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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#2400956
06/30/11 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,096
Elkhunter49
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,096 |
I have no problem with High fences that are open tracts over 200 acres , my complaint is the ranch we hunted next too for 10years in hill country that has 20 acre tracts high fenced and would bring in tagged deer for people to pay XXXXXX amount to shoot. I agree with you Smurf, If someone want's to do this on their land it's their business but it sure is a bad reflection on hunting. Good news is, it's more the exception than the rule. Baker
Last edited by elkhunter49; 06/30/11 10:05 PM.
A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2400974
06/30/11 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,575
Leonardo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,575 |
I don't have any issue with anyone hunting a HF and shooting what they want. If it is legal then it is fine be me. I have hunted inside of them but refuse to see it the way TXTROPHY85 does. I still believe the fence makes a more controlled environment no matter the size. Doesn't mean it is not hard to find and kill the animal you are looking for but it is within that fence.
By the way I will kill behind any fence given the opportunity as long as it isn't "canned."
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: Elkhunter49]
#2400994
06/30/11 10:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 721
Txnrog
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 721 |
Think about it this way.
Effective ground covered by weapon.
Bow: 50yrd range (stretching it) covers a little less than 2 acres of land from their stand (assuming no obstructions)
Rifle: 300 yrd range (prob fair for average) covers about 58 acres of land from a stand (same assumptions)
On a 200 acre ranch, a deer can be on 99% of the given property and evade the bowhunter, or 71% for the rifle hunter. This assumes you could see/shoot thru trees or brush, and cover a 360degree circle around your position.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2400999
06/30/11 10:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564
rsquared
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564 |
the place i own land in was developed by the family that developed YO ranchlands. we have 2,000 acres total high fence and around 16 landowners. i own 120 acres and for those of you who have been out there with me, it is no canned hunt, nor can you predict what animals you will see on any given day.
while i would love to have 10,000 acres to myself, it wasnt in my budget. and long term, i want the land and the investment more than just a great deer lease, so i bought the smaller tract instead of leasing a massive place. being able to see Axis, red deer, fallow, black buck, aoudad, whitetail, etc.. on any given day is pretty cool. but then again i also like that i may not see a single axis or aoudad for weeks. it makes it hard to guarantee a hunt or a shot opportunity because i cant control whether the animals will be on my 120 acres that morning.
i hunted low fence all my life and have no problem with either lf or hf. for me it is all about the experience and who i hunt with. i prefer to give animals a fighting chance to outsmart me or outrun me... but this place has never left me feeling like i could walk up and kill anything i wanted. on 2,000 acres they can run for over a mile in any direction to get away.
or to give you acreage guys another relevant example. i took a few buddies out last year to play capture the flag. we only used 300 acres as our area. 2 hrs in we all gave up and came back. not a person had spotted another competitor in the entire 2 hrs. teamates didnt even spot each other. i know i am not a deer, but suffice it to say, how a piece of land is laid out and the cover it has is more relevant to huntability and fair chase than total acres.
Stuff my dad said in the deer blind
"I can dive deeper and come up drier" "did you do that?"
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rsquared]
#2401516
07/01/11 02:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
If I read you scenario correctly, I dont think I would have a problem with it. The owners of the tracts have boundaries they must stay within. The animal(s) are allowed to come and go across those boundaries thus making it fair chase. In other words, a hunter can not pursue an animal from one end or corner to the other end or corner. The animal has the opportunity to avoid a given hunter.
Would I participate, no. But can certainly understand someone taking part. Interesting question as I had never heard the arguement put in that light.
Let'em grow old
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2401534
07/01/11 02:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,190
ParkCountyElkDestroyer
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,190 |
the HF hates are also the guys that think CO, Nevada, ect are the only true Wilderness yet, a good chunk of the Hwys have state owned HF border them.
a lot of that is chain link stuck to the side of mountains to prevent rock slides You are wrong Rifleman. They actually are doing HF down the highways now to keep deer from being able to cross over. I have been fly fishing in Aspen this whole week and see it every day going down the high way.
