were made to be covey dogs and others were single dogs and few were both those son are the keepers.

I have had one in 33 years, main problem with him was keeping him in the county. He started honoring other dogs beeper collars at 1 and half - smart cookie.

Had a lot that were pretty natural to point. Had a certain line of Elhew pups that seem to be natural retrievers that I have focused on after that one came along.

Was on guard rail bred pointers early in my upland gunning days, and they are hard to get to back...want to act like they didnt see the dog on point.

That is FUNNY.

About 11 years ago I got two female Elhew pups. Took them for walks from 8 weeks to 3 months. At four took them to a training club grounds outside of Atlanta, took them into a planted quail and both stopped on a loose lead. Next time I dropped the lead and same thing. They both pointed their first covey both backed on sight and both were natural retrievers. May have cheated with the check cord on their first bird but as close to a dog hiting the ground broke as I've had over the years.

That sounds like a Snakefoot trait. This Snakefoot female did the same thinsg;

Registered Nbr: 1456395
Owner: JOHN MITCHELL
Registered Name: SNAKEFOOT'S ELHEW BELLE
Callname: BELLE
Breed: English Pointer
Region: MK
Sex: F
Date Whelped: Saturday, May 04, 1996
Sire: CH ELHEW SNAKEFOOT
Dam: HANNA'S ELHEW LOU

Belle was the pups mother.

My current 6 y/o shorthair is all natural. I just put him on some birds and he did it all right. I taught him "here", "off", "dead" and "whoa" (so he would whoa when i needed him to whoa) and worked in the whistle commands, but as far as pointing, backing, and retrieving... he's always done that naturally since I first started working him on birds around 8 months old. I had the benefit of working him around some seasoned shorthairs, and i think that helps, but in his case, he was hunting with the big boys on wild birds at 10 months old and holding his own and not cluttering up the hunt!

all my other dogs, i have had to work on with one aspect or another, but I have never owned a "pointing dog" that didn't point. period.

How many of these dogs were collar conditiond?