Here’s a thought why not develop a Hunting coop for corn and other agricultural products

Feeding deer and other wildlife is costly and I have seen some posts that dabble with the idea of creating cheaper corn prices for themselves. I’ve done it; we filled up the brother-in-laws F350 with 3000lbs of corn straight from the ole combine, it was cheap but it wasn’t too fun putten it all in sacks or barrels and took forever.

What about the idea of having hunters buy into, well essentially a grain storage operation of some sorts, an operation that does the proper aeration and disease testing and what not. I always hear how the farmers feel like they get the raw end of the deal when selling their harvest, so why not buy direct from them and sell to hunters at cost. I mean at cost of the operation, that is.

Or, another approach, have a collective group of hunters use there massive buying power to purchase in bulk and rent warehouse for distribution?

The same idea could also be applied to buying feeders, hunting accessories or anything,

This could be the opportunity for hunters to come together for the benefit of many hunters, farmers and probably more.

Just think what kind of purse hunters could put together for 5.00 or 10.00 buy in, per person. It may collectively add up to buying our corn or protein prices at a much better rate than we currently see.....

Sounds like a good idea, but would probably work about as well as a group of guys going in together to buy a piece of property to hunt on?

Yea, you maybe right. I know that it would not be easy but there are ways to do it, as there are Coops in many sectors, farming, banking, utilities and much more. As long as you could form a group with the common objective to collect resources for the good of the group, you could begin such an organization. In the beginning the members may have to expend more effort to get things rolling but ultimately you could form a board of directors, a treasury and actually pay everyone for their work. It doesn’t happen overnight but it does start with an idea, input, work and more work but it could become an effective tool for hunters to proactively impact the cost of our sport.

Good idea, but lots of logistics involved. Where would you store the corn? A 14 ton, GSI, bin goes for $5K. You also have to be able to move the product or you will end up with a weevil infestation that will eat your savings. A bagging machine, manual, add another $5K. Bags, thirty one cents each. Most, you can use twice but there is always some maniac out there who is in a hurry to fill a feeder and cuts/slashes the bag because he is in a hurry or can't figure out the way the string works. Fuel and transportation costs cut into savings real quickly.

Like I said, good idea, depending on where it would be set up I would be willing to help, but set up ain't gonna be cheap.

If it was a simple as everyone thinks there would be a lot of farmers set up to sell direct to the hunters and other end users of the grain. First the costs of equipment, the grain bins, the augers, dryers etc. are not cheap.

Then there is the cooperation of the members, unless it is run by paid people most of the cooperatives work will fall on just a few of the members, and they will get discouraged very quickly when they see who is doing the work

Electric coops, and the other coops are almost always ran by paid employees, which will negate the savings compared to being operated by the members.

Even local health food cooperatives usually have 1 or 2 par time paid members that order, sort and distribute the food.

The savings can only be there if the members are willing to give up their time and then if you add the value of your time the savings are wiped out.

My pennies worth of thoughts on this.

DeerFeeder,

you have some good points there are issues that would need to be resolved, or should I say opportunities (-: I figured throwen out the idea might get some folks thinken bout how to do this. I am sure that we have a resourceful and creative faction that could put their time and ideas together to make something happen. Just think if we spent ½ the time we spend on this and other web sites working at the Hunting COOP, say one in each of the larger metropolitan areas DFW, Houston, SA and hopefully in Austin, then we could give every convenient store that sells corn some serious competition. (-:

Dogcatcher,

Also good response; you are probably right. There will likely need to be folks that are paid but you never know, there’s a lot of folks that don’t seem to have a life and are always arguing with people on forums, you might find a glut of volunteers.
The hunting COOP could even become the hang out for outdoorsy folks and they have to run people off at night to get them to go home to wives or girlfriends, or verse visa……

I've actually been thinking of doing this. I've got more land than I care to farm now. All it work take would be extra storage facilities. Instead of bagging feed you could buy one of those generator powered feeder buggies and use it. The only extra expenses would be having your seed cleaned and dried if needed. Been thinking about it but its some major expense just for the grain hoppers. i'm checking on some USDA loans and grants to help fund this.

