And I will put AMEN on that......

All I can say is the day that it becomes wrong in someones mind when a young lady like that takes a buck like that (regardless of the reasons or circumstances) something has gone wrong with what is really "hunting" in that persons mind and with this great state. I'd be pissed if he (middleman) took it - but not a youth.

It is only by getting our youth interested and addicted to HUNTING that this sport will continue in anything other than an elitist sport that only a small handfull of old men interested in nothing but the size of a deers horns participate in.

That's my thoughts and I mean no insults by them.

Earl

sorry bout the luck, it was a good buck for sure and would have been better for sure........talk to the guy about it and maybe something good could come from it......date with the girl???

I can see why you are upset, however I have to agree with Earl on this one. I posted a picture of the young 9 point my daughter killed last weekend in the photo section in the "kid's 1st kill" thread -- I had let this buck walk twice this year. I had a mature 6 point that doesn't have brows picked out for her. On our second hunt together Thanksgiving weekend out walks this really nice "non-mature" 9 with a broken brow...after seeing her excitement once she noticed him....I could say nothing other than .."get ready and let me know when you are on him and steady...". Her smile and obvious feeling of pride were more than enough to make me feel my decision was the correct one...now she is talking to me about only taking mature or cull deer now that she has taken a "trophy"....

So, the moral here is that he probably couldn't tell her no, and if he did she may have lost her desire to hunt and become a member of our outdoorsmen fraternity. I do feel that when he texted you he should of said..."i know we agreed, but ....." and assured you the only reason the deer was taken was for his daughter.

Well said...

You can get mad all you want, but I would be willing to bet most people on this forum would have shot him. I know I would have if he showed up on my place. I think the reason that your mad is because you let him walk wanting something biggerand it backfired on you.

Rudyard Kipling


If

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

I understand the frustration, and I think the middleman should have been more up front. However, I would have to agree with Earl on this one.

Tough situation. Glad for the girl but yea the dad cant be trusted. You are hunting 3600 acres so there will be other deer. It sounds like you are done with the place. If its worth loosing then continue on. If you want to keep it then hold back and dont deal with this guy.

what county are you hunting, that looks like a buck I have photo's of, and you, and he was running with a cull 6-point?

That deer need another year or two, but I let my daughter take a 3.5 year old 8-point for her first buck, she was 7, she is my little buddy now, she has killed 2 does and a very mature buck since, she is 11 now. I do beleive there is a place for exceptions for kids, that deer is probably one of the highlights of her life, and will be on the wall for a very long time. Don't forget, were not farming whitetails, were trying to manage for a healthier, more mature herd. Chances are if that many people were seeing him, he wouldn't have made it another year anyway. I feel your pain though.

I'm not upset with the Huntress who harvested it, I'm all for getting youth involved. And I didn't let him walk because I wanted something "bigger", but rather I wanted something "older", which I got, and am very happy with. My issue is with the father.

Do I pass on bucks that most people would shoot if I believe they are young? Absolutely. Most of yall would slap me upside the head if you knew what buck I watched feeding last year under the feeder. Has he been seen this year? Nope, it's just a chance we took. It's just hard for me to accept when someone sets up a management goal with you, reviews pics of a particular buck and agrees he should have the chance to develop another year, then texts me a pic of the particular deer dead.

I don't agree with Earl, though I can understand his point of view.

By that logic, no one should be mad if someone's little girl smokes a 3.5 year old 170-class that was agreed upon as a breeder until age 6.

Obviously it softens the blow, but it does not make it okay. I'd be mad too.

It is a kid and if helps keep her interested then who cares it is hunting the deer could have gotten blue tongue, hit by car or killed in a fight in the next 365 days, I am into management as much or prolly more than the next guy but fighting or getting pissed off about a deer being shot especially a kid, it just aint worth it! Hunting should be enjoyed and deer lease drama sucks, if you don't like it then pack up and leave, but no deer is worth being twisted about, think how thrilled the girl is! If it happened over and over ok I am with you but not gonna loose it over one deer and what might of been, didn't appear to me he was gonna e all that anyway

This ranch is in Howard County Bocephus.

