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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jaymz] #2197901 03/22/11 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: jaymz
Originally Posted By: Gravytrain
Interesting. What if I'm on my private pasture driving an unregistered lease truck drunk as heck and shooting ground squirrels; in addition my TX drivers license is currently REVOKED due to DWI. This is purely hypothetical, there's no squirrels living on my property.


Hypothetically, you are fine.

Realistically, there probably are a few squirrels living on your property, whether you know it or not.


This is great news, now I need to plot a course to my local bar using only my neighbors lawns!



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: Alpha&Omega] #2198071 03/22/11 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Alpha&Omega
Drink less and many things in your life will improve.


I am quiet happy with my life thank you. Also that was a bit of joke calling myself a drunk.


I was clearly missinformed when I stated it would be a felony.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: wp75169] #2198096 03/22/11 02:40 PM
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Alcohol and firearms in your vehicle is fine. Now, it's a well known fact that if there's a ladder in the bed of a truck and it's after 2pm the driver is most likely drunk. Therefore the ladder is probable cause for a stop.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: LandPirate] #2198100 03/22/11 02:42 PM
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Say what confused2


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: Gravytrain] #2198308 03/22/11 04:20 PM
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Man, your a true rebel! You would be fine since all of these things are only problems if they occur on public roadways or in public places. A fenced in pasture is private property that is not open to the public. You don't need a DL, registration or insurance on the vehicle, seatbelts, and you can drink and drive as much as you want.

I would like to close with the disclosure, I don't necessarily think its a good idea to drive around, drunk as a skunk, shooting at things, so I'm not saying to do this. Just trying to answer your questions.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: rockyraider] #2198374 03/22/11 05:03 PM
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So if I get stopped, have had a few, my AR is in the back seat and my 357 is stowed out of sight, am I committing a felony? Public road of course. Don't see where the .08 would play a factor, but I may be wrong.


Last edited by KBTXHunter; 03/22/11 05:03 PM.


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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: KBTXHunter] #2198378 03/22/11 05:05 PM
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I think the felony statement was made by me and I have since been corrected. It is not.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: rockyraider] #2198398 03/22/11 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: rockyraider
There is so much mis-information here its laughable. I am a Police Officer and I will set the record straight. Number one, if you are on private property, DWI and open container laws DO NOT apply. DWI has to be committed in a public place and a private pasture is not. You can be drunk as a skunk driving around your own property and it is not against the law. Open container only applies to a motor vehicle that is located on a public roadway. You can sit in your vehicle and drink beer all day in your own driveway, pasture, or whatever.



There is nothing in the DWI statute that makes having a rifle in the vehicle with you a felony if you are stopped and arrested for DWI. Rifles do not apply to the Unlawful Carry of Weapon statute which is what folks most commonly refer to when situations involving handguns and motor vehicles arise. It is against the law to have a CHL and carry your handgun while intoxicated. I believe that is a Class A misdemeanor.

In short, you are not in violation of ANY law that I am aware of, and certainly nothing in the penal code, by driving around your pasture checking cows while drinking a few beers and having a rifle in your truck.
up


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: dnttang] #2198824 03/22/11 09:22 PM
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what KBTX hunter said was pretty much what I was asking....my pastures are located about 8 miles apart on dirt and county roa ds. sometimes I have a non drinker friend drive me around, but most times I go out to feed, I stay til dark to shoot pigs or coyotes and beer sure does taste good that time of day. I am 57 and a professional beer drinker, old cowboy, philosopher. would sure hate to get in trouble this late in life.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: texaspatriot.308] #2199079 03/22/11 11:45 PM
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Discreation, officers have it, most of em use it.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: Sirrah243] #2199185 03/23/11 12:50 AM
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Just be sure you are nowhere near the property line and not shooting over fences and you will be fine.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: rockyraider] #2199189 03/23/11 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: rockyraider
There is so much mis-information here its laughable. I am a Police Officer and I will set the record straight. Number one, if you are on private property, DWI and open container laws DO NOT apply. DWI has to be committed in a public place and a private pasture is not. You can be drunk as a skunk driving around your own property and it is not against the law. Open container only applies to a motor vehicle that is located on a public roadway. You can sit in your vehicle and drink beer all day in your own driveway, pasture, or whatever.