Not a good idea folks. There isn't much margin in the grain business. Don't even think about putting up facilities for this. Our local coop will sell you corn for 16 cents a bushel more than they buy it for. How many bushels are you planning on handling? 100,000? Well, your gross margin is $16,000. Put up a bin, dryer, scale, electric bill and wages..it ain't gonna fly. Your smart move...contact an elevator that's centrally located..set up a grain bank account(you buy grain in the elevator)...arrange to have it bagged in bulk...pick up a truck load at a time and store it in your own barn/warehouse...and deal it out from there. Maybe arrange delivery to the hunters. But I think you'll find...that bagged stuff at the store ain't so expensive afterall.

bayourat, grain buggies these days are running anywhere from about $7K to $11K. The cheap ones are the auger versions and the high dollar ones are the air blown ones. Bucklessbob is right, there is not alot of "net" doing corn/protein. When I bag bulk it costs me labor and $.31 a bag. Even before labor costs that leaves me a total of $.69 a fifty pound bag. It has to be volume.

Deerfeeder,
Would it make sense for the grain elevators to rent the buggies to prospective off-takers and sell the corn/protein at a fair value (noting avoided costs of bagging)? Transportation costs would be on the off-taker.

Off-takers would just need to have the capacity to take a fully buggy (say 5 tons) and bring it back empty.

The elevators could sell at a slight premium over fair market value (for bulk) and it would still be a savings to the hunters or outfitters.

What do you think? (or is already being done?)

SBR

sbr, I was referring to the feed trailers made and sold by All Seasons, Bruton, and Easy Feed. I think you are talking about the big buggies with the floatation tires. I suspect renting them would be about the same as bagging but I'm not sure. If you use the feed trailers it is a breeze to fill a feeder and move on. The hitch in the whole thing is that it takes forever to get to the next feeder. I'm not sure one of the big buggies would even be able to go some of the places I feed I also don't think my F 250, diesel, 4 X 4 would pull more than the two ton loads I pull now. There are new trailers (goose neck) out there that you can haul 4 plus tons in, but you would need a much bigger truck to make it up the loose rock hills I deal with. If you are in relatively flat land with semi decent dirt roads they would be a great idea. One place I feed is 50 miles away, I fill two 2,000 pound feeders and have to go back and reload. I change oil about once a month and a set of tires lasts about 8 months if I'm lucky. Like I said originally, a good idea but lots of logistics involved in it. I'm retired from the gov't which gives me the luxury of having this business because I do not make enough to take care of house, vehicles, kids in college, indoor toilet, etc. on what feeding brings in. It pays its way, helps with taxes, and lets me write off (depriciate) certain toys.

Don't give up on the dream though. The feed companies are calling the shots and not the hunters. Good luck.

Here's an easier method and it will only cost you some time. Get on as many hunting forums as possible and ask as many hunters as possible to write their congressmen and senators to tell them to stop ethenol subsidies. Ethenol, as you know, is made from corn. The diversion of corn from feed to ethenol is what's driving the price up. And it's only going to get worse.

Since the ethanol point was brought up, here is something that goes right along with it. I've been doing some leg work on this hunting COOP idea and ran across this article "Grain Storage Gone Wild
Ethanol has producers scrambling for a place to put their grain. Building bins on your farm is an obvious solution. But is that the best long-term option?" If the trend keeps going up not, so will the corn prices.

http://www.progressivefarmer.com/tabid/1282/Default.aspx

After the read it makes me recognize, even more, that corn and feed prices will continue to rise and cause a pinch on Hunters wallets. This is additional justification to begin developing our own tools and feed sources.

Besides ethanol, steel prices are up and staying there and I don't see fuel prices going down anytime soon. All of those will continue contribute to feed prices

I wanted to expand on an idea from “Bucklessbob77”, as he suggested “contact an elevator that's centrally located..set up a grain bank account(you buy grain in the elevator)...”, I agree, this may be a good approach. There are still logistics and other things that need to be worked on but here some information.

Okay, say we (I do have a mouse in my pocket) purchase corn direct from grainery transport to our facility, where we bag and palletize the corn. Distribution and labor I assume will be done by volunteers, for now.

Here’s a quote I received from a company that provides bagging solutions.

A small bagging operation could look something like this:

Item: Price
37 Cu Ft Capacity self standing Hopper $4,750.00
Bagger w/scale that can feed open mouth 30-100lb plastic or paper bags. $2,394.00
Mounting Pedestal with a Sewing head (4Bags per minute, paper) $1,495.00
8’ Bag closing conveyor w/ back rail and variable speed control $3,750.00
Total 12,389.00

I think we can reduce the above cost by building our own large hopper. In fact, this can be built within the capability of an average welder/fabricator; I weld so I know we could do this. Additionally, I even know where an old one is that we could repair and transport to our destination. We could also build our own conveyor system, or just have a set of rollers, much cheaper. That would bring the bagging operation cost down to approx ~ 4,000 + cost of Hopper + parts for building our own conveyor system. Say 6,000 for bagging operation.