Last edited by jensent; 07/01/11 02:42 AM.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: ParkCountyElkDestroyer]
#2401617
07/01/11 03:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
the HF hates are also the guys that think CO, Nevada, ect are the only true Wilderness yet, a good chunk of the Hwys have state owned HF border them.
a lot of that is chain link stuck to the side of mountains to prevent rock slides You are wrong Rifleman. They actually are doing HF down the highways now to keep deer from being able to cross over. I have been fly fishing in Aspen this whole week and see it every day going down the high way. I don't see it around gunnison or Jackson hole (with the exception of the elk refuge)... Just giving bobo a hard time bc they do lay it up the side of canyon walls along the hwy for the rock slides.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2401628
07/01/11 03:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322 |
You would give bobo a hard time
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: BMD]
#2401655
07/01/11 03:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
On rare occasion and days that end in Y
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2401675
07/01/11 03:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
On rare occasion and days that end in Y
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2401683
07/01/11 03:35 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322 |
On rare occasion and days that end in Y
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: BMD]
#2401698
07/01/11 03:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,190
ParkCountyElkDestroyer
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,190 |
On rare occasion and days that end in Y Does a Naturday count...?
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: ParkCountyElkDestroyer]
#2401804
07/01/11 04:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 70
wildtxn07
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 70 |
Pin em up and shoot em down!!!! Happy "HUNTING" fellas!!!
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: RanchoStarvo]
#2401811
07/01/11 04:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,896
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,896 |
I would. It's not like a white tail deer have a range of 10,000 acres anyways. Nope, but it's not like all those deer live in the middle of 10k acres and never try to travel further. I hunt on a 10k ranch (only lease 6500 plus 1200 bordering), but I can assure you there are plenty of deer that come and go from that ranch. It is not unusual to see the same buck on cameras that are 3-5 miles apart. 3 is actually pretty normal on our place. On the same note, there is no doubt that there are deer on our ranch that have never seen our borders. I have no issue with any legal hunting method. It isn't for everyone, but the people that get so defensive about HF should take a step back and look at what the perception of HF operations are. Pictures of 50 bucks, all over 200", in a pen that is about 25 acres, is not going to make most people think "man, that looks like tough hunting." When you walk into the lodge and there are 30 deer mounted on the wall with horns going everywhere, they are not going to think "man, I bet they had to hunt their butts off for those." Many of the shows on TV don't help the cause when they "stalk" a 190" whitetail with a bow and there are 2 cameramen, the hunter, the guide, an the hunters wife. There are not many LF operations that will call you and say "hey, there is a 220" deer coming in regular. Come on up and you can shoot him tomorrow." There also aren't many LF operations that can guarantee a 160" or better in a 3 day hunt. When the average hunter sees a price tag that goes on some of these deer, it is going to turn them away. How many people do you know that hate a car (Escalade is a good example), just because of the price? I realize that not every HF operation is ran the same way and most probably don't fall under any of the categories that I listed above, with the exception that ALL restrict deer movement. You add any of the factors listed above, on top of breeding programs, high supplementation of feed, importing of specific genetic traits and reports of someone growing a 300"+ deer that is worth over 1 million dollars...pretty sure there are people that are going to say there is no comparison between HF and LF. Many of these reasons is why B&C and P&Y say they dont compare. I don't think that taking a deer off a HF place makes that deer any less of a trophy for that person. The argument can expand into rifle vs. bow (which is why there is a B&C and a P&Y), or feeder vs stalking, or any other method that might be a little more challenging. There is a reason other people are more impressed by a 200" LF deer than a HF deer of the same caliber and there is a reason some people are more impressed by a deer shot with a bow than with a rifle. To each his own, but sometimes you have to be able to see where the other side is coming from.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: txshntr]
#2401830
07/01/11 05:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490
Toepuncher
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 490 |
txshntr that was very well said.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: BMD]
#2401835
07/01/11 05:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
You would give bobo a hard time It'll be on like donkey kong in a month or so when he's hoping to get drawn.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: Toepuncher]
#2401938
07/01/11 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322 |
txshntr that was very well said. X2
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2401939
07/01/11 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,322 |
You would give bobo a hard time It'll be on like donkey kong in a month or so when he's hoping to get drawn.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: BMD]
#2401991
07/01/11 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564
rsquared
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,564 |
txshntr that was very well said. X2 x3
Stuff my dad said in the deer blind
"I can dive deeper and come up drier" "did you do that?"
