OK, I learned something new today. Some of you may already be aware of this but it was news to me.

Recently a co-worker told me I could use his dads land to hunt on. He told me I could have free run of the place as long as I didn't disrespect the property and left it as I found it. Easy enough. I'm in!!!

Two weeks ago I drop some corn and set up a couple cams.
I go back today and find that one of my cams has been replaced with a business card from the local Game Warder saying to call him if I would like my cam back. WTF?? No biggie though.

I called him, we had a short chat and then set up a place to meet to get my cam back.

After we met, while we were talking the normal line of questioning you would expect took place.

He informed me that the guy who leases the property to harvest hay had called him when he found my cams.
He stated that the guy had been having problems with trespassers out there and thats why he called the Game Warden.

When I told him who granted me permission and what business I had out there he informed me that the property owners son has no legal wright to grant me access to the property since it is on lease.
He said that the only people that can allow me out there are the actual property owner and the guy who leases the pastures for hay.
If I wanted to continue to use the property, since it is currently on lease, I had to get with my buddies dad and draw up paperwork allowing me on the lease.
Makes sense I suppose, it was just news to me since my buddy said his dad said it was ok. I took him for his word assuming there wouldn't be any hiccups.

When I told my buddy about all this he was pissed!
I guess he thought he had more pull in the situation than he actually did since it his dads land and they all dove hunt and what not out there.
I tried to explain it all to him but he wasn't particularly receptive.
He told me I could go back down there and where to go to avoid any future issues. I graciously declined.
I had already been made aware by a fella with a gun and a badge and I'm not about to go side stepping him because my buddy said it was ok.
I told him the only way I'd go back down there is if he and his dad wanted to join me for a hunt.

Any input?

Also, the Game Warden couldn't have been any more professional, courteous and understanding to my dilemma.

I could be misreading but it sounds like the guy that leases it wouldn't necessarily have a problem with you bein there - but that he's just tryin to discourage random trespassers. Do you think that's the case or maybe I read it wrong.

I'm not sure.
I haven't talked to him.
This is just how it stands at the moment.
If I can get my buds dad to get a hold of the guy and talk to him things might change but as of now I'm just going to stay clear until I hear otherwise.

I'm going to keep working on it because it was 1,600 acres of awesome!

That's probly the smart thing to do. Chances are it won't be a big deal but ya never know. I'm just glad to hear that the game warden was a professional and couteous fella. Nothin ticks me off more than someone who thinks a uniform gives them the right to be a *rhymes with stick*.

You do not have to draw up paperwork. A very simple note signed by the "true" property owner with his signature and contact information is all you need. Keep that signed paper with you and you are good to go.

I would have the son go with you out to the lease to talk to the farmer to let him know it is kewl for you to be there BUT get the signed note from his dad......makes life a lot simplier!!!!!

Good luck and sounds awesome!

Actually the farmer who is leasing for planting/grazing is overstepping his bounds, since that is the only purpose of his lease.

If he says there are tresspassers and a problem, then he needs to take it up with the land owner and get on the same page with him first before contacting a Warden.

His rights go only as far as what the lease agreement states, and if he only has verbal permission from the landowner as an enforcer, then your permission should be just as good.

Talk to the landowner directly and get it ironed out.

That is my thought. Like the game Warden said the landowners son is not he one that can grant full permission it is the land owner that has final say so of who can or cannot be on their property and for what reasons

Seems like a formal introduction to all parties would have prevented the whole thing. I like to know exactly who is running around our place at all times.

It depends on how broad the wording of the hay growers lease is. A cattle guy tried this with us one time and a quick call to the land owner resolved the issue. Chances are the hay guy likes to do a little hunting himself.

I like your attitude on the whole thing.
Hope it works out for you!

This is why every lease should have a written contract about the do's and don'ts. Technically once the lease is signed for hunting purposes, unless otherwise stipulated the landowner gives up all rights regarding hunting and cannot impede upon the lessee upon his right to do so. I'm somewhat surprised that more breach of contract cases haven't been brought up, but some have, mostly to the detriment of the landowner. A good contract helps both parties understand where each is coming from.

that's kinda what I was thinking too. I know the lessee has his name and number on a sign posted near one of the many entrances. If I had any forethought yesterday I should have taken down the number and given the fella a call but its too far to drive down there again just for a phone number.
I'll try to go through my buds dad to get a hold of the guy, I know he'll have a way to get in touch with him....of he should.

I almost have the same problem with a small lease that I acquired a year ago. It seems that the land owners nephews and other distance kin think they have access and can give access to anyone else. One of the land owners nephews recently gave permission for his father in law to cut the hay on a small portion of the property without contacting his uncle (the land owner). The nephew has been doing this for at least 12 years and untill this year the non-resident land owner(uncle) never new anyone was cutting hay on his property. I have had to call the GW to talk with people that the nephew had given permission to camp on the property plus I have had to ask others that supposely had been given permission by other distance kin to be on the property. The land owner has been very nice about the situation and has talked to nephews but somehow it doesn't register that they don't have any rights to the property.

I'm not trying to be a smart arse, but with that many family and from your description of what is going on, I think it might be time for you to look for another lease. You can do that, or either have to deal with it from now on, and it's a lot less of a headache to just move on.

Keep your chin up I am from Canada and where I hunt, there is so much confusion about who is allowed on what properties...so frustrating!

the leaser is over stepping there, as well as the game warden. If its my land I would call the game warden and tell him he needed to come to me first, as well as have a talk with the leaser that is probably hunting there how it sounds. First the land owner should be the one to contact the warden, since a hay lease has nothing to to with hunting.

Bingo... I've run into this is the past. Sometimes farmers/ranchers leasing grazing rights "assume" they get hunting access as well. Just takes a multi-way converstion with all parties, and some documentation to get it straight.

I agree.

But I would also be sure to keep my cool and make it obvious to the landowner that you're a responsible and respectful person. In other words, don't come off as a "hot head".

And don't be surprised if the guy who is cutting hay, is not leasing it for hunting without the landowner knowing it. Happens all the time.

Good solid, and wise advice....

When I'm feeding I normally have a rifle of some kind in the truck. But come hunting season I don't carry any type of weapon that could be construed as being remotely able to kill a deer to avoid that assumption.

X1

You hit the nail on the head passthru!

The landowners son is the one at fault here. He has zero rights with giving permission to anyone to do anything on his dads property unless his dad has given him those rights. My kids know they would be in deep chit with me if they did that without my permission. These things happen often in families with property. Lack of communication between father and son here.

You are probably right, but who's to say the son hasn't already run this by his dad. Sounds to me like dad isn't even aware of the fact that the GW got involved. You need to talk to the dad and figure out what is going on. You might be one conversation away from an awesome hunting spot.

The GW seems like he was a nice enough fellow.

But he was positively wrong on one thing unless there is more to the story than you or us know.

Where he was wrong is the grazing leaser CANNOT give anyone permission to hunt any more than the son can. He leases the land for grazing and farming, he has no say-so otherwise.

He can also NOT deny anyone to hunt there, no permission is needed from him whatsoever, although it is polite to let him know you will be hunting there.

Don't know where the game warden came up with theory, because its wrong, unless the grazing leaser told him he had the hunting rights also, which is possible.

Bill