This may only be a fraction of what we need but to keep it simple say we purchase corn from the local grainery, corn prices are a commodity and the prices do fluctuate. At the local grain and coop in Taylor corn sells for $6.90 per 100lbs. We buy whatever amount we desire but lets say for purpose of discussion we buy enough for one pallet, 2000lbs, that’s 6.90x20 = $138.00 for cost of feed.

Note: If we could by direct from the farmer, they are as of today only paid $3.00 per bushel, that’s 56lbs or about 6.00 per 112 lbs so could get it for about 80 or 90 cents cheaper per ~ 100lbs

Say we take the 2000lbs and bag it with our above system. We yield 40-50lb bags for a cost of ~ 3.45 per bag. The members of said hunting coop can then purchase corn at this price, provided they bought into the coop.

According to my financial analysts (the wife) we would need to sell 1739 bags in order to recoup the original investment, if we charged $3.45 per bag (with off the shelf prices at $6.90 per bag). It depends on the demand and how many bags you expect to sell each month as to how long this will take.

Don't forget bags are going to cost you money. I don't know if 48 bags a minute should be 4 to 8 bags a minute, which is more realistic. You would have to be real fast to do 48 bags a minute. We are talking blur here. You also need to include the cost of thread to close your bags which is a little less than 150 bucks for a case of spools. With a fixed head you may get a better price on bigger spools.

No matter, I think you are at least in the right ball park so far.

Deerfeeder, how right you. Did you guys want bags with that? oh, well that will be extra charge No, I meant to put that in there. I think we can do better but the guy quoted me 38 cents per bag. Ouch, We may have to start a bag recyling program, cause that brings up to $3.73 per bag + thread like you said. So, we are probably around 3.75 or 3.80 per bag.

This particular bagger is the standard bagger without air options, etc. but will do 2-3 bags per min with only one person operating it. With the optional air and optimum set up, it can fill a bag in just 6 seconds, so if you had more man power, he claims 2 people can easily acheive 6 to 7 bags per min. The more people the better.

I am going to play the part of the devils advocate.

Most of those hoppers and baggers that I have seen at various grain elevators and Farmers Coops need electricity. Another cost per bag to be figured. Now where are you planning locating this operation? Cannot be in town unless in a commercially zoned area. Rent to property owner?

The peoples that haul the corn from the elevator/farmer etc. need to be reimbursed for their expenses, and that cost added to the corn.

Spoilage, shrinkage and just plain missing corn. Trust me in a grain operation there will be spoilage, shrinkage and just plain old missing corn from the time it is bought until it is bagged and distributed.

Location? Where to locate this facility? Most of the THF members are in the DFW area, even driving from east Dallas to west Ft Worth is a pretty good drive. Sirhuntalot, you are in Taylor, I am in Abilene or Rowena depending on whatever. Then the others are spread out from El Paso to Texarkana and from Dalhart to Brownsville. If you have to make a round trip of 50 miles to get the corn that cost for the individual has to be factored in as part of his cost. Then there is the extra cost of fuel to carry it to the lease compared to buying locally near the lease. A lot cheaper fuel wise with an empty truck versus a full load.

Now assuming all volunteer labor. As in any organization there is those lazy no good sorry individuals that will be there to pick up the corn but to work, will never happen. Do they get the same rate as the people that worked to get the corn, bagged it and so forth? Or does everyone get the same cost per bag regardless of their donated labor?

Donated labor versus cost saved. Now if you save $2 per bag and you get 100 bag that means you saved $200, but if you put in 40 hours of extra driving time, bagging time, loading and unloading, and various other corn related time that means you worked one 40 hour week to save $200. That is less than minimum wage. But that lazy sorry no good worthless piece of stuff that never hit a lick gets the same deal he just saved $200.

Just something else to think about.

Now this is the way I used to do it. Had 4 55 gallon barrels with lids, went to the elevator near the farm and they filled them up, drove about 12 miles and filled the feeders, then off loaded what was left. No extra work, cheaper than bagged corn. And since I am the old fart I sat in the pickup as that lazy no good for nothing while my son and nephews filled the feeders, but then sometimes I just waited at the cabin for them to do all of the work. It hard to watch people work and get sweaty and then ride around in the pickup with them.