Well said

I understand the frustration, but on our place we make exceptions for the young ones. We have some shoot deer that the rest of us have let walk and we don't expect the father to tell them no. A three year old deer with a nice rack is a monster in the eyes of many folks. On most places, one or two of these deer hitting the ground isn't going to make a difference for next year. Makes it alot easier to deal with if this is known up front though.

Hell, I don't know how many deer I have let go thinking "Man, he will be a monster next year"...I am still waiting on next year for most of them.

Not all minds think the same Chris. I can't say I blame the girl. The mentality of "if it's brown it's down" is still there. I have had hunters that have come out and shoot young deer, both bucks and does.

I'm not sure if they really don't want to understand age or just don't care for it. Heck I have had guys come out and shoot a first yr "fawn"(mule deer), not too far out of spots, and that's no joke.

I guess they feel if they pay for it(hunt) they can shoot whatever they want.

I know you think it stinks but I can't get as worked up over at you because:

1) A man's daughter took the deer and it almost certainly means more to her than it ever could to you-look at that smile. Any way you try to spin it you are begrudging her that deer and that just doesn't feel right to me; and

2) If you don't have agreements in writing stuff like this happens on every lease where you are not the owner. Unless you have some sort of contract all the other guy has to say is:"Sorry,I changed my mind." That's just the chance you take.He was apparently within his rights so it's just some guy you are apparently not close friends with changing his mind. It happens. I have had similar stuff happen many times on leased land.

It's a deer. There will be others.

You can't force others to adhere to strict management if they don't want to. So you have to seek out and find other like minded hunters who are as committed to it as you. Those ranches/leases are out there, you just have to find them. Most leases and hunters are not that committed and there's nothing you can do to change it.

You might consider forming your own lease where you can be the manager and set the rules along with the consequences for rules violations. Don't let it eat you up. Just remind yourself that it's just a deer and there will be others in the future.

That is a great photo. That young lady will value the trophy years from now. Next time you see her she will beem with pride and retell the complete scenario(sp?) second to second.

I know your mad but do not spoil it for her. Take her Father aside if you feel the need. Explain your view. In th end the young lady is a happy hunter. Who knows but maybe she will recruit some of her classmates to hunting.

Just my

I know what everybody is saying about it being a young hunter and especially a female but to me it does not change the fact that they had talked about letting him walk and like it or not they made a gentleman's agreement. It's 0% her fault but her father is a sorry s.o.b. for breaking his word and thats the point of the original thread (I believe)not that she or any other youth in particular took it. To me...it would have been a non situation if he would have gone about it the RIGHT WAY. "Hey, my daughter really likes that buck and she's never harvested anything that nice and she would like to take it." enough said...done deal! But it sounds like he blew smoke up his arse until he saw that buck again. You can't tell me that a good man of his word would have really done what this guy had done. I know the arguements about....well, you just can't trust anybody these days just let it go and at least it was a young girl because that gets old real quick. That's a back door and he showed no character in my book. The only real thing I can say is it happened and at least it was with what appears to be a very grateful young woman but take her fathers word for what he has shown it to be. Good luck on this place or a new one.

p.s. I do agree that you should do whatever possible not to ruin the moment for this young lady as it was not her doing.

X1000

Don't think you can't have something happen to you and you are on the other end......it will bite you in the arse! Let it go and be happy for the young lady te deer is dead!

Wow, just wow, what is being said here and there. I believe instead of airing this out here in a public forum, and possibly this young lady will read it, you all will have spoiled the thrill of the hunt for her.

You should have just spoken with the father, and if you don't like what he tells you, pack up and leave after the season. No need to get all the "public" involved in this matter and get them riled up. I'm sure WE were all young once, and what is a trophy in one's mind is not in another.

Congrats to the young lady and her father. Memories made that will last a lifetime.

Just remember, its better to be ticked off than ticked on.

And with that said, what's done is done.....

I can see both sides, and I would also be angry after an agreement was made, but you have to let some things go, or they will just continue to fester and eat away at you.

You can't undo what was done, but I would sure sit down and have a heart to heart talk with the middleman and explain your feelings and betrayal of trust.

It may be then that you get it off your chest and decide parting ways is the best or either let this one slide.

It's up to you now!

I also agree that airing it out here before talking to party involved and expressing your feelings and concerns to him persoanlly is stooping to his level as well.