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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Deer management question
#2791904
11/29/11 02:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 64
adafire726
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 64 |
I have a 1000 acre lease in southern Oklahoma. We have had this lease for quite a while. We have never done "management" hunts for anyone, just killed what we are allowed (6 bucks total). This year it seems that all the bucks we are seeing are 8's. Does it help to take the 8's and below off or are the genetics too deep to make any difference? I was thinking about selling some management hunts next year which would include an 8 point or lower and a doe.
Last edited by adafire726; 11/29/11 02:29 AM.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: adafire726]
#2791917
11/29/11 02:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,430
Bulldog4949
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,430 |
I am not an expert. But an 8 point that is 4.5 yr old or older should be taken. Most people like to have their 4.5+ at least 9-10 pts or bigger.
Just depends on your land and caliber of deer around in Oklahoma. Your land, your call.
Good luck in your adventure.
JB European Mounts
Professional Skull Cleaning
(806) 683-3739
jbeuropeanmounts@yahoo.com
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: adafire726]
#2791935
11/29/11 02:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,822
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,822 |
Free range right??? You aint going to change the genetics by harvesting those deer. Those genetics were likely in place long before you or me were ever put on this earth.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: JCB]
#2791953
11/29/11 02:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 64
adafire726
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 64 |
Yes, it is free range. I figure it is what it is. I have taken some nice 10 points off this place that were mature (41/2 to 71/2). I guess it is just not my year.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: adafire726]
#2792003
11/29/11 02:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,430
Bulldog4949
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,430 |
I was talking with our biologist Thanksgiving day. I was explaining to him I was not seeing many if ANY 5.5 yr old deer. He said we had a partial drought in 2006 and this has caused a decline in mature deer for this year.
Take it for what its worth. But sounds logical to me.
JB European Mounts
Professional Skull Cleaning
(806) 683-3739
jbeuropeanmounts@yahoo.com
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: Bulldog4949]
#2792377
11/29/11 04:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 127
LifetimeLadyHunter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 127 |
We had a buck who was a 10 point for the first time in 2008 at age 5.5. The past two seasons and this year he was only a 9 point and his G2 was 1" shorter this year on the left side than his shed from last year. I believe it is the drought. Most of the water sources have dried up and there are too many cattle and hogs on the place (free range, undivided property with quite a few different owners).
This buck was shot opening weekend since we believe he had reached his potential in the current environment. Last year we saw some small 10s, but have seen nothing larger than 8s this season besides this 9 point buck. We have two 8s that we think are 4.5 years old this year, but we are giving them one more year to become 10s because of the current environment and the fact the the former 10 point didn't become one until he was 5.5 years old. If they aren't 10s next season, we will harvest them.
This is a different year for sure.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: LifetimeLadyHunter]
#2792562
11/29/11 05:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16
springfield
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16 |
Id leave it to mother nature
Ben Franklin supported the 21 amendment. Was he wrong? Hes my hero. Creator of America
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: springfield]
#2793092
11/29/11 03:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 70
justbreezin
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 70 |
Here are a couple things that I have noticed over the years that I believe have helped us out.
First question is do you feed year round, Protein? If not, I would recommend it. And I would make sure I fed starting right after the season. The reason is your doe population, assuming that at this time of year, they are bred. If a bred doe is healthy and gives birth to a healthy fawn, chances are they will be better off. Also, while this doe is nursing in the spring, they need all the nutrients they can get. We do all we can do provide that for them.
Secondly, do you know right now your doe to buck ratio? If not, I would make that might goal asap. Having a ratio that is really out of whack can really alter the antler growth of your mature bucks. It sounds silly, but it is true. They are eating the food sources too.
And lastly, you have to eliminate the cull bucks. The 3.5 yr old spikes, the 4.5 yr old 6 points, etc. And to be able to do this, you have to know they are there. We use game cameras year round to help us determine what needs harvesting in a given year.