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: txshntr]
#2402066
07/01/11 01:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
I would. It's not like a white tail deer have a range of 10,000 acres anyways. Nope, but it's not like all those deer live in the middle of 10k acres and never try to travel further. I hunt on a 10k ranch (only lease 6500 plus 1200 bordering), but I can assure you there are plenty of deer that come and go from that ranch. It is not unusual to see the same buck on cameras that are 3-5 miles apart. 3 is actually pretty normal on our place. On the same note, there is no doubt that there are deer on our ranch that have never seen our borders. I have no issue with any legal hunting method. It isn't for everyone, but the people that get so defensive about HF should take a step back and look at what the perception of HF operations are. Pictures of 50 bucks, all over 200", in a pen that is about 25 acres, is not going to make most people think "man, that looks like tough hunting." When you walk into the lodge and there are 30 deer mounted on the wall with horns going everywhere, they are not going to think "man, I bet they had to hunt their butts off for those." Many of the shows on TV don't help the cause when they "stalk" a 190" whitetail with a bow and there are 2 cameramen, the hunter, the guide, an the hunters wife. There are not many LF operations that will call you and say "hey, there is a 220" deer coming in regular. Come on up and you can shoot him tomorrow." There also aren't many LF operations that can guarantee a 160" or better in a 3 day hunt. When the average hunter sees a price tag that goes on some of these deer, it is going to turn them away. How many people do you know that hate a car (Escalade is a good example), just because of the price? I realize that not every HF operation is ran the same way and most probably don't fall under any of the categories that I listed above, with the exception that ALL restrict deer movement. You add any of the factors listed above, on top of breeding programs, high supplementation of feed, importing of specific genetic traits and reports of someone growing a 300"+ deer that is worth over 1 million dollars...pretty sure there are people that are going to say there is no comparison between HF and LF. Many of these reasons is why B&C and P&Y say they dont compare. I don't think that taking a deer off a HF place makes that deer any less of a trophy for that person. The argument can expand into rifle vs. bow (which is why there is a B&C and a P&Y), or feeder vs stalking, or any other method that might be a little more challenging. There is a reason other people are more impressed by a 200" LF deer than a HF deer of the same caliber and there is a reason some people are more impressed by a deer shot with a bow than with a rifle. To each his own, but sometimes you have to be able to see where the other side is coming from. You Sir have a firm grip on reality, and most of the defense of the high fense places is all pretty much the same old song. It's the perception that all those TV shows, and hunting magazines with their advertisments of superior bred animals which has helped to cast that perception of high fence ranches. I personally don't care, and I have hunted on both sides of the high fence, but we as hunters have nobody to blame but ourselves for what the common hunter, or non hunting public sees when it is presented the way it is.
Thursday at 12:45 PM #33 Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rifleman]
#2402076
07/01/11 01:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318
jakhunter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 318 |
Its not the hunting behind a high fence that bothers me, but rather the fact that these "hunters" claim that its all genetics and age that produce these 200+ inch deer year after year. Yes it happens in places that are low fenced or not fenced at all, but not nearly as much.
Ever heard a Tom cat in love in the middle of the night? UGH!
