I want some opinions on high fence operations if you own one don�t be offended. High fence operations and breeders are in the long run are going to kill the hunting industry. I just feel that some hunters are lazy and it is easer to buy a big buck on high fence operation than to truly hunt. The obsession with horn just makes me sick that a person will pay $20,000 to 100,000 to kill a 200 class buck. Some high fence operation are small less than a 300 acres and have nothing to eat due to the simple fact that there is 100 deer on the property and they have to dart them and cut the horns off so they wont kill each other it is just killing the our beloved hunting industry. Hunting has turned into killing for horn more than taking your son hunting or wife and turned bonding moments into cash flow for breeders.
Now there are exceptions to the rule with high fences if a place has a fair amount of land fenced and the deer truly are free to move about in 1000+ acres its more of a hunt, the deer really have a chance to survive and die of old age rather than a man going in to section of land a rattling a bucket and tells the person to shoot that buck. I just don�t get the mentality of these people. Now exotic ranch�s please put fences up I want my grand children to be able to hunt whitetails and not have the current problem with feral hogs now with exotics.

There just has to be a stopping point in the hunting industry. The people that spend lots of time in the woods and truly hunt for years just to get a chance to harvest a deer of a life time passing on traditions to friends and family you are the true hunters. True hunters love and respect the wildlife they hunt, not worrying about filling there pockets with money.

I'll let this go for awhile, but you started out on the wrong foot, jasonrif.

1st - present some facts that HF will kill the industry, stats, graphs or some such.

2nd - don't suppose anything in a public forum unless you expect to get some flack.

3rd - get ready to rumble...


Y'all keep it as clean as possible...

do we have to go thru this again?

Jason, why not just do a search on high fences, you should get plenty of reading time. Sounds like to me you have already made up your mind...so what's the point?

Hmmm. Never seen this topic come up on here before.

Basically this is gonna end up like this, some people say high fences suck others say they are awesome, thread gets locked the end. Thats it in a nut shell anyways.

O'boy another high fence topic, its been a couple of days, I'm some NEW information will come out on this one.

It is all about us greedy landowners.

Proud to be a greedy landowner, please turn out the lights and close the gate on the way out.

Well I think there's just to much land in Texas for this to ever become too big of a issue. One thing id forsure that hunting isnt going to ever become cheaper and land is going to go down in price. So buy it while you can, because its only going up!

He is passionate about this and his post should not be offensive, or it would seem that way to me. I think his general concerns are right on target but he's not going to sway the high fenced crowd.

Landowners can do whatever they want with their property. It's their property! However, the high fences being erected are not doing anything positive for anyone other than the landowner and hunters whose nests are well-feathered.

I hunted a high fenced place this last weekend. I told myself over the years I would never do it. Well, I did but I won't do it again if I can avoid it.

If every topic had to pass the search engine test
this place would be a ghost forum in 1 day.
The guy has an opinion and he typed it. If another
guy don't want to read or type about it they don't
have to.

Just to stay on topic, I wouldn't say I'm
on the fence on the subject as there are
too many variables to claim they're all in
the same bed. Will HF be the demise of hunting?
I believe specifically antler envy and trophy management
are more likely culprits.

PK

... So buy it while you can, because its only going up!

And God isn't making any more of it!!!

i'll load up on the popcorn for this one

Maggie..I need extra butter on mine!

The good thing about high-fences is that they keep animals out just as good as they keep 'em in. So everyone should be happy.

Jasonrif, I can see your point about some of the 'too small' places, but what is too small??? I've seen 300 acres places that would be way harder to kill a trophy deer in then some 2,000 acre places. That's the problem, where do you draw the line and how do you moderate and control it?

I'll promise you this much, on the place I'm on (3,500 acres), there are 8 mature bucks that die of old age for every 1 that is harvested. We let a ton of 4.5 & 5.5 year olds go every year only to never see them again or if you do see them it is for a split second and not long enough to recognize them and get on them!

I do have a problem with any place that turns out a pen raised deer into a pasture and lets somebody kill him. It's not for me and I wouldn't have any part in it, either from the guiding or the hunters side of the fence.

As far as this killing hunting as a whole, I don't see it as you do. I know of one place that is only 400 acres or so and has been under fence for 25+ years and has never introduced outside genes to the enclosed herd yet today, they have far less spikes and trash bucks then they've ever had. So I don't believe for a second that inbreeding is a concern.

As far as the pricing of deer goes for package hunts, you can get 25% - 50% more for a 170 on a low fence ranch then you can for a high fence! So that in itself blows the money theory straight out of the water. Bottom line is that it is supply and demand. I also believe that you'll see in the future where the 'middle of the road bucks' will begin dropping in price. As long as the ecomony is good, the upper end trophy bucks that continually reach higher scores will always demand top dollar.

In closing I'll just say that the deer in Texas (bucks) are getting better every year. This is because of the wide spread management both on high fence and low fence ranches throughout the state. 10 years ago when a 170" deer was brought into a contest there would be a huge croud of people there within a few minutes to look at the deer. Now, it takes a 200" deer to get that kind of response. I look at it this way. If the quality keep rising the next few years maybe us working stiffs will be able to afford to go after a deer that scores in the 150s or 160s because it will be the same price as todays 120" management deer!

