Okay, so when my dad went hunting Saturday morning he said he saw a pretty old 7 point with lots of mass, but he had a very tall, narrow rack. According to antler restrictions this deer was illegal but he was old. This got me pondering.

Since these older bucks that are not 13" wide are being left to breed every year, won't that lead to the passing of their narrow racked genes to where a good part of the population has this problem? I doubt it will be that bad since there are nice bucks out there that don't get killed and continue to breed, but I'm just curious. How does this help produce more bucks with wider spreads when the narrow racked bucks are left to propagate and perhaps in larger numbers?

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I keep thinking about it and then I think of how stupid antler restrictions can be. Sure, shoot an older buck and not a young one, but why leave these guys in the gene pool. Is the 13" rule based on research studies?

WOW!

Vern, Phish....where are you????

Rather age and score!

Is he even close to 13? if you have plenty of big bucks also then this one deer wnt make much difference..how old did he think the buck was? if you got good genetics all around you then you dnt have anything to worry about its the areas with a common gene like this that are goin to be more effected by the rule...

Want to clarify that the said buck was not shot. My dad just mentioned that he saw him pass by his stand and was kind of mad that he was too narrow.

There are tons of deer there and big ones! My dad hunts in the Navasota River bottom. He said he saw several 8's that were legal and one huge 8 that was almost black in color with about a 20 inch spread and he couldn't get a good shot at him. Darn.

Well, here is what I found out today. TPWD established this rule so they would quit seeing yearling bucks being brought in. There was also research done on this as well. The counties that have these rules in effect are because that county has more than 60% bucks as yearlings that are brought in each year.

It is also said that the people that don't like the ARs are a very small group statewide, and they(TPWD) can't please everyone. They said it is like a slot limit on deer. So something that needs to be understood by the gripers is that TPWD doesn't want to see bigger antlered deer, but they want a better age structure.

Now you may ask, why are shooting spikes ok. They have that there to entertain people. They said people will get bored not shooting bucks and throw a huge fuss if they can't shoot a buck.

And the bucks that are mature and under 13" also make up a very small part of the population, and that goes with not being able to make everyone happy. They said if you care about it that much, get on the MLD program, because it's not that hard to do.

So all in all, if you are in an AR county, don't get mad at TPWD, but point the blame to the hunters there, because they shoot the first 8 point they see, no matter of age. And aggal06, a doe carries genetics as well bucks, so if a doe fawn is born from a father that had a wide spread and mother too, wouldnt that offset being bred by a narrow buck? I actually don't know the answer to that question, just food for thought. Actually learned a lot about ARs today, and it was pretty neat, so if you have questions, just ask.

The people that like them will support them and the one that don't won't. I hate them for the reason you brought up. But I go by them.

Wow, its interesting to know why they allow spikes to be shot and how the ARs came to be. I saw a spike on Saturday but never had a desire to shoot him because he was the size of a dog :P.

Thanks for the reply!

I knew does contribute too, but I just thought the less than 13 inch bucks might be dirtying up the gene pool somewhat. I'm not sure how antler genetics completely work. Im sure some genes are recessive and some are dominant like with anything else.

I'm just rambling now. I think about weird things like this too much.

And what was the question again???

I told you I ramble! .

take a few extra minutes thanksgiving weekend and go sit at a nearby locker plant and watch what comes in!! Then you'll know exactly why they put in AR's. Even my 16 yr. old just shakes his head when he sees some of the "trophy" bucks brought in.

Thats what we were told. It would make me sick if i saw that over 60% of the deer brought in were yearling bucks. And then to probably sit there and here those same people *itch about not ever seeing a 130" deer. The biologist today said that the average age of the deer brought in to Joshua last weekend was 3.5, and not a single spike was brought in. That's good to hear, but it seems that that is still a young deer, or at least to me it is.

Horns are hard to eat. I want my 4 deer for the freezer.

Not me I'm a horn hunter. They'er good to knaw on when watching college basketball games after deer season.

I woudnt tell the rodents that, because they are high in calcium. Or at least antlers are, idk about horns though.

Good thing i can get milk from the store then, lol.

You have to remember that the people shooting these young bucks are meat hunters - meat hunters that only like the meat when a set of antlers are attached.

If you are not shooting a personal best or a cull then what is the point of shooting a buck - just to call your buddies and tell them you got a 2.5 yr old buck?

In my case, our doe season is only the first 16 days of the season. When i get home from work, i'll have about 3 days of that to hunt. I'll shoot the first 4 deer i see, as long as they're legal. if it's two does and then 2 bucks, great. if it's buck, doe, buck doe, great. if one of those bucks is a 30 pointer, even better, but i'm not out there for horn. Maybe i'm the exception to the rule, but i doubt it.

I think people have lost track of what hunting was for to start with. people diddnt start these traditions for bragging rights, they started them to put food on the table. An episode of Jim Shockey showed it best. He took his Dad and his dad's friend on a deer hunt, they both shot small horned deer, a 4 and a 5 i think, and the guy with the 4 was talking about how he killed the bigger deer. they were talking about body size.


I think AR's are just another way for the state to micro manage. If it's on my place, i should be able to shoot it as long as i have a tag for it. after all, they're my deer, right?

JD - no idea of your situation but 95% of hunters could save money and buy T-bones from the grocery store instead of deer hunting for meat.

tbones dont make as good of a chili, lol.

If i kill 4 deer, i'm out about a hundred bucks between my lic. and corn, so thats 50 cents a pound. add another 100 for the feeder and cam, and i'm up to 1 dollar/pound. i'd rather have a grilled med rare backstrap than a t bone any day too.

I think youre crazy if youd rather have BS over a good steak, but thats just me. Maybe it was because I was raised on steer fed beef though.