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: jakhunter]
#2402124
07/01/11 01:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,901
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,901 |
Its not the hunting behind a high fence that bothers me, but rather the fact that these "hunters" claim that its all genetics and age that produce these 200+ inch deer year after year. Yes it happens in places that are low fenced or not fenced at all, but not nearly as much. Perhaps it happens "not as much" because many (most) of the bucks with 200" potential don't live long enough to reach it.
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: txshntr]
#2402255
07/01/11 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448
RanchoStarvo
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 448 |
I would. It's not like a white tail deer have a range of 10,000 acres anyways. Nope, but it's not like all those deer live in the middle of 10k acres and never try to travel further. I hunt on a 10k ranch (only lease 6500 plus 1200 bordering), but I can assure you there are plenty of deer that come and go from that ranch. It is not unusual to see the same buck on cameras that are 3-5 miles apart. 3 is actually pretty normal on our place. On the same note, there is no doubt that there are deer on our ranch that have never seen our borders. I have no issue with any legal hunting method. It isn't for everyone, but the people that get so defensive about HF should take a step back and look at what the perception of HF operations are. Pictures of 50 bucks, all over 200", in a pen that is about 25 acres, is not going to make most people think "man, that looks like tough hunting." When you walk into the lodge and there are 30 deer mounted on the wall with horns going everywhere, they are not going to think "man, I bet they had to hunt their butts off for those." Many of the shows on TV don't help the cause when they "stalk" a 190" whitetail with a bow and there are 2 cameramen, the hunter, the guide, an the hunters wife. There are not many LF operations that will call you and say "hey, there is a 220" deer coming in regular. Come on up and you can shoot him tomorrow." There also aren't many LF operations that can guarantee a 160" or better in a 3 day hunt. When the average hunter sees a price tag that goes on some of these deer, it is going to turn them away. How many people do you know that hate a car (Escalade is a good example), just because of the price? I realize that not every HF operation is ran the same way and most probably don't fall under any of the categories that I listed above, with the exception that ALL restrict deer movement. You add any of the factors listed above, on top of breeding programs, high supplementation of feed, importing of specific genetic traits and reports of someone growing a 300"+ deer that is worth over 1 million dollars...pretty sure there are people that are going to say there is no comparison between HF and LF. Many of these reasons is why B&C and P&Y say they dont compare. I don't think that taking a deer off a HF place makes that deer any less of a trophy for that person. The argument can expand into rifle vs. bow (which is why there is a B&C and a P&Y), or feeder vs stalking, or any other method that might be a little more challenging. There is a reason other people are more impressed by a 200" LF deer than a HF deer of the same caliber and there is a reason some people are more impressed by a deer shot with a bow than with a rifle. To each his own, but sometimes you have to be able to see where the other side is coming from. Yeah I know not all the deer live in the middle. Not disagreeing with you. My ranch is LF and I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by much larger tracts of LF or no fence ranches and farms. I would say HF is such the small minority, it's not worth the blood pressure to fight about. Now if I had a 200 acre ranch, surrounded by HF ranches, then I might be pissed, but I'm not in that situation. I think it would be very interesting to see a study on how the Texas highway system and interstate system has affected deer populations in certain counties. For instance, my family's ranch is south of DFW in between I35 and I45, I swear that has isolated the deer population and on the other side of both interstates, the deer seem much more abundant. But I am not a biologist or anything. We need to focus on these nuts http://www.peta.org/
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: jakhunter]
#2402273
07/01/11 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258 |
Its not the hunting behind a high fence that bothers me, but rather the fact that these "hunters" claim that its all genetics and age that produce these 200+ inch deer year after year. Yes it happens in places that are low fenced or not fenced at all, but not nearly as much. "hunters"? What exactly do you think causes the deer behind HF to be bigger if it's not genetics or age?
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Re: High Fence - trick question
[Re: rsquared]
#2402286
07/01/11 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,575
Leonardo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,575 |
txshntr that was very well said. X2 x3 x4 Wish I could have presented my opinion in such a manner. Well spoken.
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