Which one makes more sense for home defense / patrol use? With the popularity and easy customization of the AR, light weight, low recoil, extended range, practically limitless ammo capacity with 30 rd mags and quick reloads, it makes more sense for me. I don't know when the last time was that I saw a police car with a shotgun in the rack, they all seem to be moving to M4's or civilian M4gerys. Any LEO's still carry a shotgun for patrol?

If you have any other people living in your house and let a 556/223 loose it will have the energy to kill people across the house.

On the other hand a 2&3/4" load of hevi shot #4 would do a nice job at 20feet but not have the energy for multiple over penetration issues.

I do like cops carrying M4's now and I think its a better choice in non confined areas, but the 12ga for inside homes and bean bag rounds.

There is still an application for both, I would have both in a patrol car. Granted the SBR would be up front the shotgun would definately be in the trunk not at the house in the safe.

I'm sorry deewayne but your info is incorrect and has been proven so in several studies. Here is a little note from Dr. Roberts on the matter.


DocGKR (Doctor GK Roberts):lonewolf21,

I am sorry your agency is not up to date on current wound ballistic facts. As noted before, given the widespread availability of this information for over a decade, I am shockingly surprised to still hear that some LE administrators don't want their personnel to have 5.56 mm patrol rifles because of the "overpenetration" with "high powered assault rifles". In this day and age anyone who is spouting this BS needs to be horsewhipped... Several respected organizations have done wall testing, including the FBI, CHP, and IWBA. In our IWBA and CHP testing, replicas of standard construction interior walls were fabricated using two pieces of 1/2” thick dry wall cut in 12” x 24” segments and mounted four inches apart using 2 x 4” fir studs and 1.5” dry wall screws. Five rounds of each load were first fired into bare gelatin to serve as controls. Then 5 shots of each load were shot through interior wall segments into gelatin blocks placed a set distance behind the intermediate barriers--various distances have been tested, typically ranging from 1 to 10 feet.

Generally, common service caliber JHP bullets failed to expand and had very deep, excessive penetration after passing through the interior wall, due to plugging of the hollow point. With the hollow point plugged, the bullets performed nearly identically to FMJ pistol bullets. The terminal performance of the 12 ga. 00 buckshot and slugs was not altered by passing through interior wall replicas, with penetration and deformation nearly identical with their performance in bare gelatin. Likewise, .308 rounds were not usually effected by the presence of an interior wall intermediate barrier.

With one exception, the majority of the 5.56 mm/.223 loads, including M855 62 gr "green-tip" FMJ, which were fired through interior walls demonstrated either minimal changes in terminal performance compared with bare gelatin or reduced penetration. The major exception were 55 gr M193 style FMJ projectiles which exhibited minimal fragmentation and deformation after first passing through interior wall replicas and hence penetrated deeper than in bare gel. Since all of the 5.56 mm/.223 bullets fired through the interior wall had significantly less penetration than 9 mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles which were fired through an interior wall, stray 5.56 mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures. As such, 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations and crowded urban environments than service caliber handguns or 12 ga. weapons.

Obviously, it is important to keep in mind that purpose built barrier blind 5.56 mm/.223 projectiles, such as the 55 & 62 gr Federal Tactical JSP’s and the Nosler 60 gr Partition, will offer deeper penetration than fragmenting designs and may exit suspects.

I saw similar test on guns and ammo tv. The .223 had the least penetration on the wall test. The 9mm had was the least affected by the walls.

Not saying this isn't true with certain loadings of 5.56, but with loadings meant for a SD situation, it will have less penetration than most pistol loadings.

Wouldn't frangible rounds for the 5.56 be an option for home defense without chance of over penetration?

clharr...

Notice that I didnt mention using a 700gr slug that could kill a moose or using a load of buck that would be the equal of firing 9 .38cal bullets at the same time. I will also bet that the 12ga slugs and buckshot used in that test were plated and thus will increase there ability to penetrate.

Also you will notice they mention the FMJ 556 rounds penetrated deeper, than other rounds used (probably law enforcement specific rounds). With murphys law holding true the very night the boogy man comes in will be the same time you have FMJ loaded in your M4 and from what I have seen they are more often than not what people keep loaded in there AR's laying around the house

If I have to fire a shot in my house I want one projectile to go exactly where I send it, not 9, 12, or 25 going sorta kinda where I send it.

I keep mine loaded with 40 gr VMAX's for interior use.

We are still carrying both, some agencies have policies that dictate what weapon can be deployeed on different calls. My previous agency I worked for had a policy that only one M4 could be deployed by a patrol officer if multiple officers were on scene. It also stated that if a patrol officer arrived first already deployed his M4 and a supervisor showed up, the supervisor deploys the M4, and the patrol officer must secure his M4 back in his trunk and deploy his shotgun. WTF? My current agency has no real policy other than if you can qualify with it you can carry it and use it if the situation dictates. I have both in my car and have deployed both in different situations, I do like it if personel allows, one deploys an M4 and on deployes a shotty...just my opinion.

Just out of curiosity, what are some situations where you'd rather have a shotty?

I have a real nice M4 but if I were in a real shootout in close quarters I would rather have my Mossberg Persuader loaded with 8 rds of 00 buck. I am a good shot with a rifle and pistol but with the adrenaline flowing and being shot at then I bet that our benchrest accuracy would go to chit!!

if i have too im gonna use my tactical 12 ga especially after dark or get yourself a judge 4.10 pistol

Buckshot is NICE but Slugs are AWESOME!

You still have to aim a shotty, especially at close range. My buddy said his department switched to #4 buck because of low percentages of hits using 00 precisely because officers weren't aiming.

Shotgun

I have both sitting next to me in the car. For the shotgun it is loaded with buck shot but we carry slugs on the stock.

I would say the majority of the time I grab the Shotgun over the AR. I would say most grab the AR first.

I personally think which will be the best choice at each call and what the range and scenario is.

Alot of LEO's are not gun people and choose the AR because it is the koolaid. Alot of dove hunters shoot more in an hour than alot of leo have ever shot.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I wouldve put my life behind my Bravo Company AR (and i will once i get another...which i will).

Loaded correctly, you cant really go wrong with either, assuming you are proficient in opperating each weapon. Lets put it this way, i have a feeling WHO is holding the weapon has more relevance, than WHAT the weapon is or is not.

For home defense or close quarters defense you just can't beat a shotgun. You can get a mossberg 500 and add any little do-dad or gadget you want on it. I keep mine loaded with a two 00 buck with 3 slugs behind it combo.

Not only is it home defense but also goes with me on camping trips and recovering hogs when I have to track them through the brush after I shoot them with my bow. It is the most versatile weapon out there.

I wouldn't even think of using my AR for home defense unless I had to. It's really just a suped up hunting tool and even when I bought it self defense wasn't even on my mind. I can see why a LEO would need one for that, but for the average Joe a shotgun with slugs or buckshot in the tube just can't be beat.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink....

Keeping it real and not some exaggerated sense of self and one's imaginative super abilities concerning home defense with a rifle.

Shotgun trumps rifle

Shotgun loaded with buckshot. Slugs are a no-go for me for fear of over-penetration. I have an AR with a loaded mag in the closet, but don't see myself ever being in a situation where 8 rounds of buckshot wouldn't be sufficient.

.357 and 10ga. w/ buckshot at the house and .45 and an AK or SBR AR in the truck. thats what I do.

I prefer a a pistol and a carbine for home defense. When I lived on the farm I always had a shotgun handy. The shotgun was better for shooting skunks and coons and such.