There is nothing in the DWI statute that makes having a rifle in the vehicle with you a felony if you are stopped and arrested for DWI. Rifles do not apply to the Unlawful Carry of Weapon statute which is what folks most commonly refer to when situations involving handguns and motor vehicles arise. It is against the law to have a CHL and carry your handgun while intoxicated. I believe that is a Class A misdemeanor.

In short, you are not in violation of ANY law that I am aware of, and certainly nothing in the penal code, by driving around your pasture checking cows while drinking a few beers and having a rifle in your truck.


Have a question to add to this thread:

I'm a fairly new CHL, took my class a few months ago and just got my license. I clearly remember from my class (because it brought up a lot of questions and discussion) that my instructor said that if your a CHL and you have your weapon with you in public having one drink is a felony, period. His words were something like this: In Texas, if your a packing CHL and your blood alchohol level is .000000000000001, you are in violation and in big trouble.

We must have spent an hour on this subject alone. We went over all the possible scenarios but all were basically variations of the one below:

Your on your way home from work and stop for a beer (one beer) with the guys. You leave your gun in the car, and even leave it out of reach on the way home (like in a locked safe and in the trunk) . . . . . . . . doesn't matter, your still breaking the law. His basic answer for the guys in class that drink here and there was, if your going to stop off and drink a little that day, leave it at home in the safe. It's the only place you can have even the slightest amount of alcohol in your system and a gun in your vicinity. Did not make any difference if you drove, were a passenger , walked, rode a bike, hitch hiked, or had your wife pick you up. One beer, one gun, your done being a CHL forever!!

That discussion has never sat right with me since I took the class. I've asked around a little, but haven't got a clear and definate answer from anyone. Mainly because it seems that nobody knows for sure. I have already had to leave my pistol at home one night and drive back without at around 2 a.m. and didn't like it. I was at a poker game at a friends house. Had a few beers over a 5 hour period. Not Drunk for me. Not even tipsy.

Anyone have an answer, and maybe even proof? Maybe a link? I'm pretty sure my instructor is wrong, but before I have a sip I want to make sure!! cheers



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jeepthing] #2199224 03/23/11 01:10 AM
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There are 5000 pages of discussion of the rules for CHLs and alcohol at the Texas CHL Forum. Nothing has really been sorted out. I just live by the idea that if I shouldn't drive then I shouldn't carry.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jeepthing] #2199278 03/23/11 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: jeepthing
Originally Posted By: rockyraider
There is so much mis-information here its laughable. I am a Police Officer and I will set the record straight. Number one, if you are on private property, DWI and open container laws DO NOT apply. DWI has to be committed in a public place and a private pasture is not. You can be drunk as a skunk driving around your own property and it is not against the law. Open container only applies to a motor vehicle that is located on a public roadway. You can sit in your vehicle and drink beer all day in your own driveway, pasture, or whatever.

There is nothing in the DWI statute that makes having a rifle in the vehicle with you a felony if you are stopped and arrested for DWI. Rifles do not apply to the Unlawful Carry of Weapon statute which is what folks most commonly refer to when situations involving handguns and motor vehicles arise. It is against the law to have a CHL and carry your handgun while intoxicated. I believe that is a Class A misdemeanor.

In short, you are not in violation of ANY law that I am aware of, and certainly nothing in the penal code, by driving around your pasture checking cows while drinking a few beers and having a rifle in your truck.


Have a question to add to this thread:

I'm a fairly new CHL, took my class a few months ago and just got my license. I clearly remember from my class (because it brought up a lot of questions and discussion) that my instructor said that if your a CHL and you have your weapon with you in public having one drink is a felony, period. His words were something like this: In Texas, if your a packing CHL and your blood alchohol level is .000000000000001, you are in violation and in big trouble.

