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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2797837
11/30/11 08:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100
dgilbert
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100 |
Spikes are such a problem they now have their own tag. You got to love them AR's.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: dgilbert]
#2797849
11/30/11 08:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
A spike's antlers restrict him from living long a long life thanks to ARs!
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2797875
11/30/11 08:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,154
KWood_TSU
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,154 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties?
Amat Victoria Curam - Victory Loves Preparation
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: KWood_TSU]
#2797909
11/30/11 08:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,234
Rustler
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,234 |
To allow more hunting opportunity while minimizing the risk of high-grading. That's what they say anyway.
Spikes have next to zero to do with high grading in an AR county though.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: KWood_TSU]
#2797915
11/30/11 08:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 359
RocksAndKittens
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 359 |
I too would like to know why spikes are legal if the "general consensus" from biologists is that they are young deer. That seems to be what most articles or research points to, but of course there are other articles that point to other results as well. I haven't yet hunted long enough in Nac. county to have an opinion on ARs yet, but it seems to me like a flat 1 buck bag limit would be better than allowing two bucks where the one that is most likely to be (legally) taken is under 3 years, and on average 1.5 years. I say most likely to be taken because, on my family's land at least, the policy is all spikes are culls, and you only pass on a spike if a legal 8 pointer or bigger is with him...
If it looks good, eat it.
Rocks are cool, also kittens.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: RocksAndKittens]
#2797922
11/30/11 08:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100
dgilbert
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100 |
They are trying to give ya something that they took something else away!
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: KWood_TSU]
#2797941
11/30/11 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500
Bill Waldschmidt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? To give people something to shoot at. Yes, they are young deer. But they are inferior young deer. Shooting a spike is better than shooting a 1.5yr old 8 pointer
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: KWood_TSU]
#2797974
11/30/11 09:05 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,211 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? Because the wildlife biologists that study deer for a living have concluded that shooting ALL spikes is a necessary part of good whitetail herd management! Period.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2797999
11/30/11 09:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? To give people something to shoot at. Yes, they are young deer. But they are inferior young deer. Shooting a spike is better than shooting a 1.5yr old 8 pointer I have to ask other than letting him grow up to be a wall hanger, why that is? Is it really all about the antlers then? I know I'll get blasted for asking though.
Last edited by Curly; 11/30/11 09:15 PM.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2798010
11/30/11 09:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500
Bill Waldschmidt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? To give people something to shoot at. Yes, they are young deer. But they are inferior young deer. Shooting a spike is better than shooting a 1.5yr old 8 pointer I have to ask other than letting him grow up to be a wall hanger, why that is? Is it really all about the antlers then? I know I'll get blasted for asking though. Probably. Maybe killing a 1.5yr old spike will save a 2.5 yr old deer? Also will let someone that doesn't want to shoot the first buck over 13" they see a chance to shoot a deer. Hence, avoiding high grading. I want to shoot a deer, I see a spike and a decent legal 8 pointer. I can shoot the spike to put meat in the freezer if the 8 pointer is not the buck I'm looking for. Not everyone wants to fill all of their tags every year. The spike rule gives people a chance to put an "inferior" deer in the freezer if they don't see the trophy buck they're after and don't get the chance to shoot a doe.
Last edited by Bill Waldschmidt; 11/30/11 09:20 PM.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2798013
11/30/11 09:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
What's sad is, before the AR stuff, I bet a lot more spikes were allowed to live because a lot of hunters didn't want to use their one and only buck tag on it.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2798015
11/30/11 09:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500
Bill Waldschmidt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500 |
What's sad is, before the AR stuff, I bet a lot more spikes were allowed to live because a lot of hunters didn't want to use their one and only buck tag on it. But was that at the expense of a lot of 1.5 yr old 6 and 8 pointers?
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2798023
11/30/11 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500
Bill Waldschmidt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 500 |
My only point was that it gives the discriminating hunter a choice. Did the idea probably backfire and now lead to a lot of hunters killing 2 spikes a year? Yes, probably.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2798079
11/30/11 09:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 215
Randallc
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 215 |
I read a study a couple of years ago that made a lot of since to me; the theory is that there are two types of deer. Good deer and inferior deer, and three types of growing seasons for racks. Great nutrition, average nutrition and bad nutrition. Their study found that in great years, both types of deer could grow good racks. In average years the the good deer grew good racks and the inferior deer were average to below average. In bad years (such as this year) the good deer still had good racks and the inferior deer were below average and spikes. Their idea was that below average nutrition years are great years to cull your herds, because it is easier to pick out the outstanding racks.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: RICK O'SHAY]
#2798089
11/30/11 09:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124
LandPirate
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124 |
BTW, you cannot age a spike (or any other buck for that matter) by the length (or size) of his anters. I like the way you say that "you can't age one by his antlers" (meaning me or anyone else)... how would you know WHAT I can do??? I may be the worlds leading expert and may be able to age them by smell, you don't know. I know what you are saying BUT I can show you two 8 pt racks (euros) and one of them I will assure you, you'll say something like, "Uoooo that was a YOUNG deer... ya'll shouldn't have shot him!" I can also show you a long horn spike, that if you have any sense at all you would know, by his antlers , that he's older than 6 or 8 months. Rick, That was not targeted specifically at YOU. Perhaps poor wording on my part. I meant and should have said, "One cannot age deer by their antlers alone". Sorry if it appeared that I was attacking you specifically. That was not my intent. ...and you are correct in that I do not know what you can or cannot do. But if you can age deer by the way they smell, I'd like to see that. Can I borrow you and your nose sometime. I've heard all of the old timers, for years, talk about shooting "old stag spikes". They're referring to bucks with 6"+ spikes and assume by the length that they must be older. It simply ain't true. Yes, some are older but most are yearlings. Again, I was only trying to make a point, not a personal attack on you.