Hope this helps.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: JCB]
#2793135
11/29/11 03:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
Free range right??? You aint going to change the genetics by harvesting those deer. Those genetics were likely in place long before you or me were ever put on this earth. You can't change the genetics of A deer, but you can change the dynamics of the herd. Nature does this by natural selection, management of the herd does it by specific selection. Let's see if my logice makes since. If you take every 8 pointer you see, you are going to reduce the overall number of 8 pointers on your place. If you reduce the overall number of 8 pointers on your place, you are going to reduce the number of 8 pointers that are breeding. If you reduce the number of 8 pointers that are breeding, you are going to reduce the number of fawns that are born with that genetic trait. If you have less 8 pointers breeding, the deer with 9+ points will do more breeding. If more doe are bred by deer with 9+ points, then there is a greater chance that this genetic trait will be passed on. IMO, you can't change the genetics of the herd, but you can manage the genetics with certain limitations. If this was actually the case and you couldn't, why do so many ranches see a difference in antler size after implementing a management plan? I agree that there is alot more that goes into managing a herd than specific selection of bucks, but I do believe you can make a difference by managing the herd. My 
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: txshntr]
#2794072
11/29/11 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498
Erathkid
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498 |
Not trying to stir the pot...Maybe your not seeing them because they're not there. 6 bucks off 1000 acres per year does not seem sustainable for continued trophy success.
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: txshntr]
#2795476
11/30/11 02:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099 |
Free range right??? You aint going to change the genetics by harvesting those deer. Those genetics were likely in place long before you or me were ever put on this earth. You can't change the genetics of A deer, but you can change the dynamics of the herd. Nature does this by natural selection, management of the herd does it by specific selection. Let's see if my logice makes since. If you take every 8 pointer you see, you are going to reduce the overall number of 8 pointers on your place. If you reduce the overall number of 8 pointers on your place, you are going to reduce the number of 8 pointers that are breeding. If you reduce the number of 8 pointers that are breeding, you are going to reduce the number of fawns that are born with that genetic trait. If you have less 8 pointers breeding, the deer with 9+ points will do more breeding. If more doe are bred by deer with 9+ points, then there is a greater chance that this genetic trait will be passed on. IMO, you can't change the genetics of the herd, but you can manage the genetics with certain limitations. If this was actually the case and you couldn't, why do so many ranches see a difference in antler size after implementing a management plan? I agree that there is alot more that goes into managing a herd than specific selection of bucks, but I do believe you can make a difference by managing the herd. My Nope you just see less 8 pts(at time of depth) make it to maturity..that is all Ever seen a ranch that doesn't have 8pts ? You cant get rid of them..you can only decide which ones you want to feed. Even if in theory you could how many bucks would it take year in year out to eliminate the 8pt and keep it from being prominent again...b/cit won't ever dissappear. Your at cc then take out the bottom end per age class..but know your not eliminating a genetic your just make sure those deer aren't being feed or competing for food against your top end
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: Erathkid]
#2795485
11/30/11 02:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,099 |
Not trying to stir the pot...Maybe your not seeing them because they're not there. 6 bucks off 1000 acres per year does not seem sustainable for continued trophy success. Especially in low deer density area like western and southwest Oklahoma
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#2795494
11/30/11 02:26 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
Not trying to stir the pot...Maybe your not seeing them because they're not there. 6 bucks off 1000 acres per year does not seem sustainable for continued trophy success. Especially in low deer density area like western and southwest Oklahoma X1000
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Re: Deer management question
[Re: BMD]
#2796071
11/30/11 05:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
@Bobo
Not going to quote the previous threads because they are too long.
I agree that just taking 8's will not eliminate all 8 pointers from the herd, but can't see how it would not reduce the number. As you said in the other post, the deer density is low, therefore you would not have to take as many to make a difference. I also agree that taking the bottom of each age class is a sound management plan, but I can't figure out the fallacy of the logic of the 8 point theory.
Take a high fence pen. Put 50 eight pointers in one pen and 50 ten pointers in another. Year after year, start eliminating the 8 pointers from the ten point pen and shoot the ten pointers in the eight point pen. What will the herd look like in each pen after 10 years?
I may be way off, and probably am, but I would like to hear the reasoning of why it wouldn't work. In my head, I am seeing as being the same theory as taking 100 rabbits of black, white and brown. Keep shooting the black and white rabbits and you will end up with brown rabbits. Nature has perfected this in different areas. Are antlers completely different genetically than coat colors?
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