The bagger you are talking about sounds like one made by Express Scale Parts JEM Inc. If it is one guy can do it but it's a load. Filling the bag is the machines job, you need the man there to take the bag off and put a new one on. With practice whoever is doing it will get faster. My gross weight scale is manual and 3 of my daughters can do over a ton an hour including taking the bag off the gross weight scale and weighing it on a cerified scale before sewing it and stacking. The slow down is refilling the hopper your bagger is attached to. You waste about 15 minutes waiting to refill and start again. Thirty eight cents a bag is not that outrageous. If you buy a couple hundred thousand bags they will give you a price break but then you have a bag storage problem, because they take up a lot of space.

Dogcatcher is right about the spillage waste etc. You are gonna have mice and insects, if you can't move your corn fast enough you are gonna have weevils. No getting around it. You have to be careful with pesticides because some will leave residue on the corn. Kinda like worming deer, it's good for them, but you have to wait X amount of time before the meat is safe.

About the no goods Dogcatcher is talking about, me and the girls call them Blisters cuz they don't show up until the work is done. Just my opinion from learning all this stuff the hard way.

Good we need that to identify problems (challenges) and create a real solution. I don’t have all the answers, just trying to help recognize that the feed ain’t gonna get any cheaper from here on out and hunters carry an awful lot of the financial burden, as it is. Hunters rarely collectivly come together for a comon cause, normally you are very dedicated to your fellow dear hunting partners but its time we banded together and changed things.

I think what we are doing is brainstorming at a high level, the numbers, the location and many other factors are just now being discussed, nothing is written in stone. This is an idea. The important thing is to engage folks and make something beneficial for hunters. I see a lot of bitching on here but few, even attempt to resolve problems; this is our chance to contribute ideas, time, money and whatever it takes to “getrdun”.

I do realize the likely area to get its first “Hunters Coop” would be DFW area as the mere hunter population comes from that area. Again, I am trying to spawn an idea. DFW has the folks that can make this happen, next probably Houston, then maybe Austin.

Your addition to this thread means that you do care; there are many problems that arise as you point out “there is those lazy no good sorry individuals that will be there to pick up the corn but to work, will never happen. Do they get the same rate as the people that worked to get the corn, bagged it and so forth? Or does everyone get the same cost per bag regardless of their donated labor?” You ever see "A Few Good Men"? We can order a code red on them, no just kidding. To me, that is beyond the scope of this conversation.

I'm not the spokesperson or leader of this. I am throwing it out there for it to develop on its own; the idea is very powerful. If someone would like to take the bull by the horns, please do it. Just like anything, the idea will need people that take the lead and people to work behind the scenes… I’m generally a behind the scenes guy myself but whatever it takes…….

It would be great if you could put this together and make it work. The feed companies are calling the shots. In this thread and another one on the forum you can see the huge difference in price for a fifty pound bag around the state. Some of the smaller stores have outrageous prices which I'm pretty sure is at least in part due to transportation charges. There maybe a little gouging going on too. But, it costs me a bunch to get 25 tons of corn delivered to me. It's worse on 12 ton loads. I had one guy charge me $3.00 a mile for a trip of less than 100 miles for a 12 ton load.

With the power of a coop or several around the state there is reason to believe you can make them bring the prices down. It would work on protein too.

It would be great to see it put together as its a huge endeavor and is not going to start overnight. Change typically happens in moderation, so we may be able to develope something at one site and then learn from how it developes. It could be the model of how to do it again, I dunno....

I have to agree it is a great idea, but to make it work will take a lot of work of a few dedicated people that WANT it to work. Back when I was on leases, we got together with hunters from other area leases and bought in bulk and saved a few dollars when we filled feeders. But this was a case of one guy bought all the corn in bulk and delivered it to the gates of each lease, he was paid for the corn, his other expenses and TIME. About an hour per load. If you wanted in on the deal you had to be there to put your corn in 5 gallon plastic buckets or find someone to do it for you.

This way it worked because you had everyone wanting the cheaper corn, the savings were actually minimal but we also got a lot of other things done the days we were at the lease.

On our own place, I preferred my 55 gallon barrels and was not restricted to when everyone else wanted to gather at the lease. Son and nephew furnished labor while I furnished the cabin, electricity and so forth, actually that corn probably cost me $10 a 100.

It also helped that I was from the area and my family had been in the area since the late 1800, so most of the elevator owners and feed store owners etc knew me and most of my kin.