We must have spent an hour on this subject alone. We went over all the possible scenarios but all were basically variations of the one below:

Your on your way home from work and stop for a beer (one beer) with the guys. You leave your gun in the car, and even leave it out of reach on the way home (like in a locked safe and in the trunk) . . . . . . . . doesn't matter, your still breaking the law. His basic answer for the guys in class that drink here and there was, if your going to stop off and drink a little that day, leave it at home in the safe. It's the only place you can have even the slightest amount of alcohol in your system and a gun in your vicinity. Did not make any difference if you drove, were a passenger , walked, rode a bike, hitch hiked, or had your wife pick you up. One beer, one gun, your done being a CHL forever!!

That discussion has never sat right with me since I took the class. I've asked around a little, but haven't got a clear and definate answer from anyone. Mainly because it seems that nobody knows for sure. I have already had to leave my pistol at home one night and drive back without at around 2 a.m. and didn't like it. I was at a poker game at a friends house. Had a few beers over a 5 hour period. Not Drunk for me. Not even tipsy.

Anyone have an answer, and maybe even proof? Maybe a link? I'm pretty sure my instructor is wrong, but before I have a sip I want to make sure!! cheers



Here is how it was explained to me, so dont attack me....using your senario (if you have a chl). Before you enter the bar you need to make sure your pistol is not readily dischargable. meaning that the UNLOADED gun be in the trunk or locked in a safe away from any bullets. Once you have 0.000000001% BAL The pistol can not be easily accessable (ie in your console).

I follow the leave it at home if Im getting drunk method myself.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: raiderJ] #2199384 03/23/11 02:05 AM
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No attacking raiderJ, I appreciate the response. Just looking for the truth.

Forgot to say that my "scenario" that I asked in class went like this:

You work in downtown Dallas but live in McKinney. Easily a 45 min run with no traffic. Your boss gives you Maverick's tickets and says have fun. Your gun is on person or in car. You'd like to have a beer at the game, maybe 2. What do you do? His answer was clear, "run by the house and drop it off". For him, unloading the gun and storing in seperate area's was not an option. Neither was just one beer. In his "interpretation" of the law you had to either skip the game, drink sprite at the game, or go by the house.

I just don't buy it. Not logical. I like the unload and carry seperate in trunk option.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jeepthing] #2199398 03/23/11 02:09 AM
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I really see no reason to have a conceal carry nowadays in Texas with the Castle law and the trouble you can get into for having it...just not worth it to me. I dont need to carry anywhere but my pickup anyways.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: texaspatriot.308] #2199524 03/23/11 02:53 AM
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From what we were told when we took our CHL course, you can have a few drink when you are carrying. Just look for the signs that say you can or cannot have a concealed gun on their property. The .08 rule does not apply to CHL holders. From what we were told its up to the LEO to determine if we are to intoxicated to carry a loaded firearm. Then he said its kinda of a grey area and for the most part just use common sense...lol!!!!


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: MHsieh] #2199565 03/23/11 03:04 AM
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Was just searching the CHL Forum that someone suggested and found this. Goes along with what you said Pantera424.

First off, I Am Not A Lawyer. However, the Texas state statutes have two definitions for intoxication. The first is not having the normal use of physical or mental skills due to alcohol consumption, a controlled substance, a drug, or a combination of two or more of these substances.

The second definition is having a blood alcohol content (BAC) of .08 percent or higher. A driver can not use the defense that the intoxicating substance was prescription medication. Any substance, legal or illegal, that renders a person unable to drive safely may lead to a DWI charge.

And, since there is no clear definition for intoxication for carrying, then you have to assume it means the same for that since it is stated in the statutes elsewhere.

So, IMO, you can be deemed intoxicated by a law enforcement officer under the first definition, even without being .08 whether driving or carrying.


Never knew there were 2 definitions on "intoxicated" and the first is definately a grey area.

Sounds like a beer with my wings is ok. Just have to be smart about it.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: RanchoStarvo] #2199574 03/23/11 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: RanchoStarvo

You can have alcohol in your system and drive as long as you are under .08 and aren't a danger to anyone so I'm not sure about the felony that wp75169 is talking about, or how having a gun in the car would change the situation, but I'm no expert.
.