Here is a seasoning mix for the popcorn

All measurements are in teaspoons
2 paprika
1 salt
2 chili powder
1 cumin
1 black pepper
1 garlic powder
2 onion powder
1 cayenne pepper powder

Mix all ingredients and store in an airtight container, use sparingly unless you are used to the cayenne pepper.

You can love them, hate them, don't care, high fence are here to stay and there is going to be alot more to come. A land owner can do what ever he wants with his land, period. Get use to it, deal with it, quit hunting, this problem (as some look it) is not going away. Hey, I think I brought up something new here.

I think hunters against hunters will kill any traditions before a fence will. If it is legal, go hunt. If I don't agree with that type of hunting, I won't do it.

After re-reading the original post, I think
jasonrif point is not that HUNTING will cease
to exist, just the TRADITIONAL ways and means.
No doubt, tradition is different from one person
to the next so it would be difficult to quantify.
But from what I've read on THF, most would agree.
Hunting ain't what it was and is changing more all
the time. Some folks don't like any of the changes,
some love all of them. Likes been typed, to each
their own.

PK

Jason, if you haven't noticed, the deer hunting industry in Texas has been a going concern for close to 20 years now.

Are you a member or supporter of Texas Trophy Hunters?

Want to find some one to blame?

Start with hunter greed.

Start with TTHA and BuckMasters turning deer hunting into a competetive sport.

From all the signs I am seeing, not only here in Texas but around the country and around the world, high fence hunting preserves/operations/sanctuaries, what ever you want to call them, may ultimately be the only way hunting will be allowed 15 to 20 years down the road if not sooner.

Do I like it, No. Realistically is there anything I can do about it, No.

In an audio tape I have, Peter Hathway Capstick addresses the High Fence issue in Africa.

In African countries, ownership of the game has to be established before it can be hunted.

If the game proves to be Public Property, then it can not be Legally sport hunted. It can be poached out of existance, but not hunted in a manner that will bring income into the local economy.

If it is established that the game is the property of an individual/co-operation/village, due to the fact that said game is contained behind a high fence, then sportsmens dollars are brought into the economy.

As HighTechRedneck pointed out, hunters fighting amongst themselves over such issues are going to end hunting, and in my opinion, will do it faster than PETA and all of the high fences in the world.

A lot of folks agree with you that some of the smaller, mis-managed places, are bad for hunting.

Not all high fence places are small or mis-managed. JMO.

Jasonrif,

Have you ever stepped foot on a high fenced ranch? Hunted one? Like what has already been stated, high fence places are made to keep deer out and not in. A HF ranch already has to shoot a good amount of deer because once the fence is erected, it is usually at or above the carry capacity and the sex ratio is almost always off. This has occured because too many people shoot their bucks and don't shoot does. The fence is erected as a management tool to obtain the proper management goals and objectives. Which is lowering the deer numbers,allowing bucks to reach their full potential in age(which equals larger antlers) and a ratio of 1:1(which is where it would be without hunters).

Yes there are some ranches that go overboard and they definately give all the other ranches a bad name. I have never heard of a high fenced place 300 acres in size using dart guns to cut off antlers???? They do cut off antlers in the breeding pens which are usually 1-2 acres in size.(breeding operation)

As far as tradition goes...nothing has changed from when we were low fenced as compared to being high fenced. We still look forward to opening day of rifle season,even though we have already been rifle hunting for 1 month prior. We still take our kids out and even get new kids involved in the sport. In actuality, they are hunting deer(proper ratio,having mature bucks present etc.) the way it would be 100 years ago. It's not always about antler size,however, that is a byproduct of proper managment.

I have never heard of a ranch stocking exotics on a place which is low fenced???

"There just has to be a stopping point in the hunting industry. The people that spend lots of time in the woods and truly hunt for years just to get a chance to harvest a deer of a life time passing on traditions to friends and family you are the true hunters. True hunters love and respect the wildlife they hunt, not worrying about filling there pockets with money. "

You speak of "true hunters" loving and respecting the wildlife. I hate to tell ya but most high fenced places love and respect the deer/wildlife more than you. What do you do for the wildlife other than take it? Do you own land? Do you improve the habitat for animals? Do manage the numbers properly?

How much money do you think it cost to buy a piece of property,high fence it,pay for equipment/feed and seed,pay taxes,purchasing the hunting blinds/feeders,providing a place to stay etc.? How much money do you think a ranch really makes? I'm just curious, because you think people are lining their pockets with money. They might try to line them, but there is usally a hole in the bottom of the pocket.

Even though our ranch is high fenced I still have to "hunt" just like you do on a low fenced property. Wind, bedding areas, funnels, draws, feeders etc...nothing changes. As far as traditional hunting, I hunted with a muzzleloader over the weekend, how much more traditional do you need to get? O.K., it was an INLINE (so I cheated a little). As some have stated already, this topic has been discussed and cussed. And along the lines of tradition, no my son will not shoot a 170+ deer for his first deer, heck I may not even let him in a blind his first few times out when he's old enough (that's how I was taught), it will probably be the ground for him and I will have just as much fun doing it with him. It's all a matter of perspective.