So it is poaching to process your own deer, and not have it "counted" in the age structure survey at the local processor????

Is it also poaching when you take it to the taxi, since it is not included in the "age structure" count ??

Is it also poaching if the GW isn't at your processor when you drop your deer off and therefore not included in the "age structure count"

That's a new one from the pro-AR arguement...I'll give ya that !!!

I hear lots of stories aout folks breaking under 13" antlers in the field to make one "unbranched antler" or, as mentioned above, "field processing" the deer, attaching a doe head or teats to under 13" buck meat, and a number of other things to avoid getting a ticket for taking that 12.9" deer. I have even heard of people just leaving the deer lie or dragging it off, hiding it, and leaving it for the buzzards.

The more outrageous the law, the more outrageous the ways become to break it.

The number of deer shot and processed in the field or just left in the field due to not meeting ARs is nowhere near the number that were shot at age 1.5 just for the sake of pulling the trigger pre-ARs.

That's not a legitimate argument.

Not an argument, simply an observation. People are now doing these things because of the ARs. Before the ARs, they didn't do those things, simply because there were no ARs to follow.

I hunt in two AR counties about 150 miles apart. One place is 500 acres surrounded by smaller properties, the other is 13,000 acres surrounded by other large properties.

On the larger ranch, AR's make no difference. The bucks look the same today that they did 10 years ago. However, on the smaller property (which is actually very large for the area it's in) AR's have made things dramatically worse.

The issue on the smaller property is that with even smaller neighbors, they are shooting the first "legal" buck they see. They've been doing this for 4 seasons now and the results are pretty obvious.

In the 10 years prior to AR's, I typically took at least one "management" type of buck off this place every year and had others do the same. The only "big" bucks we would kill were very mature. Of course, that resulted in a very low harvest of "trophy's" but it was worth it. I'm an admitted horn hunter and don't apologize for it.

The issue I have is "bad" neighbors, but I didn't consider them to be "bad" before AR's. They are only "bad" now because they are following the law and takign young legal bucks when in the past they would have been perfectly happy with any buck.

Yeah, I could move on. Problem is, we've owned this land for over 150 years and it's a special place to me. With land prices extremely high in the area, the idea of buying the neighbors is not a reality. High fencing could be done, but I don't really want to do that and definitely don't want to pay for it.

AR's are like most other laws in that they don't really solve the larger problems and don't work uniformly across a state or even a county. With deer numbers increasing across the state every year, I think numbers management is going to become much more important than antler management. Personally, I hope to see some changes to the AR's.

It's a shame an ignorant law can make outlaws out of good people. I'm sure there are honest hunters out there who just knew they shot a legal buck only to find out it wasn't simply paniced, thinking about all the hell and fines that would come down on them, fines they don't have the money to pay, probably felt they had no choice but leave a perfectly good deer for the scavengers. Until it happens to someone, who really knows what he or she would do in that situation. It's easy to talk smack all day long about someone who did that when it didn't happen to you. I pray it never happens to me.

back PHishTX!!!

+1

Neither is yours.

Got a link to the data that shows the pre AR 1.5 year old numbers being killed versus the post AR's numbers being killed then left to rot or processed in the field.
Nope, didn't think so.
Just like the age structure data used to start this mess, conjecture using skewed data.

I'd bet the amount of young bucks being killed has increased due to AR's, pre AR it was 1 buck and done, post AR 2 spikes or 1 spike and one 13"+.

With the majority of spikes being young bucks it doesn't much to figure out more young-uns are getting killed post AR.

Less stressful to just shot does are hunt in a county without Antler Restrictions.

Lots of outfitters in west texas without AR's.

I don't have a link, but they had actual counts on the number of deer that were coming in at age 1.5 pre-AR and it was really, really high. You have zero hard evidence that a ton of deer are being left in the field or being field processed to avoid the rule.

But it is totally legit that "you'd bet the amount of young bucks being killed increased".

I guess it must be so.

The evidence would be a very high percentage of arrest and convictions, and if it were so much a problem there would be more reported by fellow hunters and landowner and don't think for a second old Bob won't turn you in.

Also the Wardens check it out when they see a large number of buzzards in an area, and I know this first hand.

They got high numbers cuz they counted at places those deer are normally taken.

What would their numbers have been if they had gone to a taxidermist to do their surveys?

H ell AT LEAST INCLUDE SOME of those in their data !!!
But that would have thrown their argument off I guess.

They didn't want accurate data or they would have TRIED to get it !!!

Nobody mounts 1.5 year-old teeny bucks, so a taxidermist is the last place they should have done the count.

Can someone walk me through the conspiracy theory explaining why you believe TPWD just decided to implement ARs to screw everyone? What motivation would they have to do that?

Regardless, they worked wonders in my county, so I love them and hope they're permanent.

We just finished up our 10 day gun season up here in Wisconsin. I've made the decision after pulling into the registration station/processing center/gas station/store closest to the hunting cabin and saw a parking lot full of 1 1/2 year old does and fork bucks. It hurt to see nothing but small deer laying there. I will no longer deer hunt in Wisconsin after this late archery season(Since I already have my permit) if for some crazy reason the move to Texas this fall doesn't happen.

I would rather skip hunting ever other year and put that money towards a hunt in MO, IA, KS or another big deer state.

The state has hired Dr Deer to help get politics out of the states deer management. For my very disgruntled hunter friends in this state I pray he gives WI a AR and limits the does harvest. Out of the 40-50 hunters I know as friends or talk to almost daily for work, 2 got what anyone would consider a mature deer. The rest either saw no deer(even though we've been told the deer population is at its highest since the 1970's) or saw small bucks they passed on only to hear a gun shot and see it att he processor later.

Now with all that said I do not think that you can regluate a state the size of Texas with a single rule. The state should be divided into "zones" and there should be a tolerance before tickets are issued, it doesn't makes sense to give a hunter a ticket for a 12 3/4" deer.

I'd bet folks have learned to be quiet and claim lots of misses. Wouldn't surprise me if there are heads hanging in secluded spots all over ETX, bc the wardens are stretched thin and they can't even cover a fraction of the land. Seismo crews in our area said they found quite a few while laying cables.

Again, the problemo is East Texas. Not ARs.

It wasn't broke in the first place. Imaginary fix to a problem that didn't exsist.

You are the one making completely erroneous claims, re read your own post.
Where is the data to back up your statement.

It's okay, we all already know.
The data doesn't exist, no one has any data or even a clue that would back your assertion that more young bucks were killed prior to AR's as opposed to post AR's.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_lf_w7000_1680_05_11.pdf

There is some of the said data from the original Pineywoods AR counties. See pgs 2 and 3.

You guys choose for yourselves what to believe...

It's a good problem to have.

They didn't want the "older" deer from taxi shops to skew their agenda !!!