I believe you can still be cited for DUI even if you're under .08. If you are .08 or over, it creates a presumption that you are intoxicated. Being under .08 does not create a presumption that you are sober.

And, just my opinion, but, you've got to be an idiot to drink ANY alcohol and then handle a loaded weapon, regardless of whether you're on public roads or private property, concealed carrying, hunting, whatever...




Last edited by ipscshooter; 03/23/11 03:12 AM.
Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: ipscshooter] #2199585 03/23/11 03:13 AM
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That's what the Standard Field Sobriety Tests are for


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: ipscshooter] #2199592 03/23/11 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: ipscshooter
[quote=RanchoStarvo]

And, just my opinion, but, you've got to be an idiot to drink ANY alcohol and then handle a loaded weapon, regardless of whether you're on public roads or private property, concealed carrying, hunting, whatever...



true enough, but I see where the initial curiousity came in


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jaymz] #2199604 03/23/11 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: jaymz


This is from the concealed carry statute. One of the provisions states:

Quote:
"(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed."


A violation is a Class A misdemeanor.

Chapter 49 of the Penal Code defines "Intoxicated" as follows:

Quote:
"Intoxicated" means:

(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or

(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.


It really doesn't take much to meet "A." All the officer has to say is "I smelled alcohol on his breath, and based on my training and my professional experience, he did not have the normal use of his mental or physical faculties." You can get tagged for public intoxication after a half a beer and a smart-azz comment...


Last edited by ipscshooter; 03/23/11 03:23 AM.
Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: raiderJ] #2199748 03/23/11 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: raiderJ
Originally Posted By: ipscshooter
[quote=RanchoStarvo]

And, just my opinion, but, you've got to be an idiot to drink ANY alcohol and then handle a loaded weapon, regardless of whether you're on public roads or private property, concealed carrying, hunting, whatever...



true enough, but I see where the initial curiousity came in


Not sure if this quite qualifies me as an "idiot" or not, just saying I'd like to know what's legal and what's not. I do enjoy a certain drinks with certain meals at specific favorite restaurants. And if I've had "one" and I'm on my way home, get a flat on a dark road, I'd like to know that I can (or cannot) have my pistol there for protection. Honestly I'd feel like more of an "idiot" if I was out at midnight on a dark road (sitting duck) with my plastic CHL license and nothing to defend myself, drink or no drink.

Not sure what you mean exactly by "handling a loaded weapon" either. Not like I'm talking about drinking a case and then balancing it on my nose!! Gimmie a break man, get off your soap box before you fall and break your hip. Just talking about carrying IWB or in truck console.



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Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: jeepthing] #2199776 03/23/11 05:10 AM
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Thought I defined handling a loaded weapon pretty well... "concealed carrying, hunting, whatever..."

I haven't had alcohol in over twenty five years... since I had kids... I consider it a waste of time, money and life, and have had close friends and family seriously injured by drunk drivers, and know folks who experience serious personality changes even after their first drink. I've got kids to set an example for, and a family who rely on me to be there for them 24/7. But, if I did both drink and concealed carry, and I was going to be anywhere where I thought I might need to be packing, I'd exercise a bit of discretion and order a diet coke with dinner, regardless of how "good" a margarita might taste with the fajitas. The definition of "intoxicated" is sufficiently vague to get you in trouble, even if you're not falling down drunk.

If, God forbid, you get into a situation where you need to use your weapon, it will not help in the subsequent legal proceedings if the investigating officer notes that you had the smell of alcohol on your breath.


Re: Firearms and alcohol in vehicle question [Re: Gravytrain] #2199779 03/23/11 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gravytrain
Originally Posted By: jaymz
Originally Posted By: Gravytrain
Interesting. What if I'm on my private pasture driving an unregistered lease truck drunk as heck and shooting ground squirrels; in addition my TX drivers license is currently REVOKED due to DWI. This is purely hypothetical, there's no squirrels living on my property.


Hypothetically, you are fine.

Realistically, there probably are a few squirrels living on your property, whether you know it or not.


This is great news, now I need to plot a course to my local bar using only my neighbors lawns!

rofl



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