Mike Buda, Tx Hunt near Freer
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Randallc]
#2798090
11/30/11 09:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 20,988
BuckRage
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 20,988 |
I read a study a couple of years ago that made a lot of since to me; the theory is that there are two types of deer. Good deer and inferior deer, and three types of growing seasons for racks. Great nutrition, average nutrition and bad nutrition. Their study found that in great years, both types of deer could grow good racks. In average years the the good deer grew good racks and the inferior deer were average to below average. In bad years (such as this year) the good deer still had good racks and the inferior deer were below average and spikes. Their idea was that below average nutrition years are great years to cull your herds, because it is easier to pick out the outstanding racks. and we all like outstanding racks!
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: skinnerback]
#2798101
11/30/11 09:55 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216
kyle1974
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216 |
I shot a 2.5 year old spike last weekend. There is a spike study on a place I hunt, but that is looking at 1 year old spikes. a lot of them catch up by the age of 3, but the genetics are more controlled than your average place.
Last edited by kyle1974; 11/30/11 09:56 PM.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2798133
11/30/11 10:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? To give people something to shoot at. Yes, they are young deer. But they are inferior young deer. Shooting a spike is better than shooting a 1.5yr old 8 pointer I have to ask other than letting him grow up to be a wall hanger, why that is? Is it really all about the antlers then? I know I'll get blasted for asking though. its to offset all the extra doe days in an attempt to balance the herd sex ratios. Folks get to kill more deer and those looking to manage can do so by harvesting an inferior buck to take a mouth out of their herd. Because it makes sense that if you are having problems finding bucks in general then you need to cull what little bucks you have and slaughter does.
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: BuckRage]
#2798157
11/30/11 10:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 215
Randallc
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 215 |
I read a study a couple of years ago that made a lot of since to me; the theory is that there are two types of deer. Good deer and inferior deer, and three types of growing seasons for racks. Great nutrition, average nutrition and bad nutrition. Their study found that in great years, both types of deer could grow good racks. In average years the the good deer grew good racks and the inferior deer were average to below average. In bad years (such as this year) the good deer still had good racks and the inferior deer were below average and spikes. Their idea was that below average nutrition years are great years to cull your herds, because it is easier to pick out the outstanding racks. and we all like outstanding racks!
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2798165
11/30/11 10:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,882
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,882 |
I don't shoot spikes but would rather my neibhor take that then a 2.5 year old multi branched deer.. but Im luck and don't have to worry about either.
If I could just find a way to get them to hold off on 4.5 year old deer now
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#2798170
11/30/11 10:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
I don't shoot spikes but would rather my neibhor take that then a 2.5 year old multi branched deer.. but Im luck and don't have to worry about either.
If I could just find a way to get them to hold off on 4.5 year old deer now Buck dictator.....
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Curly]
#2798279
11/30/11 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 161
ccrook
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 161 |
I have 2.5 y/o spike in front of me now. Really thinking he should go.
IAFF Local 4511
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: ccrook]
#2798350
11/30/11 11:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,234
Rustler
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,234 |
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: ccrook]
#2798374
11/30/11 11:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 633
bassackwards dav
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 633 |
I like to consider the buck to doe ratio before taking spikes as culls and I buy into the good nutrition bad nutrition theory on number of spikes in a given herd in respect to the range conditions. But experienced hunter that can guess age by body configuration should be able to take old spike out.
bassackwards dav
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Re: Spikes?
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#2798442
11/30/11 11:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,154
KWood_TSU
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,154 |
Just a question, but who here really knows why you're allowed a spike in AR counties? To give people something to shoot at. That is a buckYes, they are young deer. But they are inferior young deer. Shooting a spike is better than shooting a 1.5yr old 8 pointer FIFY
Amat Victoria Curam - Victory Loves Preparation
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